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Old 13 August 2018, 05:40 AM   #1
tony_san
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Problem with 16750 purchase. RSC said it was not original!!!!

Dear all,

I started the same thread in VRF for the experts’ here kind help. Here is the step by step incident report:

Buyer: me
Seller:
Name: Trevor Sheperd (and Facebook)
Instagram: watchesofsussex
Ebay ID: bideez-online

1. I was eyeing on a 16750 matte in Ebay from the above seller.
2. He confirmed that the whole watch and every parts are “original” and “period correct” in Ebay “ask the seller section”. I can provide proof if needed
3. I did check for reference on 3 previous buyers provided by him in Instagram. All positive.
4. I made the purchase and payment on the same day on 1 July 2018.
5. I asked the seller to take photo of the case between the lugs to show me the serial number before shipping. He agreed. But then he said he forgot and the watch had been with Fedex already
6. The seller said the watch will be arrive 2-3 days.
7. Fedex website showed that it was stuck in the UK export custom and I called the HK Fedex. They said the shipper should provide commercial invoice and some documents but he forgot. Anyway, finally resolved. I finally received it on 12 July 2018
8. On the 13 july 2018, I sent the watch to RSC in HK for a free verification service.
9. On 27 July 2018, RSC called and said they needed more time as the watch was quite old. They need to send info to Switzerland to check all parts and model number with the serial number on the case
10. On 5 Aug 2018, RSC called me and said they that the watch was “not original”. The serial number on the case belonged to the older 1675-0. And some parts are not original. (While the seller confirmed every part was original - aka without replacement part)
11. On 5 Aug 2018, I WhatsApp the seller. The seller said replacement parts are very common for vintage watch. He insisted the serial number match with the production years of the 16750. Instead, “you should enjoy it, it is an excellent piece”
12. The seller indicative that RSC may mess up the serial number as 16750 is a transition model. I did called RSC again for this transition model concern. RSC double confirmed the watch is wrong in the above mentioned ways. They also said, they will not do any further inspection on this watch. No RSC in the world will.
13. The seller asked me a few question about the reason for return in Ebay. He said he needs to understand before accepting return. And he said he could probably sell higher price now in the market. So, he thought I should keep it.
14. I answered all the questions. But the seller still declined return without giving me a reason in Ebay.
15. With a few WhatsApp exchange, the seller insisted to refuse return and I then decided to open a case in Ebay
16. After I opened a case, the seller offered me a partial refund of 200 GBP. I declined.
17. He then invited Ebay staff to step in. Ebay staff informed that they will write to me working 48 hours (which is yesterday.)

My question is:
- the 30 days return period in Ebay has expired. But if it is a wrong description, will I still get the refund.
- My last solution will be escalate to PayPal, which offer 45days protection (until 14 Aug)
- Should I escalate to PayPal before the expiry to protect myself? Because Ebay has been delaying to write back.

Thank you for your time and for reading into this thread. I look forward to the advice of the experts and your experience / opinion is valued.
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Old 13 August 2018, 10:28 AM   #2
J_1964
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Go the PayPal route. Do It Now.
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Old 13 August 2018, 10:32 AM   #3
GLADIATOR
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Just raise to eBay/PayPal
I have had success 2 years after on a Panerai Fake.

If you can not resolve it PM me
Adam
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Old 13 August 2018, 10:43 AM   #4
CorradoBrit
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Did you pay with credit card through Paypal. I would lodge a dispute with the CC before PP. You may want to wait until Ebay gives a response. Contact them directly if you haven't heard within 48 hours as they state.

Keep all the written communication especially those that pertain to condition and current state. Generate a time-line and submit to PP or CC to illustrate how the watch does not meet expectations.

Good luck. You may be out return shipping but at least you'll get the initial payment back.
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Old 13 August 2018, 10:47 AM   #5
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Here's a couple of current listings. High end watches seem a VERY small part of this guys inventory. Buyer beware

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rolex-168...sAAOSwuPlbam5D

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rolex-dat...cAAOSw5xJbam5E


Watch in question
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/-/2733198...2047675.l10137
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Old 13 August 2018, 10:57 AM   #6
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Why did seller not honour the 30 day return policy per the listing? You had every right to send it back whether as described or in this case, less than described.
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Old 13 August 2018, 10:58 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorradoBrit View Post
Cool work
Watch "looks" OK to me.
Fact is no seller ONLY ROLEX Switzerland could verify that "all" was original.

It looked good to me - but I do NOT have serial number to case records.

I think too that maybe you should just "enjoy" - not sure?

If you need eBay help, let me know
Adam
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Old 13 August 2018, 11:34 AM   #8
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Hope issue is resolved; go the Paypal route ASAP


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Old 13 August 2018, 11:54 AM   #9
tony_san
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Thanks guys. That's why i always love this community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GLADIATOR View Post
Just raise to eBay/PayPal
I have had success 2 years after on a Panerai Fake.

If you can not resolve it PM me
Adam
So, the 30 days/45 days is for dissatisfaction. If it is fake/ wrong description, then the return period can be extended. (?)


Quote:
Originally Posted by CorradoBrit View Post
Did you pay with credit card through Paypal. I would lodge a dispute with the CC before PP. You may want to wait until Ebay gives a response. Contact them directly if you haven't heard within 48 hours as they state.

Keep all the written communication especially those that pertain to condition and current state. Generate a time-line and submit to PP or CC to illustrate how the watch does not meet expectations.

Good luck. You may be out return shipping but at least you'll get the initial payment back.
Hi CorradoBrit, I have just also opened a paypal dispute. I have record for all promise by the seller on the original condition. I do not mind to pay the return due to the large sum of the watch.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CorradoBrit View Post
Here's a couple of current listings. High end watches seem a VERY small part of this guys inventory. Buyer beware


Watch in question
My is a 16750 instead of 1675. Unfortunately, I cannot post link as i have less than 10 posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorradoBrit View Post
Why did seller not honour the 30 day return policy per the listing? You had every right to send it back whether as described or in this case, less than described.
Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by GLADIATOR View Post
Cool work
Watch "looks" OK to me.
Fact is no seller ONLY ROLEX Switzerland could verify that "all" was original.

It looked good to me - but I do NOT have serial number to case records.

I think too that maybe you should just "enjoy" - not sure?

If you need eBay help, let me know
Adam
This is not the same watch on my hand. Mine is 16750. I have worry that the RSC said my watch will never be able to receive any service or maintaince in any RSC in the world. Also, I do not feel comfortable in case i have to sell it to other buyers.

Thanks in advance for your help.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fskywalker View Post
Hope issue is resolved; go the Paypal route ASAP


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Thanks Fskywalker. Sleepless nights for me.
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Old 13 August 2018, 12:06 PM   #10
CorradoBrit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony_san View Post

My is a 16750 instead of 1675. Unfortunately, I cannot post link as i have less than 10 posts.

.
Thats odd coz the link was taken from sellers neg feedback. Did you not leave neg feedback for the watch in my link? Person who left it was a buyer in HK and had the watch checked by the RSC, so i assumed it was you. You need to scroll down to see the original listing (#273319878792).
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Old 13 August 2018, 12:35 PM   #11
tony_san
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorradoBrit View Post
Thats odd coz the link was taken from sellers neg feedback. Did you not leave neg feedback for the watch in my link? Person who left it was a buyer in HK so i assumed it was you. You need to scroll down to see the original listing (#273319878792).
oh yes. you are right. I followed a wrong link, which links to a 1675. Yes. That's it.
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Old 13 August 2018, 12:38 PM   #12
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30 days is NOT written in blood
Ebay can not sell fakes its illegal
So we can sort out
A
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"We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, while others judge us by what we have already done."
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Old 13 August 2018, 12:52 PM   #13
CorradoBrit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLADIATOR View Post
30 days is NOT written in blood
Ebay can not sell fakes its illegal
So we can sort out
A
Especially when Rolex HK says the watch isn't kosher. With all the potential issues that might entail later in the watches life. I'd wait for Ebay to respond and then follow up with PP if necessary.
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Old 13 August 2018, 01:01 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corradobrit View Post
especially when rolex hk says the watch isn't kosher. With all the potential issues that might entail later in the watches life. I'd wait for ebay to respond and then follow up with pp if necessary.
agreed
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"We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, while others judge us by what we have already done."
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Old 13 August 2018, 01:37 PM   #15
tony_san
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Noted with thanks. Will do so accordingly.

Will Keep you guys posted.
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Old 13 August 2018, 02:19 PM   #16
tony_san
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I will probably be hated by the Rolex ladies.

I just called again to ask for more explanation. They said the serial number belongs to production year from 1970-1979 and belong to the 1675-0 according to their database.
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Old 13 August 2018, 02:48 PM   #17
CorradoBrit
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Is 16750 and 1675-0 or 1675/0 the same thing? The watch was described as 16750 on the listing.
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Old 13 August 2018, 03:05 PM   #18
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isn't that a service dial?
looks authentic, but probably replacement parts....
seller didn't described it correctly...

Yah, definitely return it...
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Old 22 October 2018, 05:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorradoBrit View Post
Why did seller not honour the 30 day return policy per the listing? You had every right to send it back whether as described or in this case, less than described.
The buyer waited 2 months to return the watch!
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Old 22 October 2018, 05:23 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorradoBrit View Post
Especially when Rolex HK says the watch isn't kosher. With all the potential issues that might entail later in the watches life. I'd wait for Ebay to respond and then follow up with PP if necessary.
Rolex didnt say that and the buyer presented no evidence at all!
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Old 22 October 2018, 05:35 PM   #21
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I just came across this and feel the need to put things right!

This buyer Tony spent about 3 hours discussing the watch with me in great detail! I have been collecting for around 10 years and have sold many watches.
I have 28000 positive feedbacks on ebay and rely on my honesty and integrity.
The buyer asked many questions and I answered accurately and fairly. The watch was clearly a 16750 (quickset movement, serial, etched 16750, hand stack order) .
The watch was excellent and resold for more money as soon as it was returned to a Rolex stockist.
The buyer claimed that RSC said the watch was a 1675 and dated 1970-1979! Absolutely nonsense comments when the serial dated the watch to 1981.
Ebay closed the case in my favour ,Ebay removed the negative because it was factually wrong and unfair.
Everything about this piece was correct.
I appreciate there are many experts on here but there are also many armchair experts too.
It is too easy to assume the seller is wrong when it is in fact the buyer who is being quite frankly a bit of an idiot.
For your information a very experienced Rolex dealer saw the watch on VRF and immediately contacted me and asked if he could buy the watch as soon as it was returned.
What the buyer had was a great watch at a fair price which he used for 2 months then sent back because he fancied a change !

He's post was also removed from VRF on account of his slanderous, incorrect and naive content.

I would urge anyone who has commented on this in his defence to look at all the facts and not make assumptions based on a post from a guy who just changed his mind.

Rant over
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Old 22 October 2018, 05:44 PM   #22
Bideez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony_san View Post
Dear all,

I started the same thread in VRF for the experts’ here kind help. Here is the step by step incident report:

Buyer: me
Seller:
Name: Trevor Sheperd (and Facebook)
Instagram: watchesofsussex
Ebay ID: bideez-online

1. I was eyeing on a 16750 matte in Ebay from the above seller.
2. He confirmed that the whole watch and every parts are “original” and “period correct” in Ebay “ask the seller section”. I can provide proof if needed
3. I did check for reference on 3 previous buyers provided by him in Instagram. All positive.
4. I made the purchase and payment on the same day on 1 July 2018.
5. I asked the seller to take photo of the case between the lugs to show me the serial number before shipping. He agreed. But then he said he forgot and the watch had been with Fedex already
6. The seller said the watch will be arrive 2-3 days.
7. Fedex website showed that it was stuck in the UK export custom and I called the HK Fedex. They said the shipper should provide commercial invoice and some documents but he forgot. Anyway, finally resolved. I finally received it on 12 July 2018
8. On the 13 july 2018, I sent the watch to RSC in HK for a free verification service.
9. On 27 July 2018, RSC called and said they needed more time as the watch was quite old. They need to send info to Switzerland to check all parts and model number with the serial number on the case
10. On 5 Aug 2018, RSC called me and said they that the watch was “not original”. The serial number on the case belonged to the older 1675-0. And some parts are not original. (While the seller confirmed every part was original - aka without replacement part)
11. On 5 Aug 2018, I WhatsApp the seller. The seller said replacement parts are very common for vintage watch. He insisted the serial number match with the production years of the 16750. Instead, “you should enjoy it, it is an excellent piece”
12. The seller indicative that RSC may mess up the serial number as 16750 is a transition model. I did called RSC again for this transition model concern. RSC double confirmed the watch is wrong in the above mentioned ways. They also said, they will not do any further inspection on this watch. No RSC in the world will.
13. The seller asked me a few question about the reason for return in Ebay. He said he needs to understand before accepting return. And he said he could probably sell higher price now in the market. So, he thought I should keep it.
14. I answered all the questions. But the seller still declined return without giving me a reason in Ebay.
15. With a few WhatsApp exchange, the seller insisted to refuse return and I then decided to open a case in Ebay
16. After I opened a case, the seller offered me a partial refund of 200 GBP. I declined.
17. He then invited Ebay staff to step in. Ebay staff informed that they will write to me working 48 hours (which is yesterday.)

My question is:
- the 30 days return period in Ebay has expired. But if it is a wrong description, will I still get the refund.
- My last solution will be escalate to PayPal, which offer 45days protection (until 14 Aug)
- Should I escalate to PayPal before the expiry to protect myself? Because Ebay has been delaying to write back.

Thank you for your time and for reading into this thread. I look forward to the advice of the experts and your experience / opinion is valued.
I did supply the serial and can prove this!
The watch was held at customs for a few days because the buyer changed his mind 3 times about including the value or not! I have no control over this.
The watch is and always has been a 16750, anyone who has dealt with RSC knows how unreliable they are with Vintage pieces.
To sum up the watch was a 16750 with correct parts exactly as described.
The buyer was indecisive, problematic , awkward and inexperienced in vintage, he took 2 months then organised a chargeback through paypal costing me time, money and inconvenience.
Anyone who knows and deals with me knows I am serious about watches.

Just so you have both sides of the facts!

Thank you
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Old 22 October 2018, 05:47 PM   #23
Bideez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinMay View Post
isn't that a service dial?
looks authentic, but probably replacement parts....
seller didn't described it correctly...

Yah, definitely return it...
No it isn't a service dial!
Yes it's authentic, why probably service parts??
I spent 2 hours describing it properly!

But yeah definitely return it!!
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Old 22 October 2018, 05:47 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorradoBrit View Post
Is 16750 and 1675-0 or 1675/0 the same thing? The watch was described as 16750 on the listing.
Yes the watch was described accurately, thanks
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Old 22 October 2018, 05:49 PM   #25
Bideez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLADIATOR View Post
Just raise to eBay/PayPal
I have had success 2 years after on a Panerai Fake.

If you can not resolve it PM me
Adam
Please read All the facts I have posted. This watch was 100% authentic, it was the seller (ME) who was put out here. It is always worth looking at the facts first
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Old 22 October 2018, 05:53 PM   #26
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Oh and one last fact the buyer forgot to mention


I provided the original purchase receipt from a Rolex dealership in Germany where I purchased the watch for £7600.

People need to be very careful on here before making knee jerk assumptions based on the comments of someone that has no knowledge or vintage rolex.

If anyone wants to see the full whatsapp conversation that the buyer tried to delete (I keep screen shots) then do get in touch.
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Old 22 October 2018, 05:54 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorradoBrit View Post
Why did seller not honour the 30 day return policy per the listing? You had every right to send it back whether as described or in this case, less than described.
It was 2 months and in this case it was exactly as described!!

Read all the true facts above
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Old 22 October 2018, 05:56 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony_san View Post
I will probably be hated by the Rolex ladies.

I just called again to ask for more explanation. They said the serial number belongs to production year from 1970-1979 and belong to the 1675-0 according to their database.
1970-1979!

It was a 1981 serial 16750 with quickset !
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Old 22 October 2018, 06:00 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorradoBrit View Post
Here's a couple of current listings. High end watches seem a VERY small part of this guys inventory. Buyer beware

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rolex-168...sAAOSwuPlbam5D

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rolex-dat...cAAOSw5xJbam5E


Watch in question
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/-/2733198...2047675.l10137
Well given I have 5000 listings and only sell a few watches why prey tell would that make you beware? How many watches do you own or sell? 500? 1000? 2000? . The comments you have made make no sense. And any idea why you would ignore the 28500 positive feedbacks and superb reputation?
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Old 22 October 2018, 06:03 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLADIATOR View Post
Cool work
Watch "looks" OK to me.
Fact is no seller ONLY ROLEX Switzerland could verify that "all" was original.

It looked good to me - but I do NOT have serial number to case records.

I think too that maybe you should just "enjoy" - not sure?

If you need eBay help, let me know
Adam
Thanks Adam

The watch was indeed ok and the serial dated the watch clearly to 1981. He should have enjoyed rather than causing me inconvenience with his dithering and lack of experience. I am also very thorough and already did all the due diligence on the watch when I bought it.
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