Patek price increase and store closures

[Apheaven]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

150 seems high to me. I would have thought 5 or 6 per month.

They would like you to think they get 2-3 per month…it’s laughable some of the conversations I have.


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[dom007]

https://swisswatches-magazine.com/bl...kim-eva-wempe/

[ts3]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

150 seems high to me. I would have thought 5 or 6 per month.

150 is about right for the hypothetical average AD based on 60000 watches and 400 ADs. Probably a little higher even as the number of watches may be more like 70000 and the number of ADs might have dropped below 400 by now.

[sigma089]

Great post @Dom.

Loved this from TS: "Fortunately, we have a long-term vision, whereas other brands don’t care at the moment. But I think that is dangerous."

Imo a clear reference to AP. Honestly, despite the fact that they culled my AD you got to give it to PP: They know what they are doing.

Wonder who or if they are prioritising between Wempe and Bucherer. In my hometown of Munich here in Germany both still have PP. Bucherer operates a store that has been selling PP and Rolex exclusively for years. Wempe on the other hand opened an enormous store on one of the most exclusive streets a few years ago in addition to another store that they have operated for decades. Bucherer did the same, but I don't think they are selling PP there.

From what TS is stating in this interview and given the proximity the stores are in, I'm really curious if they are going to pull out from one of them. Going to be a tough call, because both the old Wempe and Bucherer Rolex/PP store could become PP exclusive boutiques like the Wempe boutique in Hamburg. Maybe they'll even prioritize on a city by city basis. So Wempe gets Hamburg and Frankfurt maybe. Bucherer Berlin and Munich. Rüschenbeck (which is another large retailer that operates several brand boutiques incl. AP in Frankfurt) gets the Western part of Germany.

They then probably would leave the smaller retailers in smaller cities to fight it out between themselves, leaving PP with the companies that are most willing to remodel as per PP's standards on a constant basis.

Any thoughts?

[HMHM]

Originally Posted by sigma089

Great post @Dom.

Loved this from TS: "Fortunately, we have a long-term vision, whereas other brands don’t care at the moment. But I think that is dangerous."

Imo a clear reference to AP. Honestly, despite the fact that they culled my AD you got to give it to PP: They know what they are doing.

Wonder who they are prioritising between Wempe and Bucherer. In my hometown both still have PP. Bucherer operates a store that has been selling PP and Rolex exclusively for years. Wempe opened an enormous store on one of the most exclusive streets a few years ago. From what TS is stating in this interview and given the proximity the stores are in, really curious if they are going to pull out from one of them.

Any thoughts?

I think both brands (AP and PP) have valid reasons to go with their current plan (AD vs Boutique). And as it has been debated multiple times here on TRF, both have their own pros and cons. Long term no one’s know which route is better, but suspect that in an economic downturn, having to maintain the place, staff and utilities, combined with difficulty moving watches in a bad economic environment, may be less effective than the AD route where the AD takes the retail risk. So over the next 12 months, with the woes faced by the banking industry, we will likely know the outcome.

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by HMHM

I think both brands (AP and PP) have valid reasons to go with their current plan (AD vs Boutique). And as it has been debated multiple times here on TRF, both have their own pros and cons. Long term no one’s know which route is better, but suspect that in an economic downturn, having to maintain the place, staff and utilities, combined with difficulty moving watches in a bad economic environment, may be less effective than the AD route where the AD takes the retail risk. So over the next 12 months, with the woes faced by the banking industry, we will likely know the outcome.

Agreed, and I'll add that during downturns, ADs often have less expensive brands to bring the cash they need to maintain the business (wages, premises charges...). In a mono brand shop with a high starting price, it might be less easy. I guess that Patek have gathered some data with their Salons prior to 2012/2014, even if those salons are based in wealthier areas.
I believe they have a much larger view on this than we have and can think of. Hence their decision making may be quite very different from ours.

[Ubiquitous1984]

Originally Posted by dom007

https://swisswatches-magazine.com/bl...kim-eva-wempe/

That was a superb interview, thanks for sharing.

Also the new boutique looks wonderful. The bar is being raised for PP retailers to follow.

[ts3]

Originally Posted by sigma089

Great post @Dom.

Loved this from TS: "Fortunately, we have a long-term vision, whereas other brands don’t care at the moment. But I think that is dangerous."

Imo a clear reference to AP. Honestly, despite the fact that they culled my AD you got to give it to PP: They know what they are doing.

Wonder who or if they are prioritising between Wempe and Bucherer. In my hometown of Munich here in Germany both still have PP. Bucherer operates a store that has been selling PP and Rolex exclusively for years. Wempe on the other hand opened an enormous store on one of the most exclusive streets a few years ago in addition to another store that they have operated for decades. Bucherer did the same, but I don't think they are selling PP there.

From what TS is stating in this interview and given the proximity the stores are in, I'm really curious if they are going to pull out from one of them. Going to be a tough call, because both the old Wempe and Bucherer Rolex/PP store could become PP exclusive boutiques like the Wempe boutique in Hamburg. Maybe they'll even prioritize on a city by city basis. So Wempe gets Hamburg and Frankfurt maybe. Bucherer Berlin and Munich. Rüschenbeck (which is another large retailer that operates several brand boutiques incl. AP in Frankfurt) gets the Western part of Germany.

They then probably would leave the smaller retailers in smaller cities to fight it out between themselves, leaving PP with the companies that are most willing to remodel as per PP's standards on a constant basis.

Any thoughts?

I'd be surprised if the old Wempe got converted into a Patek boutique. That location is soso IMO. Lots of foot traffic but a very different crowd from Maximilianstr or Perusastr. Feels a little like Wempe in Nürnberg who lost Patek a few years ago.

The multibrand Bucherer would make a better Patek boutique I think. However, unless a huge flashy showroom becomes mandatory, the old Huber store might continue to do from Bucherer's perspective. That said, I haven't been there in many years.

More generally, even with F.C. Bauer now out 9 of 29 German ADs remain in Bavaria. In the long run there may well be a lot less, say 1 or 2 in Munich, 1 in Nürnberg/Fürth, and 2-3 across the state.

[ATO]

Originally Posted by dom007

https://swisswatches-magazine.com/bl...kim-eva-wempe/

Great interview, always enjoy TS's messages, no BS, straight forward and professional. Also a great view as they talk about their children vs what's good for the company.

[sigma089]

Originally Posted by ts3

I'd be surprised if the old Wempe got converted into a Patek boutique. That location is soso IMO. Lots of foot traffic but a very different crowd from Maximilianstr or Perusastr. Feels a little like Wempe in Nürnberg who lost Patek a few years ago.

The multibrand Bucherer would make a better Patek boutique I think. However, unless a huge flashy showroom becomes mandatory, the old Huber store might continue to do from Bucherer's perspective. That said, I haven't been there in many years.

More generally, even with F.C. Bauer now out 9 of 29 German ADs remain in Bavaria. In the long run there may well be a lot less, say 1 or 2 in Munich, 1 in Nürnberg/Fürth, and 2-3 across the state.

Yup, good points. I'm really just trying to figure out who I'll try to go with from now on. Guess it's a coin toss at this point. I like the old Huber store the most, so I'll try my luck there.

Honestly the only thing I am really lusting over atm from PP are a 5212a and a 5320g, though I have doubts about both due to their size. Fingers crossed that PP will introduce a smaller PC. Something akin to the 3448/3449 in WG would be awesome, but I'm not holding my breath there.

[southlight]

Hi guys, long time reader but this is my first post: afaik Wempe will lose Patek in one of the Munich locations sooner or later while the other one will stay (for the time being). Bucherer does not have Patek in Germany with the takeover of the old Huber franchise being the only exception.

[sigma089]

Originally Posted by southlight

Hi guys, long time reader but this is my first post: afaik Wempe will lose Patek in one of the Munich locations sooner or later while the other one will stay (for the time being). Bucherer does not have Patek in Germany with the takeover of the old Huber franchise being the only exception.

Interesting, thanks. Just checked out the list of Patek retailers in Germany and you are right. Bucherer seems to only have PP left in Munich and Berlin while Wempe has PP in seven cities with locations in both Munich and Berlin as well. Doesn't look too great for Bucherer tbh, especially given the apparent personal connection TS has with Wempe.

[Rickkk]

Originally Posted by sigma089

Yup, good points. I'm really just trying to figure out who I'll try to go with from now on. Guess it's a coin toss at this point. I like the old Huber store the most, so I'll try my luck there.

Honestly the only thing I am really lusting over atm from PP are a 5212a and a 5320g, though I have doubts about both due to their size. Fingers crossed that PP will introduce a smaller PC. Something akin to the 3448/3449 in WG would be awesome, but I'm not holding my breath there.

5212a is available below list on the grey market now

[ButtButt]

Originally Posted by Rickkk

5212a is available below list on the grey market now

I believe 5320 is as well.

[Bearxj86]

If you don't lose your AD to the culling, you may lose your SA, you may get jumped by whales on the list, you may get blacklisted.

Perhaps if you are under the age of 60, you should fly to a Salon and start fresh ;/

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by Bearxj86

If you don't lose your AD to the culling, you may lose your SA, you may get jumped by whales on the list, you may get blacklisted.

Perhaps if you are under the age of 60, you should fly to a Salon and start fresh ;/

The only problem can be that the Salons only serve “locals” now so you may need to move to another country.

[sigma089]

Originally Posted by ButtButt

I believe 5320 is as well.

Yup, you're right. Probably the easier route.

[Will_NL]

Originally Posted by Rickkk

5212a is available below list on the grey market now

Lowest price i see on C24 is 40K US, if that is without sales tax, that is still above retail as far as I see

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by ts3

150 is about right for the hypothetical average AD based on 60000 watches and 400 ADs. Probably a little higher even as the number of watches may be more like 70000 and the number of ADs might have dropped below 400 by now.

Thanks, good to know.

[Duey]

I just got a text from my SA with Tourneau/Bucherer and was informed that they will no longer be selling Patek. She said PP was going to Boutique only

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by ButtButt

I believe 5320 is as well.

5320 has been below retail used except when it was first released. They went as low as the high 50's complete. Dress watches are soft in the current market, with a little strengthening now being seen now as demand seems to be very strong at the moment.

[LJubel328]

Originally Posted by Duey

I just got a text from my SA with Tourneau/Bucherer and was informed that they will no longer be selling Patek. She said PP was going to Boutique only

I haven’t seen news or heard whispers of this, but I 100% approve of this


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[dauster]

Originally Posted by Duey

I just got a text from my SA with Tourneau/Bucherer and was informed that they will no longer be selling Patek. She said PP was going to Boutique only

Boutique only but AD owned - seems in line of what we all heard and confirmed over the last couple of months


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[Duey]

Originally Posted by dauster

Boutique only but AD owned - seems in line of what we all heard and confirmed over the last couple of months


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She made it sound like it was Boutique Only and PP owned. She acted like this was a big decision for the direction of PP.

Sucks because I was waiting for my 5326G to come in ......

[dauster]

Originally Posted by Duey

She made it sound like it was Boutique Only and PP owned. She acted like this was a big decision for the direction of PP.

Sucks because I was waiting for my 5326G to come in ......

That’s wrong - TS just literally said the opposite in an interview with the Wempe CEO and also PP is building new boutiques together with ADs left and right for example SF, Hamburg or Berlin


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[LSU-MOOSE]

I heard from a friend that my AD lost PP. I texted my SA and he confirmed that they were dropped.

This sucks.

[codecow]

Originally Posted by LSU-MOOSE

I heard from a friend that my AD lost PP. I texted my SA and he confirmed that they were dropped.

This sucks.

It’s like stepping on a piece of broken glass.

[RKunz]

TS put on the LBs.

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by LSU-MOOSE

I heard from a friend that my AD lost PP. I texted my SA and he confirmed that they were dropped.

This sucks.

That is seriously rough.

What do we do in these situations? I mean, the years and years of building relationships...

[bob101]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

That is seriously rough.

What do we do in these situations? I mean, the years and years of building relationships...

Same happened to me with Lange and Sincere. Relationship lost once they went boutique only. Last time I went in their boutique they told me had to bundle a few watches
to be considered for a chronograph. You’d think they could track the watches you’ve bought via AD previously but no.
I just gave up with Lange at that point, put me off the brand completely.