Patek philippe vs Breguet finishing

[Abre]

Hello fellow members
So i have a 3 patek philippe 1 nautilus and 2 aquanauts, and i just purchased this Breguet around a week ago and it's my first Breguet ever and my mind is blown away from the quality, the Breguet cost around$8k usd used and this particular model has a closed case back so i couldn't compare movement finishing but when i checked the dial under the loupe the finishing was as good as patek and maybe better ( you can see how the hour markers turn black with different lighting due to black polishing technique) and i really didn't expect that, know i don't know about the level of movement finishing on the Breguet but i suspect it's very high.
What do you guys think?
All comments are appreciated.
Thank you.

[azizu]

I never had a Breguet, but did had a few Blancpain pieces (the other swatch group high horology manufacture).
Blancpain, Breguet and even Jaquet Droz have very good finishing, good designs, amazing movements and complications.
but unfortunately the market doesn't recognize that. They are very hard watches to liquidate if you had to.

[Lakeman]

Would go for the PP

[mjm700]

It's nice to see this post. I completely agree. I have the same Breguet 3817, which i purchased several years ago from the AD at a good discount. I also have several PPs, Rolex, among others, and I always take note each time I set and wind the Breguet. There is something about the movement - precise connection, smooth and firm turns, and the sound and feel when you wind it that somehow set it apart. I also agree the finish is excellent. Definitely seems very close to my PPs.

I'm sure others will dissent, but I found the biggest difference when compared to JLC, which was surprising after all I had heard and read. I eventually sold my Master Geographic unimpressed (although my wife likes her JLC).

[ansharma]

I have 2 Pateks and 1 Breguet. The finishing of the Pateks movements are certainly better as they are more refined/tighter decorations but we are talking a different price point new/pre owned.

Everything else such as case and dial finishing is at least on par. I wear my Breguet the most from my collection which contains Pateks, Lange, AP etc. I value Breguet very highly as an all around great timepiece and don’t mind it is in the shadows a little bit. I picked up my marine for £6.6k pre owned which is ridiculous value in the world of haute horology.









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[ap1]

Originally Posted by Lakeman

Would go for the PP

Plus one

[mjm700]

Originally Posted by ap1

Plus one

Dont disagree but I think the point is that the quality of breguet is surprisingly good if you are not familiar with it, particularly for the price of certain pieces.


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[Abre]

Great response, thank you all guys I really like this piece and i think Breguet is very undervalued but I think this will change soon.


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[jamerson80]

I own 4 PPs and 5 Breguets, including the 7097 5547, which at their price point have as closest competitors (which I own) the 5168G and 5205G. I think my Breguets are finished better than both those Pateks. My Breguet 3817 display back is probably just as good as my PP 5168G.

I also stopped taking pictures of my PP dials after I took this dial shot of the 5205.

Resale value retention (inflation?) and social media hype are a different matter, however...

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[Abre]

Originally Posted by jamerson80

I own 4 PPs and 5 Breguets, including the 7097 5547, which at their price point have as closest competitors (which I own) the 5168G and 5205G. I think my Breguets are finished better than both those Pateks. My Breguet 3817 display back is probably just as good as my PP 5168G.

I also stopped taking pictures of my PP dials after I took this dial shot of the 5205.

Resale value retention (inflation?) and social media hype are a different matter, however...

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i think breguet is the best hidden secret in the watch industry and i like that .


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[mjm700]

Originally Posted by Abre

i think breguet is the best hidden secret in the watch industry and i like that .


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By that you mean a watch case that includes watches?


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[de66]

Originally Posted by ansharma

I have 2 Pateks and 1 Breguet. The finishing of the Pateks movements are certainly better as they are more refined/tighter decorations but we are talking a different price point new/pre owned.

Everything else such as case and dial finishing is at least on par. I wear my Breguet the most from my collection which contains Pateks, Lange, AP etc. I value Breguet very highly as an all around great timepiece and don’t mind it is in the shadows a little bit. I picked up my marine for £6.6k pre owned which is ridiculous value in the world of haute horology.









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I would like to chime in.
I own the same model but with silver dial.

Breguet prides it self on its “Guilloche a Main” dials - hand turned dials. With Breguet the watch maker has to push the engraving pin by hand, using his own force. Other companies use mechanisms that are spring loaded so that the depth of the guilloche is always uniform. Thats where the art of Breguet lies.
Breguet dials are always made of 18k gold, then silver plated, then laquered. The reason for that is that the softer gold doesnt flake while engraving the dial patterns and Breguet maintains that with harder materials, each little flake breaking off will potentially cause a slight change in force on the engraving pin, potentially causing an imperfection on the dial.
The dial of the marine features several different types of finsihing. To my knowledge Breguet makes their own dials in house, not like Patek who owns Cadrans Fluckiger to supply many of their dials.

In all fairness it is hard to compare different techniques. Of course, looking at retail price I would say this:
The Marine pictured here, at the time, was comparable in price to the aquanaut. With the additional level of dial finishing on the Marine, the Marine was the better deal. In terms of residual value the aquanaut wins hands down of course. Personally I did not see a huge difference in finishing of the aquanaut vs the marine movements.

At current pre owned values you can pick up the Marine for the price of a sub but with the extremely top end finishing of a true Haute Horlogerie brand.

[ansharma]

Originally Posted by de66

I would like to chime in.
I own the same model but with silver dial.

Breguet prides it self on its “Guilloche a Main” dials - hand turned dials. With Breguet the watch maker has to push the engraving pin by hand, using his own force. Other companies use mechanisms that are spring loaded so that the depth of the guilloche is always uniform. Thats where the art of Breguet lies.
Breguet dials are always made of 18k gold, then silver plated, then laquered. The reason for that is that the softer gold doesnt flake while engraving the dial patterns and Breguet maintains that with harder materials, each little flake breaking off will potentially cause a slight change in force on the engraving pin, potentially causing an imperfection on the dial.
The dial of the marine features several different types of finsihing. To my knowledge Breguet makes their own dials in house, not like Patek who owns Cadrans Fluckiger to supply many of their dials.

In all fairness it is hard to compare different techniques. Of course, looking at retail price I would say this:
The Marine pictured here, at the time, was comparable in price to the aquanaut. With the additional level of dial finishing on the Marine, the Marine was the better deal. In terms of residual value the aquanaut wins hands down of course. Personally I did not see a huge difference in finishing of the aquanaut vs the marine movements.

At current pre owned values you can pick up the Marine for the price of a sub but with the extremely top end finishing of a true Haute Horlogerie brand.

Thank you for chiming in. Completely agree with this and I actually sold my 5167 and bought this as a replacement which I prefer undoubtedly and a fraction of the cost that I sold the Aquanaut.

One of the issues I had with the Aquanaut was not being able to adjust the strap size on the go, you would need to purchase another strap! Also I think the date is nicely done on the Breguet and is not great on the 5167.


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[Ichiran]

I like this hand-guilloché dial from the Breguet Marine 5517 Collection. This one is full white gold.

5517BB_Y2_BZ0.jpg

[de66]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

I like this hand-guilloché dial from the Breguet Marine 5517 Collection. This one is full white gold.

Attachment 1225769

Personally I am not taken in by the wave pattern and the indexes. Although the indexes are undoubtedly more legible in low light conditions I am not a fan of the “out of focus” effect they seem to create. I also think the lugs on the previous version were a typical Breguet characteristic.
On bracelet the new design is ok but with a strap the new design looks less well integrated. On a dive/sports watch rubber is fantastic and Breguet did a masterstroke designing their rubber straps for the marine with the characteristic Breguet hobnail design. The current rubber strap feels more flexible but also less sturdy then its predecessor and in my opinion looks rather generic. The current version I would choose bracelet, the previous rubber.
I think the Marine Big date is a Breguet masterpiece, incorporating perhaps more Breguet design than any other Breguet model. A lot of that has been reduced in the current marine models and we are missing the big date complication, but in exchange we now have an option in titanium.

[jamerson80]

Originally Posted by de66

Personally I am not taken in by the wave pattern and the indexes. Although the indexes are undoubtedly more legible in low light conditions I am not a fan of the “out of focus” effect they seem to create. I also think the lugs on the previous version were a typical Breguet characteristic.
On bracelet the new design is ok but with a strap the new design looks less well integrated. On a dive/sports watch rubber is fantastic and Breguet did a masterstroke designing their rubber straps for the marine with the characteristic Breguet hobnail design. The current rubber strap feels more flexible but also less sturdy then its predecessor and in my opinion looks rather generic. The current version I would choose bracelet, the previous rubber.
I think the Marine Big date is a Breguet masterpiece, incorporating perhaps more Breguet design than any other Breguet model. A lot of that has been reduced in the current marine models and we are missing the big date complication, but in exchange we now have an option in titanium.

To be fair, the way light (particularly sunlight) plays off the new Marine guilloche is mesmerizing. I have the 5817 and 5837, as well as the new Alarm, and while different, all are fun to wear.

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[autojewels]

The Breguet is a very beautiful timepiece but would still go for the PP which I believe has a better Movement.

[hlash99]

Originally Posted by jamerson80

To be fair, the way light (particularly sunlight) plays off the new Marine guilloche is mesmerizing. I have the 5817 and 5837, as well as the new Alarm, and while different, all are fun to wear.

Agree with this post...I tried on the 5547 (and loved it). the wave guilloche is really done well...

[joa]

great pictures in this thread

those Breguets and Pataks look very neat - i think they complement each other nicely in a collection

[nicky77]

I have not had the opportunity to compare the Breguet finishing with Patek’s however from what I have read, watched (Tim Mosso) the type XX, XXI, XXII’s are not finished as highly as the rest of their line.

[vitalsigns]

As others have said, Breguet excels at case, dial (especially guilloche) and hands finishing. Breguet will compare very well to PP along these elements.

Breguet's movements are nice, but PP will generally outpace Breguet in movement finishing and design (save for the Breguet Tradition line, which is different enough to be a category of its own).

As far as price, Breguet is by far a better value when thinking only of horological content (i.e., not market worship, fanboi, look-at-me-ism) at low to medium price points. And Breguets can be had a much lower prices for similar PP pieces, so value retention doesn't necessarily favor PP (depending on the piece, of course).

Lest you think I'm a biased Breguet drum-beater, I own two PPs and no Breguets.

[Roccio]

While Patek is in another league in terms of movement finishing, Breguet pieces are undeniably well executed for the price, especially their industry leading grand feu enamel dials which are simply sublime.

[SBC1986]

Originally Posted by ansharma

I have 2 Pateks and 1 Breguet. The finishing of the Pateks movements are certainly better as they are more refined/tighter decorations but we are talking a different price point new/pre owned.

Everything else such as case and dial finishing is at least on par. I wear my Breguet the most from my collection which contains Pateks, Lange, AP etc. I value Breguet very highly as an all around great timepiece and don’t mind it is in the shadows a little bit. I picked up my marine for £6.6k pre owned which is ridiculous value in the world of haute horology.









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Love the gondolo!

[Incroyable12]

Breguets seem similar to Vacheron in terms of value retention and second hand pricing.

They're hard to liquidate unless you sell them at a ridiculous price.

[topcat30093]

Originally Posted by Lakeman

Would go for the PP

I don’t understand your comment.
The OP wasn’t asking for help in choosing which watch.

Perhaps you would like to expand on your reply, by saying why you would go with Patek Philippe?

Have you had experience of owning a Breguet timepiece?


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[Ichiran]

From entry to mid levels, the finishing between the 2 manufacturers are not materially different. However, at the highest level, you can decide who finishes their movements better based on the pics of both movements below.

Patek:
5316P_001_1@2x.jpg

Breguet:
Screenshot_20220705-113805_Samsung Internet.jpg

The-1997-on-this-Breguet-Classique-Tourbillon-Extra-Plat-Squelette-5395-represents-part-of-the-s.jpg

[Jonadab]

Bezüglich Finish, Breguet angliert bei der Tradition Linie sogar die Zahnräder vom Zug.

[Jonadab]

Breguet angliert bei der Tradition Line auch die Zahnräder vom Zug

[MILGAUSS88]

Originally Posted by Jonadab

Bezüglich Finish, Breguet angliert bei der Tradition Linie sogar die Zahnräder vom Zug.

TRANSLATION
As for the finish, Breguet even angles the gears of the train on the Tradition line

[Xerxes77]

Breguet it’s in the same league of craftsmanship.
Unfortunately the marketing department have suffered the multi brand syndrome where only profit are important and because of Breguet are a very poor resale value