Is there a brand that you think is superior to Patek Philippe?

[Jack T]

Difference between top brand and top quality. There are other manufacturers that produce top quality timepieces, as good or better, but Patek is the most prestigious, the top brand.

[nilfire77]

Originally Posted by ggencer

Well. For saving value, finishing and quality Patek is always best.

For the quality and mechanism we can say that ALS can match Patek.

As a RM owner I should admit that RM is just a new boy. Not fair to compare with those grandmasters...

JLC is good brand but it is not playing in the same league of Patek, ALS, VC, AP and even Breguet.

Obviously, Patek would want us consumers to believe so. But the truth is only Patek's top drawer products could vie for the best finishing and quality in serially produced watches amidst contenders like VC and ALS. It's hard to believe until you take out a loupe and see for yourself:

Note:
1) Scores given below are based on my personal opinion and are thus subjective.
2) Vertical machining marks on bevel - A good indicator that the bevelling is not so "hand finished" as claimed.

[singe89]

Brand vs brand is too complex. I think AP makes much better sport watches and complex movements from APRP. I think ALS offers better finishing but I think Patek still makes the best luxury dress watch with all aspects being considered (History, finishing, complexity, independence, value retention, brand notoriety, etc.)

[KarlS]

I wonder how people would score finish and movements without knowing themsnufactyrer at all!!

[vintage69]

Originally Posted by Stuxnet

Stradivari and Guaneri for sure.

What about Amati?

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by KarlS

Cogitating on this. I think we missing the point. We think brand equates to the best watch. Hence why I mentioned the independents. But as a brand I think there are only 2. Rolex and PP. Most people would know them and I guess in USA more Rolex. If not then I will vote Apple, Coca Cola, MacDonalds etc

Brand recognition, for the average bloke on the street, wouldn't include Patek — more likely TAG Heuer and Omega, which is no surprise given that they're two of the four biggest mass produced luxury watch manufacturers.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by subtona

And as pointed out, dufour is 34mm and virtually unavailable to the masses... How can it compete here?

34 & 37mm
Peter Chong's (the photo you've used) is 37mm.

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by PJ S

Brand recognition, for the average bloke on the street, wouldn't include Patek — more likely TAG Heuer and Omega, which is no surprise given that they're two of the four biggest mass produced luxury watch manufacturers.

That's a bit sad....almost like enjoying your Toyota and never hearing of Rolls Royce! Oh well!!

[Stuxnet]

Originally Posted by vintage69

What about Amati?

Nicolo Amati, not Andrea Amati, would compare with the early Strads. Pre 1695. And not compared to any Golden Period Strads from 1705-1720. Guaneri del Gesu would blow away any Amati. And so would some Gaudanginis, and even some Vuillames. Amarts are prized more for the label of being the first violins. I once tried a decent $125k Vuillame that was better than any Amati I've heard.

But as brands go, Stradivari is the most counterfeited brand in the world. The violins are tools, used by demanding musicians everyday. We worry about "is it safe" and scratches and wear on a $100,000 watch. Professional musicians are flying 200,000 miles with a piece of 300 year old wood and pushing these instruments to their limits. And no Strad or Guaneri has lost value. Can't find one for less than $3m now.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by KarlS

That's a bit sad....almost like enjoying your Toyota and never hearing of Rolls Royce! Oh well!!

Not sad at all. How I often long for the old days before I'd heard of brands like Patek, and such things as TRF! Ingorance is truly bliss my friend, and if the Toyota satisfies your needs, why ruin the ignorance of illusion with the Rolls.

Red pill or blue pill?

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by Tony64

Not sad at all. How I often long for the old days before I'd heard of brands like Patek, and such things as TRF! Ingorance is truly bliss my friend, and if the Toyota satisfies your needs, why ruin the ignorance of illusion with the Rolls.

Red pill or blue pill?

Now I am truly depressed. Better look for a watch!

Man cannot aspire if he looked down; if he rise, he must look up.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by KarlS

Now I am truly depressed. Better look for a watch!

Man cannot aspire if he looked down; if he rise, he must look up.

How about "don't judge a man by his watch"?

[subtona]

Originally Posted by PJ S

is 37mm.

Patek is 38mm

[enjoythemusic]

Nilfire77, thanks for posting that comparo. Due to a relative recent acquisition of a camera lens and camera that can really get close up and magnify, it further convinced me about the 'quality in finish' of modern Pateks. Hopefully the company realizes their many errors and hires a proper consultant to assist in bringing back quality to their production both mechanically and visually.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by KarlS

That's a bit sad....almost like enjoying your Toyota and never hearing of Rolls Royce! Oh well!!

Doesn't work with car brands though — too much exposure to the ordinary folk.

The reason watches are different, is because you'll find TAG Heuer, Rolex, Omega, Breitling in far more jewellery stores than the likes of JLC, Patek, VC, etc — therefore exposure will be limited as a result.
If you don't visit Tiffanys, you won't typically be aware of their own brand of watches, let alone certain models of Patek with their name also on the dial.
If you don't visit a Wempe store or website, you'll be oblivious to their own branded watches and special editions from AP and Patek, amongst others.
It's all pretty obvious really, especially since we don't represent the bigger buying market — at a guess, I'd say we're barely more than 1.5% of the market.

[Narbeh]

the only brand superior to Patek is Patek.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by subtona

Patek is 38mm

Maybe, but we were talking about the Philippe Dufour Simplicity, the photo of which you've used, is one of Peter's.
His is 37mm.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by PJ S

Maybe, but we were talking about the Philippe Dufour Simplicity, the photo of which you've used, is one of Peter's.
His is 37mm.

Maybe it Doesn't create a complete picture when the message is chopped up?

Do you have your own position on the OP question?

Ps peters name is clearly indicated on the photo, you've now name drooped twice, to what point?

[topcat30093]

Originally Posted by Tony64

Not sad at all. How I often long for the old days before I'd heard of brands like Patek, and such things as TRF! Ingorance is truly bliss my friend, and if the Toyota satisfies your needs, why ruin the ignorance of illusion with the Rolls.

Red pill or blue pill?

Tony, that oh so true

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by PJ S

Maybe, but we were talking about the Philippe Dufour Simplicity, the photo of which you've used, is one of Peter's.
His is 37mm.

Quite correct. And while on the topic of Philippe Dufour, it's worth noting that when the 37mm version was introduced following the success of the 34mm, it wasn't just a simple matter of putting the same movement in a larger case. He meticulously expanded the plates so that it would fit the 37mm case without a movement ring. No shortcuts, and quite the contrast to what Patek Philippe has done with their own simple Calatrava.

[Jack T]

Originally Posted by KarlS

That's a bit sad....almost like enjoying your Toyota and never hearing of Rolls Royce! Oh well!!

I don't think it's sad, we all have our hobbies, passions, diversions, and distractions. Sports, music, fishing, model trains, people derive enjoyment in their own particular way. The world of watches is a fairly narrow slice, let's not turn into wine snobs here.

[capote]

Originally Posted by nilfire77

Obviously, Patek would want us consumers to believe so. But the truth is only Patek's top drawer products could vie for the best finishing and quality in serially produced watches amidst contenders like VC and ALS. It's hard to believe until you take out a loupe and see for yourself:

Note:
1) Scores given below are based on my personal opinion and are thus subjective.
2) Vertical machining marks on bevel - A good indicator that the bevelling is not so "hand finished" as claimed.

Very interesting. This is actually the first time I see a finish comparison instead of the knee-jerk "Patek's finishing is superior". It would be interesting to see a comparison between the Lemania movements used by both PP and VC.

On another note they seems to rely heavily on the 240 movement - from the 70's. Golden Ellipse, world timer, perpetual calendar and even the celestial.

[Hollister]

Originally Posted by capote

Very interesting. This is actually the first time I see a finish comparison instead of the knee-jerk "Patek's finishing is superior".

I've seen photos like those before. Patek currently produce around 50,000 watches a year, and it shows. My tastes are drifting away from PP towards the smaller independent companies who are producing some really interesting pieces.

I'm very taken with this new watch from Gronefeld:

http://www.ablogtowatch.com/gronefel...ontoire-watch/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYSxAoD9lvo

Way more fun than a PP.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by capote

Very interesting. This is actually the first time I see a finish comparison instead of the knee-jerk "Patek's finishing is superior". It would be interesting to see a comparison between the Lemania movements used by both PP and VC.

On another note they seems to rely heavily on the 240 movement - from the 70's. Golden Ellipse, world timer, perpetual calendar and even the celestial.

Pateks 240 is about as reliable and trouble free movement as you're likely to find. True, it's been around for ages, but it works superbly so why change it?

[enjoythemusic]

Hollister, my feelings echo yours as there are truly amazing manufacturers that are far ahead of Patek in finishing and details to movement. Am impressed what some independents are doing with very innovative designs. Patek is getting too mainstream and mass produced, and like you said it is showing.

Here are some examples of many http://www.watchprosite.com/?page=wf...&pzt=0#fs:1232

[capote]

Originally Posted by Tony64

Pateks 240 is about as reliable and trouble free movement as you're likely to find. True, it's been around for ages, but it works superbly so why change it?

Sure, I see you point. It works for Rolex, but on the other hand, Patek is viewed as being on the very top. If I remember correctly, when Lange was introduced they made five watches with five different movements and when they released the Datograph Patek still relied on Lemania ebauches for their chronographs. I just think it is an interesting discussion.

[shnxx]

As an entry level Patek owner, I drank the Patek kool-aid, but I definitely think other brands offer technically and visually more interesting products at the same price.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by capote

Sure, I see you point. It works for Rolex, but on the other hand, Patek is viewed as being on the very top. If I remember correctly, when Lange was introduced they made five watches with five different movements and when they released the Datograph Patek still relied on Lemania ebauches for their chronographs. I just think it is an interesting discussion.

Fair enough, and you've made some excellent observations. What works so well with the Patek 240 though, is it's such a thin automatic movement thanks to the microrotor. That makes it an extremely useful base movement for their more complicated pieces without making the watch prohibitively thick.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by subtona

Maybe it Doesn't create a complete picture when the message is chopped up?

Do you have your own position on the OP question?

Ps peters name is clearly indicated on the photo, you've now name drooped twice, to what point?

Gus, please tell me that you’re just having a senior moment.
Go back to your post, look at it, read it, then look at my reply, paying particular attention to the part which I quoted.
It’s really not that difficult to follow.

My position is well documented in various threads, so no need to go over old ground again.

As for Peter and I – bestest chums ever, even though we’ve never met.
Just like you and I now!

[lapince]

Originally Posted by nilfire77

Obviously, Patek would want us consumers to believe so. But the truth is only Patek's top drawer products could vie for the best finishing and quality in serially produced watches amidst contenders like VC and ALS. It's hard to believe until you take out a loupe and see for yourself:

Note:
1) Scores given below are based on my personal opinion and are thus subjective.
2) Vertical machining marks on bevel - A good indicator that the bevelling is not so "hand finished" as claimed.

Oh the difference is huge, but I'll take any day of the week basically any Nautilus or Aquanaut over the Simplicity, sure I like good finishing, but it's not the top factor for me, just one of many, and it's the only positive factor of the Dufour over the ones I cited for me, if you like an ultra classical small sized dress watch then sure it's a great choice, but I typically don't like this kind of watches