Rolex inventory at Local AD Horrible!!

[bdex75]

Originally Posted by dkg1616

Whatever my AD has out in the display has about double in the safe that are desirable models lol

My AD keeps none of the SS sport watches in their display case. All in the safe. Afraid of someone walking in buying them all and carelessly flipping them, getting the AD in trouble with Rolex.

Originally Posted by oldman2005

Wonder how can Rolex ADs make money when they have basically nothing to sell, amazing!

They cannot. Especially after they spent $1m plus to remodel because Rolex made them.

Originally Posted by sensui

I get that perspective...I own my fair share of Rolex...and it's great for value retention and all that....but when you produce a million watches a year...and you have ADs with stock that looks like the pictures shared..there's not much else to describe those scenarios other than embarrassing...forcefully embarrassed by inventory for the AD and drives potential customers away from the embarrassed brand.

Sure it's fine to perhaps be hard to buy a Daytona...a new novelty etc for the first year or two...but you can't even ensure ADs stocking a Submariner (your entry professional stainless) that's been in production for more than seven years? Brands like Patek have display cases with a pedestal holding two watches because they produce around 50k watches a year......you try to pull a similar move with Rolex just makes them look disingenuous.....it's going to hit a breaking point with this strategy and hurt their customer base if this continues IMO.

It already has hit a breaking point at my house. I will not buy a new Rolex. I was already lukewarm at best on the new models, have zero desire for a SkyD or Daytona or any other models anyhow. And this just cements for me what Rolex thinks about their loyal customers.



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[AK797]

Originally Posted by Dusko.Popov

Rolex is protecting the crown well, me thinks. Fewer will ask for discounts and the second-hand market remains robust.

I think now they are not, and they are worried they are not, which is why they have all these policies to curb the grey market which are annoying many customers. The problem is while the hype is initially welcome and means the desire for the watches is at a high, the respect for the brand as a serious watch company is falling, and I think that matters more to them.

[Ticknaway]

Rolex doesn’t care, when things settle out from their point of view most of us will still be looking to buy!

[jonnyz1245]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

Which reinforces the idea that the supply shortage is not intentional: if you're going to have the biggest displays, don't you need supply to match? Big displays without matching inventory look disproportionately empty, which works against the whole point of having the largest and most prominent displays.

Exactly. From a business standpoint it doesn't make sense to have their AD's spend hundreds of thousands and often a million plus dollars to completely overhaul the Rolex sections of stores and then provide them with no or little product.

I do not pretend to know the real reason behind all that is going on but my guess is this...

2-3 years ago there was a worldwide slowdown in the swiss watch market. In their planning for a next couple years, brands curbed their production per their sales forecast. A spike in demand and the booming global economy then caught everyone by surprise and since then it is all they can do to catch up with demand.

My guess is it's not as easy as everyone thinks to take supply from lets say 750K to 950K in the space of a year.

As for Rolex trying to curb the secondary market, I think they are shooting themselves in the foot. The grey market exists in commerce for a reason and provides balance. Its funny, these companys love the grey market when they need them and hate them when they don't. Exactly one year ago in the US you could buy subs, bnlrs etc at a discount on here or at an AD. Now everything is inflated. AD's were selling in bulk to grey every model a year ago because they had too. Now they don't. This whole thing with curbing the grey market, whether its Rolex or any other brand is dangerous and ridiculous. If Rolex wants to stop the crazy prices they can do exactly what they did 10 years ago. Raise prices and/or increase supply. I am a free market guy. Lets the free market work. It works for a reason.

[drgoro]

I am becoming less of a fan of Rolex everyday.

[Dusko.Popov]

Originally Posted by jonnyz1245

Exactly. From a business standpoint it doesn't make sense to have their AD's spend hundreds of thousands and often a million plus dollars to completely overhaul the Rolex sections of stores and then provide them with no or little product.

It makes plenty of sense. For the same reason I mentioned to Jackson Stone on the previous page.

It’s all branding. And the perpetuation of an image and a “pay to play” mentality to even be associated with that image.

Go to your local Ferrari dealership and ask how many new Ferraris they’ll get this year and what they had to do to even see any meaningful allocation be delievered by summer. Ask how many laFerrari Apertas that they’ll get and then ask if there are restrictions, from the mothership, around who they’re allowed to sell them to based on what type of person Ferrari wants seen driving them on the open roads.

Parallels aren’t exact, but where there is alignment is in those who drive demand through soft markets, and who are less impacted by normal economic ebbs and flows, have made their brand presence and partnership, with retailers, an earned privilege.

[Dusko.Popov]

Originally Posted by AK797

I think now they are not, and they are worried they are not, which is why they have all these policies to curb the grey market which are annoying many customers. The problem is while the hype is initially welcome and means the desire for the watches is at a high, the respect for the brand as a serious watch company is falling, and I think that matters more to them.

How is respect for their brand declining? And I ask respectfully.

[jonnyz1245]

Originally Posted by AK797

I think now they are not, and they are worried they are not, which is why they have all these policies to curb the grey market which are annoying many customers. The problem is while the hype is initially welcome and means the desire for the watches is at a high, the respect for the brand as a serious watch company is falling, and I think that matters more to them.

Interesting and you may be right.

The issue as I see it is they are a mass produced luxury brand. At approx a million watches a year, they are no AP or PP and never will be so doing all these things to curb the secondary market , while I get the current thinking behind it, is ridiculous. In the free market, the grey market is a necessary component. The brands all know this. AP, PP etc are able to leverage the current economy and position themselves the way they have but even this is temporary. Guess what happens when we have another multi year global downturn ? AP boutique will give you 10% off on that 15202 IMO this is a temporary supply issue and when things are back to normal , what are they going to do?

12 years ago in my neck of the woods, after one was on a list for a ss daytona at a particular AD chain for years and finally got the call, the customer was then told they had to have the watch back engraved, or not buy it. 6 years later and 6 price increases later, SS Daytonas were readily available in my area of the US and guess what? No more engraving. As a matter of fact one local AD had 2 of each dial color in his safe for 6 months that he could not sell no matter how many people he called or offered to in the store. He eventually put them in the window too.

[101031-28]

Originally Posted by Dusko.Popov

How is respect for their brand declining? And I ask respectfully.

This. 100%. Respect is not declining. As early as 1987, SS professionals (Daytona, GMT, Submariner and Explorer II although more available) were extremely hard to obtain in my country, Italy. I remember calling just about every AD in the peninsula and Switzerland, with no luck. It wasn't until 1989 I was able to acquire my first professional, a 5513 from an AD in Switzerland. 30 years of scarcity has not produced loss of interest or respect IMHO. If anything, it has made the brand and certain models all the more desirable.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Dusko.Popov

How is respect for their brand declining? And I ask respectfully.

In a nutshell, increasingly rude AD behaviour and a poor buying experience; Rolex's inability to balance the market in particular in the UK which has had issues since 2016 and thus many have turned away from the brand as the Omega and Breitling boys have had great fun at the Rolex owner's expense on the forums; and thirdly too many now see Rolex as a commodity to be traded, and the hype takes over the brand's fundamentals, it's much like when I see a Supreme LV cap for £900 and I just think, it's a ridiculous joke.

As I said Rolex are worried about the way the brand is now being perceived and being used, and we see that with constant changes in AD and Rolex selling policy, which we had never seen at all before. Just having great sales is not enough.

[liu_watch]

Originally Posted by Swiss Mad!

..."I have more than them.." !!! Lol

Made me laugh..

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

How funny, but true! :-)

[dreyep]

Originally Posted by WEST HAM ROLEX

Pic - you would think they would put all the watches in one case...? Looks a bit sad in pic,,,

Reminds me of the fish counters at most British supermarkets. They used to be overflowing with marine produce. Now it's one or two sad morsels poking out of the ice, looking you bleakly in the eye. Where have all the fish gone? What have we done?

[sensui]

Originally Posted by Dusko.Popov

Good points as usual.

My retort is that if I’m going for a look of exclusivity and small output, I make a small case, that accommodates few watches, and perhaps includes a pedestal (like Patek).

If I’m going for the look of “we make plenty of watches but they’re so hot that we can’t keep them in stock,” I do exactly what Rolex is doing - keeping a large display that is infrequently filled.

Filled = items are sitting.

Empty = we can’t keep up with demand.

I’m not an advertiser but I know that there is a psychology to brand marketing that starts at a field level.

Jackson Stone, I see your point about “optics.” But I also don’t know a better way for Rolex to convey the impression of incredible product demand to a degree that can best be expressed exponentially.

When you think Patek, you don’t think “hot.” You think “exclusive.” When you think Rolex, they are creating an image of incredible product demand despite an overwhelmingly soft Swiss watch market. If you go into your ad, Breitling, and Panerai, and Omega, and even Ap are easily accessible. Like there are more Breitlings in a local ad case than I’ve seen of Rolex all last year.

Everyone is trying something. Omega tried the strategy of increasing their prices considerably and not discussing discounts on the phone or at all at boutiques. That was their effort at creating an impression of “demand.”

That didn’t work. Or at least, it hasn’t yet and to my knowledge they’ve been going with that approach for the last two years.

Rolex is doing something right. And their “shortage” has been going on for a year. There doesn’t appear to be any statistically meaningful consumer bolting to other brands. In fact, the wait is causing greater and more pronounced desire to get even pedestrian steel pieces.

Rolex is protecting the crown well, me thinks. Fewer will ask for discounts and the second-hand market remains robust. Rolex has to separate themselves from the softening to mid/top tier (as distinguished from exquisite) luxury brands and this is their salvo.

Some very good points made indeed. And I can understand some of these sentiments. I think the thing to understand is not all consumers are created equally and come in with a different "watch" background. I've been thinking (and mentioned in another thread) for awhile now that most people shopping at ADs are walking in just to buy a Rolex. Sure they'll come in having dreams of grandeur with all the commercials/ad plugs they've seen for the stainless sports pieces.....but when they see nothing available, I'm sure the attention swings back quickly to DJs and OPs. In that sense, I know Rolex isn't losing out on much customers. But I still say if you have bare displays non-stop....not everyone will look @ this thinking Rolex is so hot you can't buy one.....a lot (and more and more as they continue to see the same pattern) will just think why bother wasting their time. Most are too scared of the grey market because of the counterfeits with their level of watch education so if they can't buy readily from the AD.....I think chances are they will go elsewhere.

I feel pretty blessed there aren't any models I'm looking for and I somewhat have relationships established with ADs for future pieces....but this is a terrible look still IMO for new buyers coming into the world of Rolex.

[harvey]

I took the pic of the display on 31/03/18 at Talwar Watch Co. I asked the manager if I could take it as I didn't think anyone would believe how bad things were for some ADs.

This particular AD is situated in an upmarket mall, in a well to do area of India so demand is definitely there for relatively high end watches.

[Fleetlord]

If they are indeed supplying case merchandisers to accommodate less watches, this is big and good news.

It means they are committed to lower production and exclusivity.

[jonnyz1245]

Originally Posted by Dusko.Popov

It makes plenty of sense. For the same reason I mentioned to Jackson Stone on the previous page.

It’s all branding. And the perpetuation of an image and a “pay to play” mentality to even be associated with that image.

Go to your local Ferrari dealership and ask how many new Ferraris they’ll get this year and what they had to do to even see any meaningful allocation be delievered by summer. Ask how many laFerrari Apertas that they’ll get and then ask if there are restrictions, from the mothership, around who they’re allowed to sell them to based on what type of person Ferrari wants seen driving them on the open roads.

Parallels aren’t exact, but where there is alignment is in those who drive demand through soft markets, and who are less impacted by normal economic ebbs and flows, have made their brand presence and partnership, with retailers, an earned privilege.

Ferrari makes what? 7,000 cars a year. Rolex makes a million watches. Big difference. HUGE. FYI, one of my closest friends was a GSM of the oldest Ferrari dealership in the US for many years and I am intimately familiar with Ferraris marketing. IF, and its a big IF Rolex thinks they can play that game making a million watches, they are sorely mistaken.

Being approved to buy a La Ferrari and agreeing not to flip it for a million plus dollar profit is a bit different than buying a BLNR. Last summer you could walk into an AD and buy a BLNR at a discount. This is a supply issue and it will be worked out. Rolex will not win if they are indeed trying to do what I think you are implying. AP? PP? sure. Rolex? Nah. Unless their business model has changed and they want to reduce production down to 200K across all model lines, then maybe. I think their capital costs and the huge infrastructure investment made over the last 10 years will dictate them churning out ever more watches.

my 2 cents and I could be wrong

edit: This is not the first time it has been hard to get a few SS models and each time, supply caught up to demand. I see no reason things don't revert as they always have. I have seen this with Subs etc in the 90's, in the 2000's , and now. Each time there came a point where one could walk into AD's across the US and walk out with a watch at a nice discount. Hell, I was offered 15% off on a Datejust last month after being in an AD for 10 mins I had never set foot in before. Waaaay different than trying to get a 488.

By the way,. I think you make some good points but I do not see how Rolex succeeds long term using this strategy . The average Joe who wants and buys a Rolex because of something achieved in life or receiving it as a gift. Whether it's a work milestone, a graduation gift, a XXX occasion, or a whatever isn't spending a lot of time on this. They go to Rolexes website, they see model X with a price, search for the local Ad and go in to buy. If they are told they can't get what they are looking for unless they buy another watch or some other hoop to jump through, most will leave discouraged and many will jump to another like brand such as Omega. We live in an instant gratification society and being told no you can't have something that is prominently advertised and displayed on the website just will not work for the majority of non -wis types. Why? They just care enough out the time or energy into pursuing this type of purchase.

Rolex is just an arguably better version of Omega and I LOVE Rolex but they are not and will never be AP, PP, or Ferrari. Again, Rolex is a mass produced luxury watch.

[Dusko.Popov]

Originally Posted by jonnyz1245

Ferrari makes what? 7,000 cars a year. Rolex makes a million watches. Big difference. HUGE. FYI, one of my closest friends was a GSM of the oldest Ferrari dealership in the US for many years and I am intimately familiar with Ferraris marketing. IF, and its a big IF Rolex thinks they can play that game making a million watches, they are sorely mistaken.

Being approved to buy a La Ferrari and agreeing not to flip it for a million plus dollar profit is a bit different than buying a BLNR. Last summer you could walk into an AD and buy a BLNR at a discount. This is a supply issue and it will be worked out. Rolex will not win if they are indeed trying to do what I think you are implying. AP? PP? sure. Rolex? Nah. Unless their business model has changed and they want to reduce production down to 200K across all model lines, then maybe. I think their capital costs and the huge infrastructure investment made over the last 10 years will dictate them churning out ever more watches.

my 2 cents and I could be wrong

edit: This is not the first time it has been hard to get a few SS models and each time, supply caught up to demand. I see no reason things don't revert as they always have. I have seen this with Subs etc in the 90's, in the 2000's , and now. Each time there came a point where one could walk into AD's across the US and walk out with a watch at a nice discount. Hell, I was offered 15% off on a Datejust last month after being in an AD for 10 mins I had never set foot in before. Waaaay different than trying to get a 488.

We both could be wrong. But I’m enjoying some good discussion with you and others along the way.

Unlike some of the threads which have devolved into ad hominem chaos, this one has been watch heads talking about watch things civilly.

I will say, in response to your post, that I’m not sure that seven-thousand, $350,000 things is appreciably different than one-million, $10,000 things. When you adjust for cost consideration, they’re both a moderate amount of items within their cost category.

[Dusko.Popov]

Originally Posted by jonnyz1245

Ferrari makes what? 7,000 cars a year. Rolex makes a million watches. Big difference. HUGE. FYI, one of my closest friends was a GSM of the oldest Ferrari dealership in the US for many years and I am intimately familiar with Ferraris marketing. IF, and its a big IF Rolex thinks they can play that game making a million watches, they are sorely mistaken.

Being approved to buy a La Ferrari and agreeing not to flip it for a million plus dollar profit is a bit different than buying a BLNR. Last summer you could walk into an AD and buy a BLNR at a discount. This is a supply issue and it will be worked out. Rolex will not win if they are indeed trying to do what I think you are implying. AP? PP? sure. Rolex? Nah. Unless their business model has changed and they want to reduce production down to 200K across all model lines, then maybe. I think their capital costs and the huge infrastructure investment made over the last 10 years will dictate them churning out ever more watches.

my 2 cents and I could be wrong

edit: This is not the first time it has been hard to get a few SS models and each time, supply caught up to demand. I see no reason things don't revert as they always have. I have seen this with Subs etc in the 90's, in the 2000's , and now. Each time there came a point where one could walk into AD's across the US and walk out with a watch at a nice discount. Hell, I was offered 15% off on a Datejust last month after being in an AD for 10 mins I had never set foot in before. Waaaay different than trying to get a 488.

By the way,. I think you make some good points but I do not see how Rolex succeeds long term using this strategy . The average Joe who wants and buys a Rolex because of something achieved in life or receiving it as a gift. Whether it's a work milestone, a graduation gift, a XXX occasion, or a whatever isn't spending a lot of time on this. They go to Rolexes website, they see model X with a price, search for the local Ad and go in to buy. If they are told they can't get what they are looking for unless they buy another watch or some other hoop to jump through, most will leave discouraged and many will jump to another like brand such as Omega. We live in an instant gratification society and being told no you can't have something that is prominently advertised and displayed on the website just will not work for the majority of non -wis types. Why? They just care enough out the time or energy into pursuing this type of purchase.

Rolex is just an arguably better version of Omega and I LOVE Rolex but they are not and will never be AP, PP, or Ferrari. Again, Rolex is a mass produced luxury watch.

To the amended part of your post - let’s just say Rolex sees a reckoning in the Swiss watch industry - something akin to the quartz crises of the 70s and 80s. How could Rolex keep interest and prestige in their brand, make owning a Rolex more about an experience rather than than the acquisition of outdated [and mass-produced] mechanical technology, and in doing so separate themselves from Omega and Breitling, other than what they (may be) doing?

[jonnyz1245]

Originally Posted by Dusko.Popov

We both could be wrong. But I’m enjoying some good discussion along the way.

Unlike some of the threads which have devolved into ad hominem chaos, this one has been watch heads talking about watch things civilly.

I will say, in response to your post, that I’m not sure that seven-thousand, $350,000 things is appreciably different than one-million, $10,000 things. When you adjust for cost consideration, they’re both a moderate amount of items within their cost category.

Indeed and it is enjoyable. We could both be wrong, right, or a little of both. Truthfully I don't know what they're up to and its all a guessing game. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense given their track record.

A rep for a large AD group in the US told them last fall that it was supply mis calculation based on the declining market the past couple years and that by the end of 2018, things should be back to normal levels. Makes as much sense to me as anything else. Thats not to say its accurate and I certainly don't want this to dissolve into a " I know a guy at the AD" etc I am just passing on something that from a business standpoint is a plausible explanation. Whether or not Rolex is trying to implement a whole new business strategy or not, I honestly have no idea and would guess no one here does either unless one of the posters is in the top 25 guys at Rolex HG.

Thanks for the fun conversation.

As for Ferrari, I can tell ya stories about how they do business that would make your hair stand up, blood boil, and generally infuriate you to no end. I guess it does sound a little like Rolex now that I think about it

[Dusko.Popov]

Originally Posted by jonnyz1245

Indeed and it is enjoyable. We could both be wrong, right, or a little of both. Truthfully I don't know what they're up to and its all a guessing game. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense given their track record.

A rep for a large AD group in the US told them last fall that it was supply mis calculation based on the declining market the past couple years and that by the end of 2018, things should be back to normal levels. Makes as much sense to me as anything else. Thats not to say its accurate and I certainly don't want this to dissolve into a " I know a guy at the AD" etc I am just passing on something that from a business standpoint is a plausible explanation. Whether or not Rolex is trying to implement a whole new business strategy or not, I honestly have no idea and would guess no one here does either unless one of the posters is in the top 25 guys at Rolex HG.

Thanks for the fun conversation.

As for Ferrari, I can tell ya stories about how they do business that would make your hair stand up, blood boil, and generally infuriate you to no end. I guess it does sound a little like Rolex now that I think about it

I’ve been looking at buying a used Ferrari but decided on a used Gallardo or Nsx instead (looking at an autumn purchase). I can’t afford a new one because my wife said that we can’t afford a new one.

You know how that is.

Anyway, I went with a buddy to a Ferrari dealership in northern, Virginia. The experience sucked. That’s how I learned about the LaFerrari bull crap. So whatever it is that you could have to say about Ferrari that would be infuriating, I already agree with you.