Fake 116520?

[tng11]

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=754697

The member has been banned - they had recently listed a 116500LN. I'm not sure the reason, but the pictures of that one were a bit suspicious to me when I saw the ad.

Anyways, the 116520 in the ad above is suspect to me. The tell to me is the "ROLEX" font. That bold font where the "O" in Rolex is shaped like an "O", as far as I'm aware has not been seen on 116520s, and only exists on the 116500 dials, which would obviously have black subdials.

It should look more like this - as late as 2016 before the introduction of the 116500:



Judging by the poster's history, it looks like it may have been traded to another TRF member!

[GLADIATOR]

LOL
First I studies your watch photo and could not see anything suspicious - then I read your remarks.
I can not even properly see the banned member watch - useless fuzzy photos - only a fool would buy from those.
Box looks very fake to me

[tng11]

The TRF member here has been notified. The watch is a fake. The member in question traded a IWC Timezoner and Panerai 615 for the watch in question.

It came to my attention through a thread on the Canadian Watch Collector forums.

[j7ols]

Yes, I'm the fool.
I traded my IWC Timezoner and Panerai 615 for the 116520 that 'Jimmy' had listed.
He contacted me about a trade.
Deal seemed good to me, he even sent the watch first, shipped overnight with Fedex and a return label to send my watches back to him. I did look at it and honestly seemed fine.
The shipping address was:
JIMMY PERSUAD
1 PLACE VILLE MARIE
MONTREAL, PQ CA H3B3Y1
514-886-0752
When mine were delivered to him there was a delivery exception and Fedex called him to go and pick them up as address was incorrect.
I've been texting him on that number but now it is disconnected.
Obviously looking back there were lots of red flags. I was only suspicious when he agreed to sell me his 116500 for $15k...
If anyone can help locate him I would appreciate it or if someone knows of a (legal/borderline legal) service I could employ to get my watches back I would appreciate it.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by j7ols

Yes, I'm the fool.
I traded my IWC Timezoner and Panerai 615 for the 116520 that 'Jimmy' had listed.
He contacted me about a trade.
Deal seemed good to me, he even sent the watch first, shipped overnight with Fedex and a return label to send my watches back to him. I did look at it and honestly seemed fine.
The shipping address was:
JIMMY PERSUAD
1 PLACE VILLE MARIE
MONTREAL, PQ CA H3B3Y1
514-886-0752
When mine were delivered to him there was a delivery exception and Fedex called him to go and pick them up as address was incorrect.
I've been texting him on that number but now it is disconnected.
Obviously looking back there were lots of red flags. I was only suspicious when he agreed to sell me his 116500 for $15k...
If anyone can help locate him I would appreciate it or if someone knows of a (legal/borderline legal) service I could employ to get my watches back I would appreciate it.

Interesting - he either knew it was a very good fake (and you would not check it) or he did not know.
That said why would he have given a false delivery address - very strange

[tng11]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Interesting - he either knew it was a very good fake (and you would not check it) or he did not know.
That said why would he have given a false delivery address - very strange

The street address is valid, it's a giant office tower in downtown Montreal (which should be the first red flag, as a office tower like that would have a suite/floor number). The postal code doesn't match with the street address, however. The scammer knows in these cases, FedEx will discover the address is invalid and route it for pickup to their depot, which is exactly the scammer's M.O. as it doesn't ship to their real address and you can't trace their actual whereabouts. The name is fake, the package is picked up with a fake ID.

This scam relies on the victim not realizing the watch is fake and gaining confidence of the victim by sending the watch first, and unfortunately, it seems the fake in this situation was good enough.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by tng11

The street address is valid, it's a giant office tower in downtown Montreal (which should be the first red flag, as a office tower like that would have a suite/floor number). The postal code doesn't match with the street address, however. The scammer knows in these cases, FedEx will discover the address is invalid and route it for pickup to their depot, which is exactly the scammer's M.O. as it doesn't ship to their real address and you can't trace their actual whereabouts. The name is fake, the package is picked up with a fake ID.

This scam relies on the victim not realizing the watch is fake and gaining confidence of the victim by sending the watch first, and unfortunately, it seems the fake in this situation was good enough.

thanks the explanation
FYI
Thats the latest style fakes with reverse engineered movement

[tng11]

Originally Posted by j7ols

Yes, I'm the fool.
I traded my IWC Timezoner and Panerai 615 for the 116520 that 'Jimmy' had listed.
He contacted me about a trade.
Deal seemed good to me, he even sent the watch first, shipped overnight with Fedex and a return label to send my watches back to him. I did look at it and honestly seemed fine.
The shipping address was:
JIMMY PERSUAD
1 PLACE VILLE MARIE
MONTREAL, PQ CA H3B3Y1
514-886-0752
When mine were delivered to him there was a delivery exception and Fedex called him to go and pick them up as address was incorrect.
I've been texting him on that number but now it is disconnected.
Obviously looking back there were lots of red flags. I was only suspicious when he agreed to sell me his 116500 for $15k...
If anyone can help locate him I would appreciate it or if someone knows of a (legal/borderline legal) service I could employ to get my watches back I would appreciate it.

Again, I am really sorry that this happened to you.

It may help to post the serial numbers of the watches concerned and as much identifying information as possible. It's possible they could come up for sale again.

I would also be reporting this to your local police and see if you can get in touch with the Montreal police. I am assuming no money changed hands - so the only point the scammer may have exposed their true identity was when they picked up the FedEx package, security footage of which may already have disappeared and he may have been covered up with a mask in these times anyways.

I would report the watches to the manufacturers as stolen as well. There's some hope that they may show up when they are sent in for servicing.

[tng11]

I should also mention, this scammer was pretty brazen. On the Canadian Watch Collector forums he had done "incoming" threads of both Daytonas, and claimed he got the call for the black Daytona 2 weeks after having a good chat with a Montreal AD. He also posted an incoming thread showing off the stolen IWC.

Earlier, he attempted to trade the 116520 to a dealer up here in Canada, but ghosted him when the dealer asked for additional information about whether there was a warranty card or not.

[j7ols]

Post-deal, the f*cker even sent me a pic of him wearing the IWC and told him how good it looked!!! Same location/room as all the other pics.
I feel truly sick to my stomach.
I took pics of the 116520 module, its very good. Now I know its the regulator arm on the balance wheel that gives it away.

[Dan417]

He tried to trade to me as well. He refused to ship first. Wondering why he shipped first to you. Always get it inspected if you don’t know what you’re looking for. Sorry to hear of your troubles. Make sure to file a lost/stolen report on your other watches should they reappear somewhere

[j7ols]

Panerai serial # OP7025BB1740967
IWC serial # 6090543

[tng11]

Originally Posted by j7ols

Post-deal, the f*cker even sent me a pic of him wearing the IWC and told him how good it looked!!! Same location/room as all the other pics.
I feel truly sick to my stomach.
I took pics of the 116520 module, its very good. Now I know its the regulator arm on the balance wheel that gives it away.

Do you have the pics he sent? May be worth taking a look if there is any EXIF data in them which could identify his actual location. I tried the pictures he's posted and there's nothing in them, Tapatalk scrubs the EXIF data.

[j7ols]

I did check for any data, even the ones he texted, nothing.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by j7ols

Panerai serial # OP7025BB1740967
IWC serial # 6090543

STOLEN WATCHES

Panerai serial # OP7025BB1740967
IWC serial # 6090543

[Nikrnic]

A member sine July 2020... Selling a Daytona.... That alone is a yellow flag.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[watchnut100]

Perhaps he doesn’t know himself? The Daytona looks pretty convincing

[buybeach]

Hello:

The member in question messaged me regarding an item I am selling. After soliciting some information from me such as phone number, he discontinued the correspodence. I am not entirely clear on what evil outcome I may have been fortunate enough to avoid, but I guess whatever "banned" means it does not mean "banned from the messaging system".

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by buybeach

Hello:

The member in question messaged me regarding an item I am selling. After soliciting some information from me such as phone number, he discontinued the correspodence. I am not entirely clear on what evil outcome I may have been fortunate enough to avoid, but I guess whatever "banned" means it does not mean "banned from the messaging system".

Pretty sure you can not message or indeed sign in if you are banned.
Scammer was not using TRF messaging

[tng11]

Originally Posted by watchnut100

Perhaps he doesn’t know himself? The Daytona looks pretty convincing

I highly highly doubt it. He fabricated a story that he bought it from someone going through a divorce on TRF, but on CWC, he claimed he bought it from a second hand dealer. Then in the exchange he gave the victim an invalid address and the last name was probably misspelled on purpose (Persuad vs Persaud). When the victim tried to follow up, the number got disconnected. Sounds like all the hallmarks of a scammer.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by tng11

I highly highly doubt it. He fabricated a story that he bought it from someone going through a divorce on TRF, but on CWC, he claimed he bought it from a second hand dealer. Then in the exchange he gave the victim an invalid address and the last name was probably mispelled on purpose (Persuad vs Persaud). When the victim tried to follow up, the number got disconnected. Sounds like all the hallmarks of a scammer.

PLUS - he vanished!

[HERITAGE82]

Very sorry to hear, and this type of scam could have gotten anyone.

[CorradoBrit]

Originally Posted by HERITAGE82

scam could have gotten anyone.

Don't agree. SO many red flags associated with this transaction. New member, several BS posts, a few 'deals' on Classifieds and willing to send a Daytona without receiving trades. He's even listed the stolen watches in his bio. Unbelievable.

[HERITAGE82]

Originally Posted by CorradoBrit

Don't agree. SO many red flags associated with this transaction. New member, several BS posts, a few 'deals' on Classifieds and willing to send a Daytona without receiving trades. He's even listed the stolen watches in his bio. Unbelievable.

[J!m]

This is pure garbage humanity.

He will be found, and dealt with appropriately.

He is obviously a member of other forums as well (and I assume others here are members of the same forums?). Let's find this guy. This is truly disgusting behavior.

Not dumb enough to use his correct address, but dumb enough to post the incomings...

LET'S FIND HIM!

[Wahlberg]

Originally Posted by j7ols

I was only suspicious when he agreed to sell me his 116500 for $15k....

How much higher do they trade, 16-17k usd? So 15k sounds not too red alert to me, as a dealer price...

[buybeach]

Sorry but the message reached me through the "private message" sytem on this site and after the date of this thread stating this user was "banned". Not trying to provoke anyone, just wondering how or why this is possible.

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Pretty sure you can not message or indeed sign in if you are banned.
Scammer was not using TRF messaging

[kwcsports]

Sorry to hear this, hope he gets caught.

[j7ols]

And now this from The Watch Register.... Sent to me on WUS by KatyaHills



Dear Sir,



I am writing for The Watch Register, the largest international database of lost and stolen watches.

We are delighted to inform you that we have located the Panerai serial # OP7025BB1740967

IWC serial # 6090543 watches that you reported stolen on this forum.



These watches were searched against our database and we have requested that they are temporarily

held by the searcher. Please contact us within 48 hours if you wish to claim the

watch. If we do not hear back from you with evidence of a legitimate claim, insurance claim

details and/or police report, then without this information we will be unable to stop any sale of

the watch and will remove this watch from our database. Alternatively, in the event that these watches are being sold legitimately please do let us know so that we can update our database

accordingly.



Many thanks,

Bianca Fontanelli

[CorradoBrit]

Originally Posted by j7ols

And now this from The Watch Register.... Sent to me on WUS by KatyaHills



Dear Sir,



I am writing for The Watch Register, the largest international database of lost and stolen watches.

We are delighted to inform you that we have located the Panerai serial # OP7025BB1740967

IWC serial # 6090543 watches that you reported stolen on this forum.



These watches were searched against our database and we have requested that they are temporarily

held by the searcher. Please contact us within 48 hours if you wish to claim the

watch. If we do not hear back from you with evidence of a legitimate claim, insurance claim

details and/or police report, then without this information we will be unable to stop any sale of

the watch and will remove this watch from our database. Alternatively, in the event that these watches are being sold legitimately please do let us know so that we can update our database

accordingly.



Many thanks,

Bianca Fontanelli

Wow the plot thickens. Would love to know what this actually means though. 'Located' could mean a multitude of things not necessarily good for the rightful owner. Like who has physical possession? Maybe the register flagged the SN from this thread.