Red Sub 1680 restoration questions...

[Biglattimer]

Good morning y'all,

I inherited a Red Sub 1680 Mark IV from my father. He bought it in Hong Kong in 1971... I have the box, papers, and service history.

In the mid 2000's RSC removed the hands, and bezel insert from fat font to skinny.. Also it looks a bit heavily polished?

My questions are..

1) I am looking to replace the bezel insert and eventually the hands with original 1680 parts. Will this depreciate the value, or increase it?

2) how difficult will it be to find AUTHENTIC 1680 parts?

I would like to find the parts and have a qualified independent servicing to install the parts properly..

OR.. should I just leave it as is?

[Biglattimer]

Better pic

[1665fan]

Leave the hands and replace the insert with a nice mark3 insert. Would probably be around 1500$. Nice watch!

[Biglattimer]

will replacing the current service insert with a fat font mark3 bezel deminish the vintage value, or add to it?

Thanks for the help!

[1watch]

A Mk3 insert will look better to most eyes, add value and be correct for the watch.

[Biglattimer]

Thanks so much for all the help!!

[btinl]

The hands look fine as the luminova appears to match the color of the dial markers. I agree with the suggestions above - find a nice mk3 bezel insert.

[swish77]

Are you sure the hands were replaced? Could be the lighting, but they look like a perfect match to the dial. Would be interested to see a flashlight photo, to confirm the hands are now luminova.

If they are luminova hands, that would be the first thing I'd tackle. I'd try to track down a set of tritium hands, with a match as close to the dial patina as possible. Yes, an MK3 insert would be nice too, but luminova hands would bug me a lot more.

Looks like the pin is sticking out of the bottom right-side lug hole. I'd fix that too.

Nice red Sub!

[Biglattimer]

To be honest im not 100% that the hands were replaced during servicing. My father swears he thought there was some patina on the hands, but it could be his memory failing him! It says on the paper work that the dial and hands be left alone, so its possible its original and my father is mistaken!

[swaini3]

Generally speaking, the more the watch retains its original state (how it left Rolex initially), the more value it holds. If you plan to replace the hands, make sure they match the dial and make sure your 'parts' source is knowledgable (just cz they fit, it does not mean its the right hands).
Parts pop up every now and then in the FS section, just be patient.
If I were you, I would just enjoy the watch, keep it maintained, source the parts at ease and ask the forum for any recommended vintage watch makers in your area. Maybe he can source the parts for you too and get all the above and what other members mentioned done too :)

All the best

[Biglattimer]

Thank you! :)

[42itus]

Beautiful watch!

Did you try looking at it under a black light to see if the markers and hands match?

[Claven2]

Too bad the bottom right lug was ground down more than the others. If you really want ot go hog wild, the restoration places could add material back on and fix it, or alternately, you could have a jeweller file down the spring bar so it does not protrude.

Nice watch.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by Claven2

Too bad the bottom right lug was ground down more than the others. If you really want ot go hog wild, the restoration places could add material back on and fix it, or alternately, you could have a jeweller file down the spring bar so it does not protrude.

Nice watch.

Could also just be a wrong-size spring bar. Watch has clearly been polished, but I've seen worse lugs.

[SubKing]

it's easy to tell if the hands are original. Put the watch up to a bright light, then go to a dark room, total darkness... If the hands are glowing very bright and the dial isn't glowing at all or just very slightly, then the hands have been updated with luminova.

[Biglattimer]

Gotta pick up a black light!

Im intrigued by the idea of having "material/steel" added back to the lugs to return them to factor spec. Would this ruin the watch in anyway? I plan on keeping this watch as it was my fathers, however Im not keen on damaging its resale value either!

Ive heard that having this type of restoration can leave the case vulnerable for future stressors/oxidation etc. (I really dont know wtf im talking about.. just info I gathered reading other forum topics on laser welding)

[XavierM]

Originally Posted by Biglattimer

Gotta pick up a black light!

Im intrigued by the idea of having "material/steel" added back to the lugs to return them to factor spec. Would this ruin the watch in anyway? I plan on keeping this watch as it was my fathers, however Im not keen on damaging its resale value either!

Ive heard that having this type of restoration can leave the case vulnerable for future stressors/oxidation etc. (I really dont know wtf im talking about.. just info I gathered reading other forum topics on laser welding)

Hi,

Nice watch, always really cool to read stories of watches being bequeathed by a generation to the next one.
Regarding this « restauration technique », I would personally not buy a watch that has been touched this way, so to me, it would hit the resale value quite hard.
From another perspective, this watch is as it is because you father gave it a lot of wrist time since 1971, playing with the case would be a bit like removing all the memories it has from its previous life :(

Enjoy it as it is, if you plan to keep it, don’t change anything !

[TimeLord2]

Originally Posted by XavierM

Hi,

Nice watch, always really cool to read stories of watches being bequeathed by a generation to the next one.
Regarding this « restauration technique », I would personally not buy a watch that has been touched this way, so to me, it would hit the resale value quite hard.
From another perspective, this watch is as it is because you father gave it a lot of wrist time since 1971, playing with the case would be a bit like removing all the memories it has from its previous life :(

Enjoy it as it is, if you plan to keep it, don’t change anything !

This would be the other question. Would you buy a watch, like this one with papers and all, that has been polished in the past. Or would you be more inclined to purchase, if said over-polishing was addressed by laser welding resulting in a case that conforms more to original specifications? Just curious if you or any other collector would see over-polishing or laser-welding as the more decisive factor in selecting a watch. I'm of the opinion that those who would not purchase an over-polished example would not purchase one that has been laser-welded either. I believe many others, perhaps not collectors, would like a sympathetically restored version (original dial hands and insert with case restoration) over one that is over-polished but with the same features. I ask because it sounds similar to my own situation.

[Biglattimer]

Yes! My thoughts exactly!
I've been torn with the same dillemas you've just articulated!!

[TimeLord2]

Originally Posted by Biglattimer

Yes! My thoughts exactly!
I've been torn with the same dillemas you've just articulated!!

I don't ever want to sell my Father's watch but times like these make you want to ensure the decisions made don't have an impact on future value. Mine is polished and in need of a service, which I have already determined will be done at LAWW when I have a little extra cash. They are experts in case refinishing and I have flip flopped many times on going full laser treatment, to the opposite extreme of doing nothing, to a mild refinish with the top of the lugs milled a bit so the chamfers can be reestablished with a little patina on the sides. They can do all of those. I'm actually kind of glad I have taken so long to do anything because I still don't know what to do.

[08M6]

Originally Posted by TimeLord2

I don't ever want to sell my Father's watch but times like these make you want to ensure the decisions made don't have an impact on future value. Mine is polished and in need of a service, which I have already determined will be done at LAWW when I have a little extra cash. They are experts in case refinishing and I have flip flopped many times on going full laser treatment, to the opposite extreme of doing nothing, to a mild refinish with the top of the lugs milled a bit so the chamfers can be reestablished with a little patina on the sides. They can do all of those. I'm actually kind of glad I have taken so long to do anything because I still don't know what to do.

I had LAWW restore a couple of my watches (1680 and 16610lv) and could not have been happier. Plus they are local. Congratulations on a fantastic watch with meaningful provenance.

[XavierM]

Between an over polished watch and a laser welded (is it ok to say that ???) one, I would go for the over polished.
It would give me the opportunity to laser weld it later if I change my mind, if it is already laser welded, this option is gone and originality is lost in my opinion...

[bayareabuggs]

laser welded cases are just awful, they dont look right at all

[fmc000]

Originally Posted by bayareabuggs

laser welded cases are just awful, they dont look right at all

well, it largely depends on the welder.

[Swearengen]

Agreed, my Omega had a really nasty dent above the crown, now undetectable

Originally Posted by fmc000

well, it largely depends on the welder.

[TimeLord2]

Originally Posted by bayareabuggs

laser welded cases are just awful, they dont look right at all

I don't know which examples you've been seeing but just about every one I have seen is flawless. The only thing that looks odd is the pristine condition of the bevel and lugs compared to the age of the watch. That said, there are plenty of posts on TRF showing some significant wear after only two years. I think the scratches and dents are easy to replace… Here's a fairly recent example from a TRF member who used Rolliworks: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=710946

[swaini3]

I would leave welding as an absolute last resort or if my watch had a seriously bad dent.

[SailingLife]

I feel your pain as I am hunting a Bezel insert for my 1969 1680 as well. Honestly cost is one factor however authentication is even a bigger factor. I have been hunting eBay but people age these inserts and I’m finding it hard to justify 1-3k for an insert I’m not even sure is correct.

[42itus]

Originally Posted by SailingLife

I feel your pain as I am hunting a Bezel insert for my 1969 1680 as well. Honestly cost is one factor however authentication is even a bigger factor. I have been hunting eBay but people age these inserts and I’m finding it hard to justify 1-3k for an insert I’m not even sure is correct.

You can reach out to @springer . He sold me a very nice insert at a good price.

[Redmy]

I would leave the watch alone since it’s from your dad. It’s already nice the way it is. Don’t need to put original parts on it. You most likely won’t sell it anyways. Just wear it and enjoy it.


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