Crypto Geniuses?? Three Arrows Capital.

[Blansky]

I still can't wrap my head around crypto but should be interesting the comments on this by people here that can.


https://nymag.com/intelligencer/arti...7-8153d54f639f

[Star Ferry]

I know a couple other rich kids who had huge raises for their crypto funds. These folks are such parasites. Their only skill is access to capital and ability to spin stories, both of which are a direct result of being born with a silver spoon firmly planted in one’s mouth.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Blansky

I still can't wrap my head around crypto but should be interesting the comments on this by people here that can.


https://nymag.com/intelligencer/arti...7-8153d54f639f

You and me both

[JRedford]

Scumbags.

[904VT]

I’m not one for overregulation to the point of hurting business growth, but seriously how have exchanges and other crypto markets been allowed to operate with no oversight at all when the financial asset management industry is criticized and sued over a few basis points. Idiocracy in the year 2022.

You know buy only cheap index funds that buy baskets high and sell low with market cap but then also buy the equivalent of 1980’s pinks slips/OTC in the form of Crypto. At least some of those OTC generated cash flows. Crypto in 2020’s the decade when everyone thinks they’re an expert trader again just like Dot Com bubbles. I can only be amused while smacking my head simultaneously. Btw with all the talk about insider trading, what about crypto market manipulation.

[Mifune]

what do you want to know... I can help.

[binArt]

Originally Posted by 904VT

I’m not one for overregulation to the point of hurting business growth, but seriously how have exchanges and other crypto markets been allowed to operate with no oversight at all when the financial asset management industry is criticized and sued over a few basis points. Idiocracy in the year 2022.

You know buy only cheap index funds that buy baskets high and sell low with market cap but then also buy the equivalent of 1980’s pinks slips/OTC in the form of Crypto. At least some of those OTC generated cash flows. Crypto in 2020’s the decade when everyone thinks they’re an expert trader again just like Dot Com bubbles. I can only be amused while smacking my head simultaneously. Btw with all the talk about insider trading, what about crypto market manipulation.

Waiting for the next Elon Musk and Mark Cuban pump and dump.

[HHIslander]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

I know a couple other rich kids who had huge raises for their crypto funds. These folks are such parasites. Their only skill is access to capital and ability to spin stories, both of which are a direct result of being born with a silver spoon firmly planted in one’s mouth.

Yep, that's crypto.

We aren't meant to understand it, we're just supposed to buy it. I've had it explained to me ad nauseum and I just don't see how it's worth what the market is pricing it at.

[-RolexMan-]

Originally Posted by 904VT

I’m not one for overregulation to the point of hurting business growth, but seriously how have exchanges and other crypto markets been allowed to operate with no oversight at all when the financial asset management industry is criticized and sued over a few basis points. Idiocracy in the year 2022.

You know buy only cheap index funds that buy baskets high and sell low with market cap but then also buy the equivalent of 1980’s pinks slips/OTC in the form of Crypto. At least some of those OTC generated cash flows. Crypto in 2020’s the decade when everyone thinks they’re an expert trader again just like Dot Com bubbles. I can only be amused while smacking my head simultaneously. Btw with all the talk about insider trading, what about crypto market manipulation.

Exactly on everything stated!

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by HHIslander

Yep, that's crypto.

We aren't meant to understand it, we're just supposed to buy it. I've had it explained to me ad nauseum and I just don't see how it's worth what the market is pricing it at.

And the other Rule of Crypto is that if you didn't cash in, you must be an idiot. Which is basically how high all of high finance operates. All those NASA scientists, professors, soldiers, doctors, novelists, etc. making a living doing what they care about and enjoy? Just weren't smart enough to rip people off.

[huncho]

these guys were the biggest crypto fund and blew up their entire ~15 billion in the 1st quarter of this year. really impressive and the last thing anyone in the space could've ever imagined happening, so they weren't necessarily random schmucks getting loans

the luna collapse which then lead to this took btc down from 40k to 17k in 2 months alone, and eth to < 1000

[Mifune]

Originally Posted by 904VT

I’m not one for overregulation to the point of hurting business growth, but seriously how have exchanges and other crypto markets been allowed to operate with no oversight at all when the financial asset management industry is criticized and sued over a few basis points. Idiocracy in the year 2022.

You know buy only cheap index funds that buy baskets high and sell low with market cap but then also buy the equivalent of 1980’s pinks slips/OTC in the form of Crypto. At least some of those OTC generated cash flows. Crypto in 2020’s the decade when everyone thinks they’re an expert trader again just like Dot Com bubbles. I can only be amused while smacking my head simultaneously. Btw with all the talk about insider trading, what about crypto market manipulation.

I think this ^ idea... trading... is conflating and confusing what crypto assets are. It is this lack of understanding that fuels skepticism by the legacy crowd.

Suffice to say, that regulation for Cryptocurrrencies is a net positive for that space and ALL current and potential participants welcome such oversight.

SOLELY, Bitcoin doesn't suffer from this regulatory imperative because it is NOT a security and has ALREADY been ruled as such... a Commodity.

What happened to LUNA/TERRA, 3AC and Voyager was a cascade of liquidations based on the stability (or lack of stability) of the TERRA stable coin.

When the TERRA token began to experience liquidity swings, it was not sufficiently collateralized to remain pegged to the USD pairing... and therefore collapsed. It was the collapse of that asset caused a cascade down stream of 3AC and Voyager which were both fine organizations but had extreme exposure to the LUNA/TERRA token and could not weather this liquidity storm. There is still investigations going on, and there is a lot of finger pointing and questions that need to be answered by Do Kwan (founder of Terra)... but it does appear that some of this liquidation started internally and may have been purposefully done.

As far as 3AC and Voyager, you can say it was fiduciary mismanagement or you can say it was bad luck but as the entire space is less than 15 years old, it was inevitable that there would be and will continue to be failures and 'Flushing' of the system, but the fact remains that crypto is here to stay and in a few years, NO ONE will remember what happened in 2022.

On a personal note... I use Voyager exclusively for brokering my trades and JUST BEFORE they shut down the exchange I managed to pull off my entire portfolio... I still have friends that have liquidity on there that have lost ten of thousands because the funds are locked in place as they go thru the bankruptcy process. the only good thing is that Voyage and 3AC both have vast quantities of assets in the 10's and 100's a billions of dollars... but those assets need to be worked thru to creditors. I saw what was happening in the space because I closely monitor it on a hourly basis and this allowed me to come to the conclusion that something bad was afoot... like I said, I made it out of voyage with 2 days to spare. No more custody of my assets on exchanges for me, Self custody is the only way.

[BNA/LION]

Crypto? No Thanks. Best of Luck if you're into it.

[Mifune]

Luck... that's an interesting view.

[BNA/LION]

Yes. That's my view.

[Moondoggy]

Crapto.

[cryptotipsinside]

DM if you need more crypto tips and tricks

[904VT]

Originally Posted by Mifune

I think this ^ idea... trading... is conflating and confusing what crypto assets are. It is this lack of understanding that fuels skepticism by the legacy crowd.

Suffice to say, that regulation for Cryptocurrrencies is a net positive for that space and ALL current and potential participants welcome such oversight.

SOLELY, Bitcoin doesn't suffer from this regulatory imperative because it is NOT a security and has ALREADY been ruled as such... a Commodity.

What happened to LUNA/TERRA, 3AC and Voyager was a cascade of liquidations based on the stability (or lack of stability) of the TERRA stable coin.

When the TERRA token began to experience liquidity swings, it was not sufficiently collateralized to remain pegged to the USD pairing... and therefore collapsed. It was the collapse of that asset caused a cascade down stream of 3AC and Voyager which were both fine organizations but had extreme exposure to the LUNA/TERRA token and could not weather this liquidity storm. There is still investigations going on, and there is a lot of finger pointing and questions that need to be answered by Do Kwan (founder of Terra)... but it does appear that some of this liquidation started internally and may have been purposefully done.

As far as 3AC and Voyager, you can say it was fiduciary mismanagement or you can say it was bad luck but as the entire space is less than 15 years old, it was inevitable that there would be and will continue to be failures and 'Flushing' of the system, but the fact remains that crypto is here to stay and in a few years, NO ONE will remember what happened in 2022.

On a personal note... I use Voyager exclusively for brokering my trades and JUST BEFORE they shut down the exchange I managed to pull off my entire portfolio... I still have friends that have liquidity on there that have lost ten of thousands because the funds are locked in place as they go thru the bankruptcy process. the only good thing is that Voyage and 3AC both have vast quantities of assets in the 10's and 100's a billions of dollars... but those assets need to be worked thru to creditors. I saw what was happening in the space because I closely monitor it on a hourly basis and this allowed me to come to the conclusion that something bad was afoot... like I said, I made it out of voyage with 2 days to spare. No more custody of my assets on exchanges for me, Self custody is the only way.

I don’t think I would buy even WTI on an unregulated Wild West exchange. Reminds here of the old stock market of the depression era. I agree I would never leave money on crypto exchanges. Just me but I prefer quality and transparent markets over speculation.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by binArt

Waiting for the next Elon Musk and Mark Cuban pump and dump.

I think crypto is just a currency devaluation tool that allows influentials to game other markets such as energy. I guess that’s one way to get the masses to move out of financial assets before a bubble bursts. Crypto distracts participants from the real markets going on and makes for less money chasing value plays as well when it’s one of the more attractive times to buy with the spread. Actually a positive for big traders with it distracting the meme stock folks with NFTs and cryptos and making the pool of potential buyers smaller. Just my opinion though

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by cryptotipsinside

DM if you need more crypto tips and tricks

[Ferdelious]

Very interesting article. I'm still sticking to regulated securities for the time being.

[huncho]

Originally Posted by Ferdelious

Very interesting article. I'm still sticking to regulated securities for the time being.

regulated is very misleading. large cap stocks are dropping 25% in single after hour moves constantly throughout the year. regulated doesn't really mean much in this context because the stock market is just as manipulated as it's entirely ran by algos today and the only difference is it has circuit breakers and trading halts to limit volatility whereas crypto doesn't, and obviously there's a lot of scams in crypto that go to 0 once devs cash out. regardless though, it doesn't mean money is really any safer in the stock market. imagine you owned netflix last year and it dropped 80% in 6 months. how is this "regulated" security any different in terms of an investment, besides the fact that it's actually a legitimate company that makes billions which doesn't even matter in the end so there's a slight chance you can make it back over a decade

totally different story if you're talking about blue chips vs crypto though but SEC "regulation" does nothing to help retail and everything to help institutions. they were literally shorting more shares of a stock than the public float

[HHIslander]

Originally Posted by huncho

regulated is very misleading. large cap stocks are dropping 25% in single after hour moves constantly throughout the year. regulated doesn't really mean much in this context because the stock market is just as manipulated

If a large cap stock (not counting memes) drops that much after hours, it's due to earnings or bad news. They don't drop like that for no reason.

Crypto can drop for no apparent reason whatsoever. It's not tied to anything. It's entirely a crap shoot.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by huncho

large cap stocks are dropping 25% in single after hour moves constantly throughout the year.

I do not believe this is even close to being true, unless you can cite some examples.

And proper regulation has no effect on actual price moves, allowing a free flowing secondary market is the purpose of regulation.

Edit: I found one for all of 2022

The share price of FB dropped 26% from $323 at the Feb. 2 market close to $237.76. From a market perspective it was a well deserved revaluation based on the massive overbought status of the stock with poor earnings

[huncho]

Originally Posted by HHIslander

If a large cap stock (not counting memes) drops that much after hours, it's due to earnings or bad news. They don't drop like that for no reason.

Crypto can drop for no apparent reason whatsoever. It's not tied to anything. It's entirely a crap shoot.

i get it, there's almost always a catalyst to volatility when it comes to stocks. my point was just that the stock market being regulated has very minimal impact on retail traders. yeah you can put 10k into a random crypto and wake up to it being 0, but you can also put 10k into giant tech stocks of companies that make billions of dollars (versus non profitable vaporware scams in crypto) and watch it go down to 1k in half a year. you're only safe if you buy blue chips or S&P

the idea of after hours trading only (imo) adds to the manipulation. if the market was properly regulated they wouldn't route retail orders through dark pools and let algos dump on low volume after hours when most people can't/don't trade

[huncho]

Originally Posted by beshannon

I do not believe this is even close to being true, unless you can cite some examples.

And proper regulation has no effect on actual price moves, allowing a free flowing secondary market is the purpose of regulation.

netflix jan 20 close 507, jan 21 open ~400 - 20% down move
netflix apr 19 close 347, apr 20 open 238 - 30% down move (closed at 226 -35%)

meta feb 2 close ~325, feb 3 open 245 - 24% down move

snap oct 21 close 75, oct 22 open 58 - 22% down move. followed by 34% drop in may, 35% drop in july

amzn july 28 close 122, july 29 open 134 - 10% up move which is over 100 billion in market cap in after hours

to the bolded part - so you're saying institutions should be allowed to short 140% of a stocks public float and that's just a free flowing market? countless examples of stuff like this to manipulate price

[HHIslander]

Originally Posted by huncho

i get it, there's almost always a catalyst to volatility when it comes to stocks. my point was just that the stock market being regulated has very minimal impact on retail traders. yeah you can put 10k into a random crypto and wake up to it being 0, but you can also put 10k into giant tech stocks of companies that make billions of dollars (versus non profitable vaporware scams in crypto) and watch it go down to 1k in half a year. you're only safe if you buy blue chips or S&P

the idea of after hours trading only (imo) adds to the manipulation. if the market was properly regulated they wouldn't route retail orders through dark pools and let algos dump on low volume after hours when most people can't/don't trade

Agreed, after hours is problematic. Which is I why I rarely hold anything overnight that I can't sell 24/7. Dark pools are a mess too, but that's not as bad as it used to before the regulators started sniffing around. I have found that if you stick to highly liquid large caps, it's far less of a problem. But when it comes to smaller ones, it's indeed a mess. The whole BBBY disaster is proof of what you are saying.

[huncho]

Originally Posted by HHIslander

Agreed, after hours is problematic. Which is I why I rarely hold anything overnight that I can't sell 24/7. Dark pools are a mess too, but that's not as bad as it used to before the regulators started sniffing around. I have found that if you stick to highly liquid large caps, it's far less of a problem. But when it comes to smaller ones, it's indeed a mess. The whole BBBY disaster is proof of what you are saying.

yeah exactly, both markets have their own problems and i can admit that. i've constantly said here that 99% of crypto is a scam with projects constantly getting rugged but when people bring up regulation it just tells me they only trade blue chips or invest in giant ETFs. a huge amount of the stock market is a giant shit show that is manipulated to hell and i get it, don't hate the player, hate the game

this idea that the SEC is out to help people is blatantly false. look at how much evidence there is of insider trading too and nothing is being done. the only time anything was done was when members of the fed were conveniently told they can't trade anymore in oct/nov due to conflicts of interest. ironically the actual top of the bull run lol

BBBY thing was hilarious too. RC buys enough of the company to not be an insider then loads up with OTM calls and sells the top because he can create a top knowing that his news will cause a dump

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by beshannon

I do not believe this is even close to being true, unless you can cite some examples.

And proper regulation has no effect on actual price moves, allowing a free flowing secondary market is the purpose of regulation.

Regulation makes markets more “free flowing” than when unregulated? That’s news to me. Most securities regulation in the US is a disclosure-based regime, and since hardly anyone ever reads those endless disclosures, it’s a cost that slows things down.

I think the secondary market would work fine without the government — Hong Kong, for example, has hardly any financial regulation compared to the US, but the Hang Seng fills the gap with stricter listing standards than the NYSE or NASDAQ impose.

Crypto is a scam IMO not because exchanges need better circuit breakers — that’s an easy fix — but because by design there are minimal protections on your ownership rights. Try to deposit Bitcoin Cash into a Bitcoin wallet, which people accidentally do all the time? Poof, your money is gone. Forget your access code or key? Poof, money is gone.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by huncho

large cap stocks are dropping 25% in single after hour moves constantly throughout the year.



netflix jan 20 close 507, jan 21 open ~400 - 20% down move
netflix apr 19 close 347, apr 20 open 238 - 30% down move (closed at 226 -35%)

meta feb 2 close ~325, feb 3 open 245 - 24% down move

snap oct 21 close 75, oct 22 open 58 - 22% down move. followed by 34% drop in may, 35% drop in july

amzn july 28 close 122, july 29 open 134 - 10% up move which is over 100 billion in market cap in after hours

to the bolded part - so you're saying institutions should be allowed to short 140% of a stocks public float and that's just a free flowing market? countless examples of stuff like this to manipulate price

Got it, good luck to you. You cited the same one stock I did and I have no idea what that has to do with shorting stocks and the amount of float.

It was clearly a mistake to try to have a discussion on this forum. You seem to have an agenda.