Well was he wrong?

[Drpepper]

https://youtu.be/pcM3fhMiBpw



It was his watch to do as he pleased but I’m sure the AD would not be happy to see this video.

[Pim]

Originally Posted by Drpepper

https://youtu.be/pcM3fhMiBpw



It was his watch to do as he pleased but I’m sure the AD would not be happy to see this video.

Sure his watch, his choice.
Buts feels wrong, coming into a relationship and moved into the neighborhood getting a nice watch, keeping it in the safe looking where the market is going and cashing out.

But is he wrong.... no, free world

[westoque]

Originally Posted by Drpepper

https://youtu.be/pcM3fhMiBpw



It was his watch to do as he pleased but I’m sure the AD would not be happy to see this video.

My takeaway from this is that he got a 5711 in 3 months so there's got to be a formula on who gets an allocation. Would love to be able to "crack the code" :D

[guanxi]

I am sure this gentleman has lots of qualities but definitely doesn’t qualify as a passionate watch enthusiast and collector!

[-dustin]

What’s worse - the guy (who doesn’t seems like much of a flipper) selling for market value or the guy buying at 2x msrp and feeding the frenzy?

[ganiccus]

Originally Posted by guanxi

I am sure this gentleman has lots of qualities but definitely doesn’t qualify as a passionate watch enthusiast and collector!

i would disagree, he made a video showing his collection and he definitely qualifies as a serious watch enthusiast. he has inexpensive stuff like seiko and swatch, some rolex, iwc and cartier and his grail is a ALS datograph flyback in platinum.

i think he sold his 5711 for the right reasons and it's not like he was a bigshot client who had a long standing relationship with his patek AD anyway. he basically cashed out on his luck, but he better not expect getting anything else desirable from his AD in the long run though.

[guanxi]

I haven’t watched his other videos hence my comment only based from the video in this post...you may very well be right!

[Wahlberg]

If he had it for 2 years he's not a flipper. Who cares about the AD or anyone else. If he isn't comfortable wearing it anymore, no connection, needs the money (he said he isn't wealthy so I'm sure it's fun to make a 43k profit), simply wants the money/profit but doesn't need it, + 1000 other options it's his choice in the end.

Originally Posted by Pim

, keeping it in the safe

Did I miss this, but he said he wasn't scared wearing it so where does the safe comment come from?

[PPcollector]

Originally Posted by ganiccus

i would disagree, he made a video showing his collection and he definitely qualifies as a serious watch enthusiast. he has inexpensive stuff like seiko and swatch, some rolex, iwc and cartier and his grail is a ALS datograph flyback in platinum.

i think he sold his 5711 for the right reasons and it's not like he was a bigshot client who had a long standing relationship with his patek AD anyway. he basically cashed out on his luck, but he better not expect getting anything else desirable from his AD in the long run though.

If you watch his video regarding his watch collection, at the end he indicated one of the future watches he would like to purchase is the 5164 Aquanaut...

Good luck with getting that one from the AD across the street! Haha... he probably needs to move to another country to acquire it!

If he kept the 5711 and purchased the 5164 shortly afterwards then he could have easily had a chance! Now, selling the 5711 basically closed the doors for buying any future Patek sports models. Dummy!

There is a silent code of ownership with having the privilege to owning a sports Patek watch. You don’t flip the watch for at least a good 4-5 years. Ask your AD at time of purchase what they feel is the proper “time of ownership”. Most will say around 5 years give or take 1 year.

[Yzord]

His watch, his sale. He has all the rights to do it. Simple as that.

[chiscott_29]

Originally Posted by -dustin

What’s worse - the guy (who doesn’t seems like much of a flipper) selling for market value or the guy buying at 2x msrp and feeding the frenzy?

Why is either a problem? I genuinely don’t understand the vitriol towards the secondary market.

There’s an art market. An exotic car market. An antiques market. There’s nobody out maligning those markets. Now, there’s a watch market. But, if someone sells a watch for a profit to the market, or if someone buys from the gray market, there always seems to be an implied problem.

It’s his watch. Screw the AD. Screw what Patek thinks. Neither an AD or the manufacture seems to register a concern at all when someone takes a 40% hit on a grand complication.

[BigAppleBill]

My personal take might be a bit controversial for those who feel it’s a dog-eat-dog world when it comes to watch buying and selling.

But his AD did him a MAJOR favor by offering the watch to him and not another client. The watch was already valued at nearly twice retail when he bought it. He knew it was a crazy good deal or he wouldn’t have bought such an expensive watch while still (admittedly) having car loans and credit card debt. I feel it would have been a nice gesture to go back to his AD and explain that he’s starting to feel negative vibes about the watch and offer it back to his AD to sell as a used watch and split the profit with him. Then his AD relationship would remain honest and strong so maybe he could pick up the 5164 that another poster mentioned he now wants.

I’m dubious that he seems to indicate he wasn’t aware of the 5711’s secondary market value when he purchased it. Again, a person in the financial situation he describes would have NEVER shelled out nearly $30K for a watch unless he knew he could get out of it with a nice profit.

Anyway that’s my take. Flame away...

[A971]

Originally Posted by chiscott_29

I genuinely don’t understand the vitriol towards the secondary market.

I don't either! Lot of salt in this thread.

How dare he not like a watch after wearing it, and then selling it! And to profit from that!?

"He needed to offer to cut his pinky off at the AD. Then, he needs to..."

[tictic]

Pardon my ignorance - but how does a dealer become aware of his sale 2 years down the road? Is big brother hovering drones overhead?

[PPcollector]

Originally Posted by tictic

Pardon my ignorance - but how does a dealer become aware of his sale 2 years down the road? Is big brother hovering drones overhead?

When the watch gets sent in for service to Patek they will cross reference and see if the new and original owner of the watch are the same. If not then it was sold and they may reach out to the AD to ask. At least that is how Patek can find out...of course, if it was a private sale and as long as the watch was not sent in then Patek or the AD will never find out. Then again, if I spent $67k for a 5711, I would want to send it in to make sure it is running smoothly.

[Bobby T]

So many on this site, having a "holier than thou" attitude............you sound like (and possibly are) nothing more than elitist snobs. Get over it.........its just a frickin' watch that he bought and sold. Nobody cares if you don't want to sell yours but don't tell others, who look at a watch as nothing more than a commodity, what to do with it. Ridiculous!!!

[PPcollector]

Guess some of you have no idea what it takes to be an owner of a 5711 or other Patek sport watches bought from the AD and not grey. To be able to purchase at the AD takes a long term commitment and trust that the owner will not flip the watch after purchase. It is that relationship which all Patek owners appreciate. To those that don’t get it and think it is just a commodity piece...well, good luck with your pursuit for any Patek sports watches...

“Owning a 5711 is a privilege, not a right!”

[dchang81]

Funny that didn't used to be the case just a few years ago. Had to wait a few months but didn't necessarily to have a prior relationship. To me, it was like trying to get a 116610 black submariner these days. I have to admit being tempted selling mine many times. But you know the markets crazy when the overseas is trading at MSRP.

[Calatrava r]

I have a hard time believing he got 68K for the watch as a private seller. 68K is really top of the market, the watch could be had in the mid to low 60s from a dealer and a private seller most likely would fetch less, given the lack of recourse for the buyer if something turns out to be a problem.

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by PPcollector

Guess some of you have no idea what it takes to be an owner of a 5711 or other Patek sport watches bought from the AD and not grey. To be able to purchase at the AD takes a long term commitment and trust that the owner will not flip the watch after purchase. It is that relationship which all Patek owners appreciate. To those that don’t get it and think it is just a commodity piece...well, good luck with your pursuit for any Patek sports watches...

“Owning a 5711 is a privilege, not a right!”

In 2013/2014, 5711s were sitting in the cases unsold and could be had at a discount. The internet and contrived shortages and here we are. 43K profit. Anyone who doesn't weigh the profit aspect in a market that could collapse at any time if the current fad with SS watches fades, should. Remember this watch has push pins in the bracelet.

[ganiccus]

Originally Posted by tictic

Pardon my ignorance - but how does a dealer become aware of his sale 2 years down the road? Is big brother hovering drones overhead?

i don't know, maybe making a video on youtube about it for all the world to see?? if he really want to buy an aquanaut travel time in the future, he better be ready to pay the premium on the secondary market because his AD sure as hell not gonna come through for him a second time.

[PPcollector]

Yeah...he’ll end up using his profit from the 5711 to purchase the 5164 from grey.

[chiscott_29]

Again, I don't think this needs to turn confrontational. We all have our opinions.

I support the gray market and I personally think it is the most stable part of the industry and the part that is least likely to be disrupted. I also find it the most honest part of the watch world. I'm sure there are bad seeds and there are characters that are acting in a shady manner, but I'd rather work with one of my trusted dealers than an AD any day of the week. ADs/Boutiques are the people playing the games.

What I find comical is all the "purists" that speak negatively of the secondary market, and feel that if you can't get it from an AD that you don't deserve a watch, you're what's wrong with the watch world, etc. It's funny...These are the people that sit back and brag about getting hot watches at retail and 90% of them are playing the exact same game using these watches to buy/sell/trade into others. How the heck do you think dealers get their stock? How do you think you even have the market to do this?

Anyway, I have no vitriol towards anybody. To each their own. It's just flat out comical though to hear about the double-standards.

[Token74]

Not sure why all the fuss. He is entitled to sell his watch, it is his watch. Patek are entitled to blacklist him if they want to, it is their business. The AD is entitled to not sell to him again if that’s what they choose to do, it is their stock.

Everyone is entitled to make choices. Choices often have consequences.

Surely no drama or controversy!


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[Token74]

Originally Posted by chiscott_29

Again, I don't think this needs to turn confrontational. We all have our opinions.

I support the gray market and I personally think it is the most stable part of the industry and the part that is least likely to be disrupted. I also find it the most honest part of the watch world. I'm sure there are bad seeds and there are characters that are acting in a shady manner, but I'd rather work with one of my trusted dealers than an AD any day of the week. ADs/Boutiques are the people playing the games.

What I find comical is all the "purists" that speak negatively of the secondary market, and feel that if you can't get it from an AD that you don't deserve a watch, you're what's wrong with the watch world, etc. It's funny...These are the people that sit back and brag about getting hot watches at retail and 90% of them are playing the exact same game using these watches to buy/sell/trade into others. How the heck do you think dealers get their stock? How do you think you even have the market to do this?

Anyway, I have no vitriol towards anybody. To each their own. It's just flat out comical though to hear about the double-standards.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[chiscott_29]

Originally Posted by Token74

Not sure why all the fuss. He is entitled to sell his watch, it is his watch. Patek are entitled to blacklist him if they want to, it is their business. The AD is entitled to not sell to him again if that’s what they choose to do, it is their stock.

Everyone is entitled to make choices. Choices often have consequences.

Surely no drama or controversy!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

100%! Maybe he'll be blacklisted. Maybe he won't. However, if I own a business I'd think twice before I blacklisted anyone whether I was selling PP watches or Croc shoes. It will always cost me more to acquire a new customer than it will to keep the ones I have in good stead.

[Token74]

Originally Posted by chiscott_29

100%! Maybe he'll be blacklisted. Maybe he won't. However, if I own a business I'd think twice before I blacklisted anyone whether I was selling PP watches or Croc shoes. It will always cost me more to acquire a new customer than it will to keep the ones I have in good stead.

I’ve blacklisted clients, I will only work with/for people I want to work with. Sure, it costs me money at times and there have been slight regrets, but, I will continue to do it as I see fit.

That said, I’m not saying Patek or the AD should blacklist the fella, I’m just suggesting that they are entitled to do so, in the same way that he is entitled to sell his property.


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[PPcollector]

To each their own opinions. If you want to flip then go right ahead, just remember flippers are the ones making it harder for first time collectors to purchase any from the ADs. You do realize if the AD is selling these to flippers, they themselves are cut off from Patek if there is sufficient evidence. Patek frowns upon this practice which is why they will sometimes buy from the greys to find out where their watches end up.
Again, can’t emphasize enough that owning a Patek is about relationships.

[Patton250]

I still can’t believe anyone would pay $29,000 for that watch never mind $68,000. Holy cow.

I like the video. He did it the right way in my opinion.

[Bearxj86]

Be aware he clearly mentioned he got it more than 2 years ago. It’s not considered a flip after that long