Opinions on my Zenith/LVMH repair estimate

[mosipd]

I recently purchased a pre-owned Zenith Pilot Doublematic (ref: 03.2400.4046) that I sent in for service. The watch was in immaculate condition when I received it and hardly looked like it was worn. After a couple of days however, I noticed it was running fast at approximately 30 to 45 seconds per day. It seemed to be consistently fast, and didn't appear to fluctuate a noticeable amount. So I contacted Zenith/LVMH and was instructed to send them the watch and include a statement describing the issue.

The watch then had to be sent to Switzerland as all the more complicated movements are serviced there. After about 6 weeks, I receive a repair estimate for $2,200 that simply states "Maintenance II." Wanting to know what that entails, I called the number listed on the estimate. Unfortunately, the person I spoke with wasn't able to provide any more information. I asked if there was a maintenance 1, and what the differences were, but all I was told was that the maintenance 2 would bring the watch back into manufacturers specifications. I asked if I could speak with someone at the office in Switzerland, but that wasn't possible.

I figured the estimate would be somewhere around $1,000, give or take, but I really didn't think it would be that high. I don't know how they determined the watch needs a full overhaul. I asked what the process was but all they said was that the watch wasn't within the manufacturers specifications. This is the first time I've ever had to send a watch in for maintenance/repairs. Given my inexperience in dealing with these matters, I'm worried that I'm getting hosed for $2,200 when all the watch really needs is a bit of regulation.

Thoughts?

[1William]

I can not speak to the specifics of the service but I can speak to service costs in general for pre-owned watches. This is an example of figuring service costs into a purchase price and also knowing where service will occur. Many times I buy through my AD who has a robust pre-owned section but also warranties the watch for a year after the manufacture warranty expires. Good luck with this. You are kind of over a barrel in that what are you going to do? Send the watch back without the service? I would have the watch repaired and get it back and enjoy it.

[toxicavenger]

You bought a watch that not ever watch guy would choose to work on. So you are pretty limited on options, the only option imo is the manufacture. If they say it needs that much work then that is what they are going to charge you. They aren't going to debate with you to justify the cost of the service. Not to mention this watch starts at almost $13k, why are you balking at a $2K service bill?

[mosipd]

I guess I just expected them to include a little more info on what tests were performed and a better description of what needs to be done. My concern is their default diagnosis is simply to perform a full overhaul regardless of whether or not it's actually needed. I don't have an issue laying out the cash to perform work that truly needs to be done. It would just be nice if they at least said here's the problem and this is why this will fix it or no, it's not possible to regulate a watch running that fast.

Ah well, couldn't hurt to ask so I figured I'd ask. I'm going to end up paying it as I'm already $180 in the hole for shipping - sunk costs and all that - but something tells me I should've brought it to an independent watchmaker first.

[DoraTheExplorerII]

From the problem you described I would've bought a cheap demagnetiser off ebay first and tried that out. I doubt Zenith would care to save you money instead of doing a full on service.

[~JJ]

Costs go up for complicated movements, but that seems to be AP/PP pricing. I would expect to pay upwards of $1,250-$1,500 for a full service plus parts.

The seller had to be aware of this issue and the costs. He sold his problems to you. I would try to get a refund for the watch not being as described or try to split the costs.

[PJ S]

Not sure why you are out of pocket by $180, but there’s a big difference between that and $2200!
Personally, I’d get it back and have a good local independent put it on a timegrapher and check the amplitutude.
Running fast is normally a symptom of shortened hairspring, through magnetisation or oil, which should be an easy fix for a good indy, if the indication is that the rest of the movement is fine and dandy still.
Time enough in the future to pay for a full service.
Is there no local/regional LVMH Service Centre near you?

[meganfox17]

Originally Posted by mosipd

purchased a pre-owned Zenith Pilot Doublematic sent in for service.watch immaculate looked unworn. After few days running consistently fast 30 -45/day. contacted Zenith/LVMH send watch to Switzerland +describe issue.

After 6/52 receive repair estimate $2,200 ( Maintenance II ) I estimated ~ $1,000, don't know how they determined the watch needs a full overhaul. Said watch wasn't within manufacturers specs.worried I'm getting hosed for $2,200 when all the watch really needs is a bit of regulation.
Thoughts?

I'm just recalling from memory here so just countercheck my figures if you're doubtful. Personally I don't even think Magnetism is the problem in the first place.
✓The rule of thumb is the Basic Servicing and maintenance cost of any watch is 10% of the MSRP for watches below 50K. Level 1 is maintenance 1. So how much does a new ZP EP DMatic cost these days? Let's say 12 grand but you're still underestimating the basic servicing so it's not really 1K but 1.2K
✓ What's the El Primero Calibre in this watch ? Something like 404x right ? How many part movements inside? 430? 440? Your watch has a World Timer +GMT+ Alarm Functions + Chronograph + Big Date + Power Reserves indicator + Have I missed out anything else ? That places your high end watch on planet Haute Horlogerià, know what I'm sayin...?
Only a certified Zenith Watchmaker in Le Locle is qualified to examine and make the complete diagnosis.Your opinions don't count. Sure, Zenith should give you a quote on the total cost before proceeding and you have the right to refuse but then again no other watchmaker on planet Earth is going to F around with your Z EP !

What do you mean " the watch really needs only a bit of regulation? " Did you take up any watchmaking and watch repair classes, Sir? I'm pretty sure the Zenith Master Watchmaker has given his professional opinion on the overall condition after examining both the interior and exterior of your Z P EP DMatic and the diagnosis is Level 2 or Maintenance 2 which means in addition to restoring the watch to full manufacturer's specs , the watch now needs a complete total overhaul. Hey! Look on the bright side, you get a new sapphire crystal installed, new sets of hands, movement parts replacement, nice polishing - basically a New Watch and total Zen experience ! Apparently here Level 2 has set you back by another US $1K (depending on the number of complications of course)

✓ Maintenance 1 * US$ 1.2K + Maintenance 2 *US1.0K = US$ 2.2K

My Impression : The Master Watchmaker in Le Locle has made the correct diagnosis and the final servicing cost quoted by Zenith is reasonable and fair. Nobody is trying to con you Sir. Just remember the more the chosen complications, the higher is the total servicing + repair charges + labour charges in hours + parts replacement

Ok Guys.That's a Wrap. I'm outta here.... Peace️


p/s: Any0ne here has any idea how much is the basic servicing of a Richard Mille watch ? * It's about US$ 4K

[Lime]

That seems high even for that movement. They are trying to pull the wool over your eyes sorry

[lapince]

Originally Posted by ~JJ

Costs go up for complicated movements, but that seems to be AP/PP pricing. I would expect to pay upwards of $1,250-$1,500 for a full service plus parts.

The seller had to be aware of this issue and the costs. He sold his problems to you. I would try to get a refund for the watch not being as described or try to split the costs.

I don’t think that AP or PP pricing, the watch is super complicated with at least 4 serious complications, chrono, alarm, GMT, WT and big date, this kind of service for the same watch in either of these two brands would go for much more I think.
What sucks is that they don’t give the detail of what has to be done and what the problem is

[mosipd]

Unfortunately I can no longer return the watch, but I did get a good deal on it. Even with the high cost of service I'm still a bit under what a new one would cost, thankfully.

I'm out the $180 because I had to ship the watch twice. Once to the (only) US regional Zenith/LVMH headquarters, which doesn't work on these movements, and then pay them to ship it to Switzerland. Shipping direct to Switzerland with insurance likely would've cost the $180 anyway, so that's not a big deal, but it did add a lot of extra time.

I called them again on Friday and spoke to a few different people this time. Two of the three people I spoke with wouldn't tell me anything more than the watch wasn't within spec and that maintenance would bring it within spec. However the third person I spoke with told me the following in response to my question as to whether or not the watch had been opened. They said it was placed on a timing machine and that any further work couldn't be done until I approved and paid for the estimate. That doesn't necessarily answer my question, but at least it's something more than a boilerplate response.

Maybe I was naive in thinking they'd provide more information, is this how most watch companies operate when repairing/servicing watches? I figured I'd at least be provided with a basic diagnostic of what's wrong. I'm going to approve the service on Monday as I'd like to have the watch back before the year is out. I only had it for about a month.

[PJ S]

Before you commit, take a bit of time to chat with a couple of independent watch repairers, to get their opinion.
Alternatively try to get in touch with JC Biver – you’re probably familiar with his direct contact with Hublot owners, even at weekends, so you never know what may result if you make contact. You’ve nothing to lose, and everything to gain.

[mosipd]

Before I approved the service I received a call from the more helpful employee I spoke with. A request was put in to Switzerland for more information on the maintenance and whether or not it could be regulated. The voicemail I received today said that maintenance is required every 3 to 5 years, and since the watch is 5 years old it needs maintenance. Fine. Only that's not all, apparently now the alarm power reserve is broken, which is certainly news to me. It definitely wasn't broken before I sent it in. I made it a point to test all functions to ensure everything was in perfect working order before I shipped it.

They made no mention of a broken power reserve when it was first inspected at the US service center. In fact, the US service center listed the condition as only having "light scratches." You'd think such an obvious flaw, one easily noticed in seconds by an untrained eye, would've been noted on the condition. So either they damaged it shipping it to Switzerland, someone physically broke it, or it's not really broken. I'm going to call them up tomorrow and ask for more information on this "new finding" and why this wasn't mentioned on the condition form.

Originally Posted by PJ S

Alternatively try to get in touch with JC Biver – you’re probably familiar with his direct contact with Hublot owners, even at weekends, so you never know what may result if you make contact. You’ve nothing to lose, and everything to gain.

I appreciate the recommendation PJ S, and I will also contact JC Biver for his input on this.