stolen watch at rsc

[rootbeer7]

My father was at RSC St James this afternoon and overheard a gentleman handing over his new-to-him gold watch to be serviced. Unfortunately for him it was reported stolen and was taken. The staff were very sympathetic as he'd only just bought it (yesterday) from a London company (we believe online rather than bricks and mortar) although it was picked up in the City. They gave him a receipt and told him to contact the seller. Just goes to prove it's always worth contacting Rolex if the worst happens.

[TheRolexKingofLV]

I feel sorry for the gent who bought the watch and most likely new nothing of the theft.

The good news is, somebody is getting there stolen Rolex back

[And1dre]

Originally Posted by TheRolexKingofLV

I feel sorry for the gent who bought the watch and most likely new nothing of the theft.

The good news is, somebody is getting there stolen Rolex back

Agree with this

[andyxxx]

I thought that in the UK, if you bought something in good faith and did not suspect it had been stolen, the goods remained yours????

If the person (who had it stolen) is re-united with the watch and had been paid out on insurance - would the insurance company now own it, or would the person just refund the insurance company?

[DeeTee]

My only issue with this policy is if their are insurance scammers involved.
Rolex should hold on to it until everything is resolved.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by andyxxx

I thought that in the UK, if you bought something in good faith and did not suspect it had been stolen, the goods remained yours????

. . .

I don't think that this is the law anywhere.

In most countries the "good faith" law simply means that you won't be prosecuted for having stolen the property, or engaged in commerce of stolen goods. But you don't get to keep somebody else's property.

If an insurance claim was paid out, it is up to negotiation with the insurance company and the victim of the crime, not you.

You're only recourse is to go after the seller to recover your funds or to determine if he, too, was the victim of a crime or the criminal.

[JnmEaton]

i had a customer we paid a "lost watch" claim........... he later found it and brought it to us. We then sent it to the claims department.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by andyxxx

I thought that in the UK, if you bought something in good faith and did not suspect it had been stolen, the goods remained yours????

If the person (who had it stolen) is re-united with the watch and had been paid out on insurance - would the insurance company now own it, or would the person just refund the insurance company?

No, it will go back to the original owner or their insurance firm if they paid out a claim.

[andyxxx]

Originally Posted by Tools

If an insurance claim was paid out, it is up to negotiation with the insurance company and the victim of the crime, not you.:

Yes – sorry I meant would the victim own the returned watch and return the insurance money, or does the insurance company own the returned watch

[Tools]

Originally Posted by andyxxx

Yes – sorry I meant would the victim own the returned watch and return the insurance money, or does the insurance company own the returned watch

This would be the "negotiation" part. The insurance company would be the legal owner at this point, but most insurance companies don't really want to own your stuff. They do, however, like to recover their pay-out.

[andyxxx]

Originally Posted by AK797

No, it will go back to the original owner or their insurance firm if they paid out a claim.

So if the insurance company paid out the claim, it now owns the stolen watch and can do what they like with it ???? Surely not? -It could be worth way more than the amount they paid out and therefor it's in their interest to sell it on the open market.

Yet it could be priceless to the original owner (lets say) for sentimental reasons.

[yannis]

In many jurisdictions (parts of Canada, France, Germany, Israel, Italy, Spain, Mexico) there is the market overt rule (or an equivalent) where if stolen goods are transferred to a dealer and then sold by the merchant dealer to a bona fide purchaser, the purchaser's rights prevail over the original owner's under the market overt rule.

If anyone wants to deepen their understanding and has the courage to go through a (mostly) legal text on the issue i suggest you read Schwaztz, A., Rethinking the Laws of Good Faith Purchase, 2011, Yale Law School, Columbia Law Review, Vol. 111:1132.

It is a good (very good actually) comparative analysis and philosophical approach on the matter for all interested in deepening their understanding of what is meant by good faith purchase and how legislatures have dealt with the issue.

In a nutshell the laws about good faith purchase of stolen goods are not universal; rather they vary from country to country. Also it is not a black or white issue there are conflicting interests at stake and striking a balance is not as easy as some may rush to think.

This is exacerbated in the light of transnational transactions where it hard to determine which jurisdiction applies and whose courts have jurisdiction over the issue.

[Chewbacca]

what a mess.

[texasmade]

Insurance companies aren't in the business of determining market value of watches. They manage risk and will want their pay-out returned instead of keeping the watch.

[andyxxx]

Originally Posted by texasmade

Insurance companies aren't in the business of determining market value of watches. They manage risk and will want their pay-out returned instead of keeping the watch.

Insurance companies are in the business to make as much profit as possible.

According to what I have read here:
If they paid out an insurance settlement of lets say 2000 for a watch that is obviously worth 10000, they could quite easily sell it on the open market without the original owner ever even knowing it had been recovered.

[runner911]

In the UK the following applies.

The lawful owner of property has " Title " to that property .

If a thief unlawfully appropriates such property by theft, criminal deception etc. , although he has possession of the property he does not have " Title. "

If he then sells the stolen property to a buyer , even though the buyer may pay an acceptable price , even retail price, he does not have " Title " as the thief cannot pass on what he does not have in the first place.

The property remains that of the original owner until such time as he accepts a pay out from an Insurance Company , if applicable.

" Title " to the property then passes to the Insurance Company.

I'm afraid the unsuspecting buyer of stolen property is left with nothing. He may however apply to the Court for compensation if the thief is prosecuted , but even if the Court orders compensation it is rarely paid because the thief invariably has nothing with which to pay .

Hope that is clear to everyone.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by andyxxx

Insurance companies are in the business to make as much profit as possible.

According to what I have read here:
If they paid out an insurance settlement of lets say 2000 for a watch that is obviously worth 10000, they could quite easily sell it on the open market without the original owner ever even knowing it had been recovered.

Most insurance is new for old, the insurance company will pay the new replacement value to the insured party. Once the claim is paid if the goods are then found they will belong to the insurance company - they will then sell the goods but almost certainly recover less than the payout. The purchaser of the stolen goods is totally out of pocket unless they can get recompense from the seller of the stolen goods who in turn will be out of pocket.

[andyxxx]

Originally Posted by runner911

In the UK the following applies.

The lawful owner of property has " Title " to that property .

If a thief unlawfully appropriates such property by theft, criminal deception etc. , although he has possession of the property he does not have " Title. "

If he then sells the stolen property to a buyer , even though the buyer may pay an acceptable price , even retail price, he does not have " Title " as the thief cannot pass on what he does not have in the first place.

The property remains that of the original owner until such time as he accepts a pay out from an Insurance Company , if applicable.

" Title " to the property then passes to the Insurance Company.

I'm afraid the unsuspecting buyer of stolen property is left with nothing. He may however apply to the Court for compensation if the thief is prosecuted , but even if the Court orders compensation it is rarely paid because the thief invariably has nothing with which to pay .

Hope that is clear to everyone.

Thank you.
I have just spent a while reading numerous articles and that sums it up perfectly - I am surprised I was so ignorant of the law.

[JnmEaton]

You should see the appraisals brought in to me. Huge numbers and a quick google search shows that you could replace a watch or diamond for much less. however, if we are presented an appraisal that is what we insure the item. Of course, that's what the premium is based on also. What gets most ppl is jewelry that have owned for a while and don't have replacement cost coverage any longer b/c of appreciation/inflation. maybe your 1 ct diamond was $2000 twenty years ago but now it would take $6500. We have to go with the coverage listed. Lesson: Update your personal articles every 5 yrs +/-. especially if gold is through the roof.

[runner911]

Andy, please don't knock yourself !

The only reason I knew about it is because I spent all of my working life dealing with that sort of thing.

Law/title ? A complicated subject !

[handsfull]

Complete nonsense.

Rolex has no power to hold anyone's possessions for any reason. If you bring in a watch that comes up stolen, Rolex should call the police/report it - but confiscation is not their function/nor should it be. They have a hard time returning brand new watches to people in the same condition they were sent in....I don't want them having any part of the already broken/decrepit/sad judicial system.

[Sweetswisssteel]

Stupid to hand it over. Basically Rolex stole his watch

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[MonsterSS]

Originally Posted by handsfull

Complete nonsense.

Rolex has no power to hold anyone's possessions for any reason. If you bring in a watch that comes up stolen, Rolex should call the police/report it - but confiscation is not their function/nor should it be. They have a hard time returning brand new watches to people in the same condition they were sent in....I don't want them having any part of the already broken/decrepit/sad judicial system.

At first my thoughts were opposite from you, but now I would have to agree. Production reported to the authorities, and they are the ones that I should seize the property

[Ticknaway]

I guess this is why you should be very leary of private party purchases, it would be nice to know how this works out.

[TickTockChuck]

I always wonder how much verification Rolex requires to declare a watch "stolen". Probably another reason why people blank out their serial numbers when selling so scammers can't lay claim to your watch at a later date. Feel sorry for the chap and his only recourse is to go back to where he bought it for a refund. Probably why I stick to buying from ADs to potentially avoid such nasty surprises down the road. Buyer beware as they say. Cheers!

PS: I wouldn't hand over my watch to anyone but the local authorities and would require a receipt in case the whole thing was a mistake.

[fredfiga]

My SubC was robbed at gun point last year here in Brazil. I reported to the police and to Rolex. I was told that Rolex has a worldwide list of all stolen rolex and if any of them turns up in a RSC anywhere they keep the watch and send it back to the rightful owner.


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[GMT Aviator]

This happened to me.........

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=508327

[FTX I]

Originally Posted by chewbacca

what a mess.

+1

[TickTockChuck]

Originally Posted by GMT Aviator

This happened to me.........

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=508327

That's an amazing thread! Sorry it happened to you. Glad you got your Coke GMT back, but what a major pain. Hope you cleared up all those police reports. Cheers!

[Gaijin]

Wow. Painful.