Why the 'investment' snobbery?

[Dr.Brian]

Originally Posted by Nikita70

Say you buy a watch for $8,000 today. In ten years you sell it for $6,000. Have you lost $2,000? Depends on the rate of inflation, if you ask me.

Exactly. If you're going to consider a watch an investment, you have to take into account what would have happened to that money if you kept your old watch or picked up a couple $100 Quartz ones instead and actually invested the $8k.
You're losing a lot more than $2000 when you sell it for the upgrade 10 years on.
However, if you assume that you're going to buy some kind of fine watch and upgrade a few times over the decades, there are certainly brands and models that will retain their value better than most. If you fancy them, that's probably a smarter place to park your growing watch "fund".
Ask some of the Panerai collectors how their investment fared over the last few years.
If I wanted to speculate, I'd probably do it in some rare and original classic cars, not watches.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by AK797

I agree with these points, it's a luxury forum and we are all already very privileged to own these great watches so talk of making more money is a bit much plus we are here for the love of the pieces. I love that we talk here about hustling and getting discounts, even from members with big collections, and that we are not blasé about the price of these luxuries. I think most of us do not come from money and so we know our Dads would thrash us to within an inch of our lives even with their zimmerframes if we didn't get the best deal we could.

The point about new members I think is key, we don't want guys joining here just to try and make a fast buck, if the value of your watch rises that is great but that should be a minor ancillary benefit.

[CaveDweller]

I bought my first Rolex in 1988, a new SS DJ from a high street dealer, it cost £1000 (pounds)

I got talked into it by a friend, who argued that when you consider how much I was likely to spend on watches over the years, then why not get one good one and keep it – besides, you get to wear a Rolex ….

Seemed to make sense

During the years I have had this watch, I must have spent a grand on servicing, and when you consider that £1000 in 1988 is equivalent to £1900 today, that all adds up to just under 3 grand – which is roughly what my watch is worth on the market (fully serviced by RSC)

This means that I break even, but I have had the pleasure of wearing a Rolex for the last 30 years – effectively for free

No great shakes in the “investment” department, but you have to admit, the situation has a lot going for it

Truth is, no one could have predicted this 30 years ago, just as no-one can predict what will happen in the future. At the end of the day, a watch is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it, anything else is pure speculation. This brings to mind some good advice on collecting anything – choose something that you get a kick out of owning, and if you can get a profit after that, all well and good, but inevitably, profit (being unpredictable) is the last thing you should be thinking about

The “snobs” (imaginary or not) will always be with us, with (according to them) vastly superior watches, worth (as far as they are concerned) far more than they paid for them. Sure, some “flips” work out well, but often that’s more to do with incidental luck than judgement (or we’d all be doing it)

There are a vast amount of opinions on this board, and it’s up to you which one’s matter. Very often, it’s the quietly spoken ones who take pleasure in showing off their examples that count to me. You can spot a “snob” a mile off, so why does that bother you ?

Besides – as long as they keep the prices up – who cares – lol ………

[Relyt]

I think a better word we could use would be an ASSET. Between my Rolex and a collection of a plethora of things not allowed to be mentioned on this forum I have a plan.... IF I were to come into a horrid financial situation where I had to make some money, I could sell the watch and other items and have a nice cushion.

Granted this would be for a loss, BUT it is money I have tied up in tangible objects. Compared to if I were to just spend it all on a vacation or a car that depreciates much more.

So I think we can probably trade the word investment for "assets".

That's my two pennies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Goin2drt]

I would end the investment conversation and buying watches as if someone was to ask a question, "hey I like these two models, which one do you think will holds its value the best over time?" Then you can provide a speculative answer to help someone out.

That is about it. Plain and simple watches should not be an investment. All these examples of flipping yeezy's and ceramics Daytona's. That is not investment. That is being resourceful, having connections and resaling for profit while something is hot. Most people can't even get those items. Investing anyone can do and the "investment" is easily attainable if you have the money. Then will the "investment" go up or down is the gamble.

[77T]

Originally Posted by CaveDweller

I bought my first Rolex in 1988, a new SS DJ from a high street dealer, it cost £1000 (pounds)

I got talked into it by a friend, who argued that when you consider how much I was likely to spend on watches over the years, then why not get one good one and keep it – besides, you get to wear a Rolex ….

Seemed to make sense

During the years I have had this watch, I must have spent a grand on servicing, and when you consider that £1000 in 1988 is equivalent to £1900 today, that all adds up to just under 3 grand – which is roughly what my watch is worth on the market (fully serviced by RSC)

This means that I break even, but I have had the pleasure of wearing a Rolex for the last 30 years – effectively for free

No great shakes in the “investment” department, but you have to admit, the situation has a lot going for it

Truth is, no one could have predicted this 30 years ago, just as no-one can predict what will happen in the future. At the end of the day, a watch is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it, anything else is pure speculation. This brings to mind some good advice on collecting anything – choose something that you get a kick out of owning, and if you can get a profit after that, all well and good, but inevitably, profit (being unpredictable) is the last thing you should be thinking about

The “snobs” (imaginary or not) will always be with us, with (according to them) vastly superior watches, worth (as far as they are concerned) far more than they paid for them. Sure, some “flips” work out well, but often that’s more to do with incidental luck than judgement (or we’d all be doing it)

There are a vast amount of opinions on this board, and it’s up to you which one’s matter. Very often, it’s the quietly spoken ones who take pleasure in showing off their examples that count to me. You can spot a “snob” a mile off, so why does that bother you ?

Besides – as long as they keep the prices up – who cares – lol ………

Yes the DJ just didn't take off in value like the Subs, SDs and GMTs. But you do have a great lifelong piece in a DJ from that time.

[hsfrank]

Originally Posted by Chiboy

I haven't noticed the animosity regarding the investment aspect of buying a Rolex, but to me, it's missing the point. Buying a new Rolex, or any non-vintage Rolex is a little like buying a new car. You are probably fooling yourself if you justify it as an "investment." Especially when you factor in the cost to insure it (perhaps 1%/year), as well as the cost of service (perhaps $50-$100 on average per year). Unless you are buying a vintage piece for big money and know what you are doing, you perhaps should be honest with yourself and say, "I want it. I can afford it. It tends to depreciate slower than most other luxury brands. And if inflation kicks up and the retail price rises fast enough, I may even make a little money on it if/when I sell it."

IMO, that's about as far as the "investment" discussion should go. But I tend to ignore the comments here I find objectionable, so I don't get to phased by anything I read here.

I couldn't of said it better myself

[breitlings]

Same thing happens on ferrari chat. I believe they do not want institutional money driving up prices for people who would appreciate them.

[ronricks]

No modern mass produced Rolex is a good 'investment'.

[77T]

This modern Rolex might be - but your sponsors will spend about a million to win one...

[yannis]

Daytona 116520 was 6550 in 2004 and 12000 in 2014. Almost doubled in a decade.
Source: https://www.minus4plus6.com/PriceEvolution.php

[Jay (Eire)]

Originally Posted by JSolano305

Exactly. I had 13 pairs. Kept one for me. Flipped the rest at $600 each. Paid $235.40 retail. Next Saturday 2/25 its gonna be another good yeezy release. Zebras are coming. I'm scheduled to get 10 pairs. Will flip easy for $1,000. People don't understand how hard it is to even buy 1 pair of yeezys at retail. I'm plugged though. I'm a big buyer. Elite re seller. Just like there's trusted sellers on here with watches...I'm a trusted seller on all the places I resale. You'll be surprised how good the fakes have become now a days. I've had to learn about fakes and how to tell them apart. But I just don't flip yeezys. Limited Jordan releases. A lot of adidas ultraboost/nmd's/xr1's/human races and what not.

You two guys are killing me, I've been on the confirmed app and the adidas websites both in the US and EU trying to get a pair for all the releases and nada. My wife too. Not one pair.

Not sure the Zebras are that interesting to me, if I grab a pair It would be to flip for something else.

Happy sneaking!

[Jay (Eire)]

Originally Posted by Token74

Hey guys

Why do people on here get so hot under the collar when a fellow forum member mentions the word investment? Or when someone suggests a watch may go up in value (I.e. If the Sea Dweller were to be discontinued).

There are some seriously wealthy people on here and that's great, but there are also people who have to save really hard to buy a Rolex and every penny counts. The people who have had to save super hard and make other compromises to afford their Rolex have just as much right to wear a nice watch and to ask questions on this forum, and who can blame them for caring about future value?

I hear people suggest that the days of people making big profits on small production-volume Rolexes are over, but the Daytona is arguably disproving that theory.

And by big profits, that's all relative! If the SD were to be discontinued and as a result went up in value by 10%, for some people that would be significant.

I have a Ceramic Daytona that I could have turned over for an overnight £5k profit; despite me not being wealthy, I equally have averything 'important' in my life so wasn't interested in profit. But for many people that would be hugely significant, and I don't blame them one bit.

So rather than be negative to people who ask questions on future value based on ifs and buts, how about we just be nice and helpful.

Vince, valid question. I think it's a combination of things.

As others have said some of these responses need to be filtered out as no matter what the subject you also get some who want to shout the loudest.

Some of the others which sound a little frustrated could be down to this question being asked time and time again, in which case I'm ok with a little of this frustration so long as it's not nasty.

More will simply be due to people not wanting the OP to make a grave mistake. I like to think that in most cases the over zealous responses are coming from a good place. We all recognize there is serious money involved here and nobody wants another forum member to buy into something blindly and risk more money that he/she had thought because someone else had them believe a, b or c Rolex was a good investment.

Personally I don't believe any modern Rolex has (long term) investment value. But that's just me. Do I think some have a solid residual value in both the short and more so long term, absolutely.

Flipping, which is addresses your reference of the current Daytona premiums and others comments re some of the supply imbalances between different countries, is a different question. No one doubts there is money to be made flipping.

[douglasf13]

Originally Posted by Micha

I doubt your statement, unless you NEVER sold a Rolex and would NEVER anticipate in doing so!

I've sold a few Rolex watches (among other brands) and lost money every time.

This reminds me of the local Porsche club. I see gents who own great 911s from the air-cooled era, some of them purchased for relative pennies, but, now that vintage Porsche prices have run up so quickly over the last decade, they're starting to become afraid to drive the cars, because now they're suddenly an investment.

I just look at buying fun things like this as a complete loss, and, if I ever sell and receive any money back, that's a bonus, but it's not the raison d'être. It seems like there are a lot of Rolex forum goers who buy watches and worry about the price performance from the beginning, so they fret about every scratch, and that doesn't sound like much fun.

[JSolano305]

Originally Posted by Jay (Eire)

You two guys are killing me, I've been on the confirmed app and the adidas websites both in the US and EU trying to get a pair for all the releases and nada. My wife too. Not one pair.

Not sure the Zebras are that interesting to me, if I grab a pair It would be to flip for something else.

Happy sneaking!

A lot of my pairs of YEEZY's I cop at retail. But I buy resale to flip at resale. Miami sneaker game is huge. There's a lot of sneaker stores/sneaker boutiques/footlockers/footaction/champs/consignment shops everywhere. I'm plugged directly with owners/managers/employees. In the end everybody makes money...gets a piece of the pie. On an average on a YEEZY release I drop between 7K-10K (cash) easily. I have a lot of pre sold pairs and whats left over I flip within hours.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by douglasf13

To me the criticism simply lies in monetizing a fun interest/hobby. I'd love it if the value of all Rolex watches dropped to zero, so that people would simply wear what they like and not worry about scratching their watches. I worry about the cost of buying my watch, but I don't worry about the value after I buy it. I'd actually be annoyed if the value of my watch shot up so much that it made me second guess whether to wear it.

I like your philosophy Douglas, and agree that monetizing the hobby often detracts from one's enjoyment. The French had it right, l'art pour l'art", no need to overanalyze. Appreciation of the beauty is enough.

I take particular umbrage when members delight in discontinuation from the catalogue of a watch they own. Their anticipated monetary gain, for something they enjoyed prior to such knowledge, blinds them to the deprivation of other enthusiasts. Hardly the foundation of enlightened and collegial watch discussion.

Hoping for ROI beyond the smile on one's face is a road to disappointment.

[ap1]

Originally Posted by yannis7777

Daytona 116520 was 6550 in 2004 and 12000 in 2014. Almost doubled in a decade.
Source: https://www.minus4plus6.com/PriceEvolution.php

Will it be 24000 in 2024? Hard to see it but I don't have a crystal ball

[Jay (Eire)]

Originally Posted by JSolano305

A lot of my pairs of YEEZY's I cop at retail. But I buy resale to flip at resale. Miami sneaker game is huge. There's a lot of sneaker stores/sneaker boutiques/footlockers/footaction/champs/consignment shops everywhere. I'm plugged directly with owners/managers/employees. In the end everybody makes money...gets a piece of the pie. On an average on a YEEZY release I drop between 7K-10K (cash) easily. I have a lot of pre sold pairs and whats left over I flip within hours.

I'm pretty familiar with the scene, I just don't have any store contacts and am not interested enough to develop them. It's for the power buyers/sellers and not for the one pair here one pair there guy. Before I moved to the US I did have good store contacts, however that was before the sneaker resale game really took off and also in a country that did not have the same sneaker culture.

I'm a AJ V guy. Was my first real sneaker back in the day. The Yeezy I've just come around to really. It took a while. Also prefer the darker colourways, hence my comment that the Zebra isn't that interesting to me.

[yannis]

Originally Posted by ap1

Will it be 24000 in 2024? Hard to see it but I don't have a crystal ball

I wouldn't know man
If so lucky Daytona guys.

[DeeTee]

I think one of the posters is right, it's not so much the investment appreciation. It's more of how strong of an asset they are at purchase. For lots of people a Rolex purchase is a big deal, they want to know if they drop 10k that they can get most of their money back in case something comes up or if they are serial flippers.


And to the Miami dude who gets all the Yeezy's...... your a savage
(Save a 10.5 for me with a TRF discount!)

[BNA/LION]

One man's Watch is another man's Investment and vice versa. It is all really about what you like, want, enjoy and can reasonably afford.

If you can make a few bucks on a watch you bought then that is a good thing. If you are buying a watch in the belief, hope or betting it will increase in value I think there are other Investments that would make more sense. IMHO

[artschool]

YEEZY BOOST by Kanye West.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzNXfsJRijg

[JSolano305]

Originally Posted by artschool

YEEZY BOOST by Kanye West.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzNXfsJRijg

[artschool]

Originally Posted by JSolano305

at least he makes good looking trainers

[JSolano305]

Originally Posted by artschool

at least he makes good looking trainers

I've been to 2 of his concerts. YEEZUS tour and Saint Pablo Tour. Both good performances. I listen to his music. His albums are on my top playlist on my Spotify.

[Etschell]

One word, inflation

[SC11]

Originally Posted by haberdashery

What size are you?

UK 9.5 mate, seen a few from resellers but price is crazy!

[Alexwwjd]

Originally Posted by Token74

Hey guys



Why do people on here get so hot under the collar when a fellow forum member mentions the word investment? Or when someone suggests a watch may go up in value (I.e. If the Sea Dweller were to be discontinued).



There are some seriously wealthy people on here and that's great, but there are also people who have to save really hard to buy a Rolex and every penny counts. The people who have had to save super hard and make other compromises to afford their Rolex have just as much right to wear a nice watch and to ask questions on this forum, and who can blame them for caring about future value?



I hear people suggest that the days of people making big profits on small production-volume Rolexes are over, but the Daytona is arguably disproving that theory.



And by big profits, that's all relative! If the SD were to be discontinued and as a result went up in value by 10%, for some people that would be significant.



I have a Ceramic Daytona that I could have turned over for an overnight £5k profit; despite me not being wealthy, I equally have averything 'important' in my life so wasn't interested in profit. But for many people that would be hugely significant, and I don't blame them one bit.



So rather than be negative to people who ask questions on future value based on ifs and buts, how about we just be nice and helpful.

Totally agree sir. Positive attitude.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rock]

If I had a buck for every time I have heard a woman refer to her diamond engagement ring as an "investment" I'd be able to buy an SS Daytona.
"It was soooo expensive, but it's an investment of course."
Some folks feel the need to try to justify the purchase of expensive items.

[J!m]

I picked up my 9411 just before the prices went silly. I think it was 2 grand or slightly under. I added a mint 93150 for 800. Call it 3 grand all in with the Crystal and crown.

I can get close to double that now. But I won't, because I do this for the live of the watch; not for the love of money.

If you love money, save it or invest it wisely.

If you love watches, save or invest your money wisely so you have the money available to spend.