Rolex Tiffany Archive Papers

[330ci]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

So using your 'logic' of the tens of thousands of fake Tiffany stamped dials that have been submitted for Rolex service over the last 30 years have all been either denied service or forced to buy a new dial, right? Where are those guys? Rolex would provide that information in their estimate so let's see some.:)

I think you’re grossly overestimating numbers here as well. Most people with a fake Tiffany dial know they have a fake or believe it’s fake automatically because of people like you so would probably never end up in RSCs hands unless they intended on it being swapped anyways.

Dials aren’t a dime a dozen anymore either for any reference. Where a 5513/1680 dial could’ve been bought for a few hundred bucks and stamped to add potentially thousands it made sense. Who in their right mind is going to take a $2k + dial, and stamp it in hopes they can potentially pull a slight premium at this point versus selling an clean dial to someone who needs it much easier. If you can’t sell it you’ve just lost a few thousand bucks instantly.

[Richard Carver]

Originally Posted by 330ci

Yes you are, where is your proof that Rolex will service a watch with an illegitimate Tiffany stamping?



As have you, only your posting your baseless opinions as fact. Attacking anyone with a constructive theory and likely are spreading complete misinformation according to this gentleman from Australia

So where are all the unhappy owners of fake Tiffany dials that have been refused Rolex service the last 30 years? Rolex gives a written estimate before every service, show me one refusing service for a fake Tiffany stamp. Just one.

[330ci]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

So where are all the unhappy owners of fake Tiffany dials that have been refused Rolex service the last 30 years? Rolex gives a written estimate before every service, show me one refusing service for a fake Tiffany stamp. Just one.

as i've stated before
I believe
A:you're blowing the numbers greatly out of proportion.
B:that this problem wasn't prevalent until recently, so most of the people who bought their watch 30+ years ago likely have nothing to worry about other than internet warriors like you telling them their watch is fake based on nothing but regurgitated arguments from 10 years ago.
C: that these owners would know their dials are not genuine articles therefor taking it to a non authorized servicer.
D: people who have fake parts, generally aren't too concerned about timekeeping accuracy, so possibly never get them serviced anyways.
E: again prices for parts are up, skepticism for these watches has never been higher, so what advantage does one have stamping an authentic Rolex dial with a tiffany marking at this point?

F: show me proof that Rolex has serviced a dial with a known fake stamping. You assert your opinion as fact, back it up bud. I've stated my opinion as such this whole time, backed it up with circumstantial evidence. have had forum members with information that supported my hypothesis, as well as some reasonable questions that leave me without a definite opinion; but one I have no problem asserting based on the facts at hand.



as to where all the fakes are? probably on watches with aftermarket diamonds, bracelets etc. there is a large market for aftermarket modded watches. cases of them at most of the jewelry stores I visit.

[Richard Carver]

A:you're blowing the numbers greatly out of proportion.
More supposition on your part, more statements you know nothing about. In your expert opinion how many fake Tiffany stamps exist? How many have been submitted to Rolex for service?

B:that this problem wasn't prevalent until recently, so most of the people who bought their watch 30+ years ago likely have nothing to worry about other than internet warriors like you telling them their watch is fake based on nothing but regurgitated arguments from 10 years ago.

LOL, You feel comfortable in stating what 'most people' are thinking and feeling from 30 years ago. Do you ever get embarrassed? 10 years ago I was still running The Vintage Rolex Forum and had been for 7 years at that point, thousands of hours on the forum, 40 years a collector and never once have I heard anyone say they were refused service or forced to buy a new dial because Rolex couldn't confirm if the Tiffany stamp was real.

C: that these owners would know their dials are not genuine articles therefor taking it to a non authorized servicer.

LOL, so you know what these owners know and believe, I'm getting embarrassed for you. :) Outside these forums people know very little to say they 'know' their Tiffany stamp is fake is simply untrue;

D: people who have fake parts, generally aren't too concerned about timekeeping accuracy, so possibly never get them serviced anyways.

Again, you 'know' what untold thousands of people 'know';

E: again prices for parts are up, skepticism for these watches has never been higher, so what advantage does one have stamping an authentic Rolex dial with a tiffany marking at this point?

Who said anything about new fakes? This is about submitting fakes up to 30 years old for Rolex service.You're just making stuff up now. :)

F: show me proof that Rolex has serviced a dial with a known fake stamping. You assert your opinion as fact, back it up bud. I've stated my opinion as such this whole time, backed it up with circumstantial evidence. have had forum members with information that supported my hypothesis, as well as some reasonable questions that leave me without a definite opinion; but one I have no problem asserting based on the facts at hand.

You've backed your nonsense with nothing but ill informed supposition. Like I suggested to your cohort in misinformation, call RSC and ask them if they confirm the validity of co-signed watches from former ADs. Why won't either of you take that simple step?

[joli160]

Just let it go Richard, don’t feed the trolls.
Unfortunately some day someone will believe them and pay top dollar for a fake T stamped watch. That’s the sad thing about this thread.

[GoingPlaces]

Originally Posted by joli160

Just let it go Richard, don’t feed the trolls.
Unfortunately some day someone will believe them and pay top dollar for a fake T stamped watch. That’s the sad thing about this thread.

Unfortunately this is exactly what will happen.

[fmc000]

Originally Posted by joli160

Just let it go Richard, don’t feed the trolls.

Exactly. I've completely lost interest in this thread because of that.

Inviato dal mio SM-T719 utilizzando Tapatalk

[baumare]

Ok guys please stop the argument, I'm here to solve the problem!
In the pic below is me at NYC Tiffany last floor waiting to talk to the rep for my "archive certificate"
Next step RSC at 665 5th avenue.
Wish me luck

IMG_0819.JPG

[GoingPlaces]

Originally Posted by baumare

Ok guys please stop the argument, I'm here to solve the problem!
In the pic below is me at NYC Tiffany last floor waiting to talk to the rep for my "archive certificate"
Next step RSC at 665 5th avenue.
Wish me luck

Attachment 1190846

Keep us posted.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by baumare

Ok guys please stop the argument, I'm here to solve the problem!
In the pic below is me at NYC Tiffany last floor waiting to talk to the rep for my "archive certificate"
Next step RSC at 665 5th avenue.
Wish me luck

Attachment 1190846

Good luck! Fun adventure.

[joli160]

Originally Posted by baumare

Ok guys please stop the argument, I'm here to solve the problem!
In the pic below is me at NYC Tiffany last floor waiting to talk to the rep for my "archive certificate"
Next step RSC at 665 5th avenue.
Wish me luck

Hoop Tiffany will accommodate you and the result will be positive

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by joli160

Just let it go Richard, don’t feed the trolls.

This.

#carverforpresident

[Wigwag]

Originally Posted by baumare

Ok guys please stop the argument, I'm here to solve the problem!
In the pic below is me at NYC Tiffany last floor waiting to talk to the rep for my "archive certificate"
Next step RSC at 665 5th avenue.
Wish me luck

Attachment 1190846

Can't wait for this, looking forward to some major backtracking from the experts on this thread.

There will be 2 possible outcomes:

1. Rolex provide you with a service estimate declaring that the dial has to be replaced as it is not original to the watch.

2. Rolex provide you with a service estimate with no comment on the dial, meaning the dial is genuine and they have checked the record of the supply

Please make sure you ask them how they have formed their conclusions so Richard Carver et al can catch up with the times

[Richard Carver]

Originally Posted by wigwag

can't wait for this, looking forward to some major backtracking from the experts on this thread.

There will be 2 possible outcomes:

1. Rolex provide you with a service estimate declaring that the dial has to be replaced as it is not original to the watch.

2. Rolex provide you with a service estimate with no comment on the dial, meaning the dial is genuine and they have checked the record of the supply

Please make sure you ask them how they have formed their conclusions so richard carver et al can catch up with the times

lol

[Richard Carver]

Originally Posted by baumare

Ok guys please stop the argument, I'm here to solve the problem!
In the pic below is me at NYC Tiffany last floor waiting to talk to the rep for my "archive certificate"
Next step RSC at 665 5th avenue.
Wish me luck

Attachment 1190846

Did Tiffany confirm it's one of theirs? What would that prove? Under discussion is the thousands of fake Tiffany dials Rolex happily services. :)

What will be fun is if Tiffany tells you it's fake and Rolex services as they have done for many years. They have zero interest in an ex-AD's stamp as long as it's an original Rolex dial. This is so much fun!

[TimeToGo]

Originally Posted by Wigwag

Can't wait for this, looking forward to some major backtracking from the experts on this thread.

There will be 2 possible outcomes:

1. Rolex provide you with a service estimate declaring that the dial has to be replaced as it is not original to the watch.

2. Rolex provide you with a service estimate with no comment on the dial, meaning the dial is genuine and they have checked the record of the supply

Please make sure you ask them how they have formed their conclusions so Richard Carver et al can catch up with the times

[330ci]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

Did Tiffany confirm it's one of theirs? What would that prove? Under discussion is the thousands of fake Tiffany dials Rolex happily services. :)

What will be fun is if Tiffany tells you it's fake and Rolex services as they have done for many years. They have zero interest in an ex-AD's stamp as long as it's an original Rolex dial. This is so much fun!

Thousands, yet you can’t dig up proof of one.

If the latter ends up true I’ll eat crow for dinner. But have yet to see any indicator of such.


As for the other “marked” dials. Rolex used to sell bulk award watches to companies with their logos applied to the dial. That wasn’t companies running out buying Rolexes and doing it themselves. All of these modifications were authorized by Rolex which is why they respect them. Case back engravings are as old as watchmaking itself. Personal engravings are the only acceptable modification I’ve seen Rolex allow.


As for being referred to as a troll. Blasphemous.

I’m not the one preaching to the world that Rolex will service fake goods

[Richard Carver]

Originally Posted by 330ci

Thousands, yet you can’t dig up proof of one.

If the latter ends up true I’ll eat crow for dinner. But have yet to see any indicator of such.


As for the other “marked” dials. Rolex used to sell bulk award watches to companies with their logos applied to the dial. That wasn’t companies running out buying Rolexes and doing it themselves. All of these modifications were authorized by Rolex which is why they respect them. Case back engravings are as old as watchmaking itself. Personal engravings are the only acceptable modification I’ve seen Rolex allow.


As for being referred to as a troll. Blasphemous.

I’m not the one preaching to the world that Rolex will service fake goods

LOL, again. show even one Rolex estimate from the last 30 years refusing to service a Tiffany marked dial because it's fake. Just one. :)

[330ci]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

LOL, again. show even one Rolex estimate from the last 30 years refusing to service a Tiffany marked dial because it's fake. Just one. :)

i'm not the one claiming there's thousands out there. your argument is based on one statement alone that should be easily verifiable by your estimates... nothing but rhetorical arguments from you when you could easily put this to rest.

Like i've stated multiple times throughout, i'd love to be proven wrong, but based on the information at hand, your opinion seems preposterous.


Printing a tiffany & co logo on a Rolex dial is ILLEGAL
Rolex ignoring people doing this would be them in support of an ILLEGAL practice.
what advantage do they have by servicing watches with illegitmate parts? seems like an easy way to get sued for trademark infringement by Tiffany & co.


you're the one throwing out figures, opinions as fact, and have supported none of it, whilst acting like i'm some criminal. If your opinion had half the validity you've stated, I wouldn't be here discussing this.

by your account Rolex has serviced THOUSANDS of FAKE Tiffany Dials. surely there would be some evidence of that online.

in this thread alone there is one person who's claimed they know of someone who was refused service due to a fake tiffany dial. I question his credibility far less than yours at this point. so your turn, wheres a fake tiffany dial with Rolex service receipts.


you've rested your argument on one point, and you can't even verify it.

:)

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by 330ci

As for being referred to as a troll. Blasphemous.

I agree. That was a cheap shot. Coherently and logically debating another member doesn’t make one a troll.
It’s not like you’re casually dropping political views into your comments just to stir the pot....

[Richard Carver]

Originally Posted by 330ci

i'm not the one claiming there's thousands out there. your argument is based on one statement alone that should be easily verifiable by your estimates... nothing but rhetorical arguments from you when you could easily put this to rest.

Like i've stated multiple times throughout, i'd love to be proven wrong, but based on the information at hand, your opinion seems preposterous.


Printing a tiffany & co logo on a Rolex dial is ILLEGAL
Rolex ignoring people doing this would be them in support of an ILLEGAL practice.
what advantage do they have by servicing watches with illegitmate parts? seems like an easy way to get sued for trademark infringement by Tiffany & co.


you're the one throwing out figures, opinions as fact, and have supported none of it, whilst acting like i'm some criminal. If your opinion had half the validity you've stated, I wouldn't be here discussing this.

by your account Rolex has serviced THOUSANDS of FAKE Tiffany Dials. surely there would be some evidence of that online.

in this thread alone there is one person who's claimed they know of someone who was refused service due to a fake tiffany dial. I question his credibility far less than yours at this point. so your turn, wheres a fake tiffany dial with Rolex service receipts.


you've rested your argument on one point, and you can't even verify it.

:)

LOL, I've tried to make this as easy for you as possible, provide even one Rolex estimate refusing to service a Tiffany co-brand as a fake, Just one, 30 long years, just one. :)

[GoingPlaces]

Again, does Rolex have records of EACH watch ever produced since the relationship with Tiffany's began and the specific distribution channel for that piece. If so then perhaps, but aren't we talking 40 million plus+ pieces?

[Richard Carver]

Originally Posted by GoingPlaces

Again, does Rolex have records of EACH watch ever produced since the relationship with Tiffany's began and the specific distribution channel for that piece. If so then perhaps, but aren't we talking 40 million plus+ pieces?

Rolex knows where they were sent but dealers swap inventory at will. If Rolex knew where they were sold the gray market wouldn't exist. :)

[swish77]

Originally Posted by baumare

Ok guys please stop the argument, I'm here to solve the problem!
In the pic below is me at NYC Tiffany last floor waiting to talk to the rep for my "archive certificate"
Next step RSC at 665 5th avenue.
Wish me luck

Excellent! Good luck, and keep us updated!

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

Did Tiffany confirm it's one of theirs? What would that prove? Under discussion is the thousands of fake Tiffany dials Rolex happily services. :)

If Tiffany confirms a Rolex Tiffany-branded dial as legit and provides supporting paperwork, that proves a lot. That's definitive confirmation that the dial is authentic, IMHO.

Of course it wouldn't do much for the separate debate about an RSC's approach to servicing a Tiffany-branded Rolex dial (real or fake).

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by baumare

Ok guys please stop the argument, I'm here to solve the problem!
In the pic below is me at NYC Tiffany last floor waiting to talk to the rep for my "archive certificate"
Next step RSC at 665 5th avenue.
Wish me luck

Attachment 1190846

What a beautiful watch. I hope you get what you are looking for. Good luck!
If the entire watch is genuine, one would expect the movement to be marked with ROW?

[TimeLord2]

This thread has turned out to be high drama but still quite interesting and informative. Definitely interested in an updated from Mario! And that is a lovely Sea Dweller!

[zapokee]

Most predictable ban ever.

[Rolex tom]

I have no idea how Rolex go about their business but I’d imagine they have what most brands have and that’s a online resource used by the diag teams, case Dismantlers and watchmaker alike that will have all references matched up to the correct product.
This is pure conjecture on my part but surely Rolex would be able to discern the difference between a Rolex 6239 Tiffany and a regular one. They would have needed to know how many Rolex Tiffany dial watches they were making. Without some way of telling the two apart they’d have no idea. (I don’t believe for a minute Tiffany printed there own, that just doesn’t make sense to me)

As said I have no concrete proof, just my two cents. I’d love know how this all pans out.

[TimeLord2]

@baumare had the last word on the question of whether this is a thing… The lack of a follow-up is telling. Will Tiffany & Co verify the serial number of the Rolex they sold? Only time will tell! Check back next week! same Bat time! Same Bat channel? Always thought that was a good cliff hanger. Sorry…

[330ci]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

LOL, I've tried to make this as easy for you as possible, provide even one Rolex estimate refusing to service a Tiffany co-brand as a fake, Just one, 30 long years, just one. :)

There’s nothing to make easy for me. I never made baseless claims as truth.

You on the other hand did. And your solution is to pass off the bearer of proof on someone who never claimed to have one.

So again, where is ONE out of the THOUSANDS of fakes you claim Rolex to have serviced throughout this time.

I seriously can’t believe I’m being called a troll. Talking about grey dealers like they were a problem 20+ years ago... hilarious.