Where is the IWC Genta Ingenieur?

[deuxani]

Some of the most sought after watches today are either Rolexes, Audemars Piquet Royal Oaks and Patek Philippe Nautiluses. The Royal Oak and Nautilus are obviously the creation of the genius watch designer Gerald Genta and his integrated bracelet design watches have inspired many brands in the 70’s and 80’s to also follow the trend.

In this crazy market the Royal Oak and Nautilus are out of reach for most watch enthousiast, so they start shopping elsewhere. Overseas, Octo Finissimo, Laureato, Polo, Alpine Eagle, etc are all integrated bracelet watches that get a lot of attention these days, but they are not designed by Genta! And who does have an original Genta designed integrated bracelet watch from the 70’s? IWC!




So IWC has the Ingenieur, which back then wasn’t a success. But looking at the current market, it could become a game changer for them. The original design might be a bit too round:






And the latest iteration might be a bit too square and too different from the original:






But the 80’s slight redesign would be a nice mix of the original and the modern interpretation.




I would be first in line to get a reissue of the IWC Ingenieur based on Gerald Gentas original design. But what did IWC do? They canceled the Genta design and went back to a very unattractive pre-Genta Intengieur nobody is interested in.

If you look at IWC, they have the Big Pilot and there entire Pilot line up as their main seller. Then the Portugieser line which is quite good looking and pretty well loved. If they would add on top of that the Genta Ingenieur and can create another great line of that like AP and PP did with the Royal Oak and Nautilus, IWC would be selling many more watches over all entire line. The brand would become much more popular and they would sell probably a lot more watches.

But what is IWC doing with this hidden gem? Nothing! It’s so baffling. Maybe they are working on it as we speak (which I hope) as we can see some hints of the original Ingenieur in the new bracelet design for the Portugieser. But IWC…… WHERE IS THE GENTA INGENIEUR?

[alllexandru]

If IWC decides to revive this one with in-house caliber im all in, just not in 43 mm cases I hope :D

[WatchEater666]

I had the 3239 for a bit and loved it. Definitely underrated.

[deuxani]

Originally Posted by alllexandru

If IWC decides to revive this one with in-house caliber im all in, just not in 43 mm cases I hope :D

The purest of the final version that is discontinued, the IW3239, was 40mm. Looking at IWC’s current downsizing strategy (small Big Pilot, 39mm Spitfire, smaller Pilot Chrono, smaller Portugiesers) I am not worried about the size.

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

I had the 3239 for a bit and loved it. Definitely underrated.

That was a really nice piece. I was very close to buying it, but I just thought the dial was a bit too boring. But I loved the bracelet and the case and the size. Even if they just released that version again without the crown guards and a different dial……

[Sandpit]

Originally Posted by alllexandru

If IWC decides to revive this one with in-house caliber im all in, just not in 43 mm cases I hope :D

Such a watch would be a reason I would buy IWC. As it stands though nothing really does anything for me

[dannyp]

Agree - revive the Genta version, in the Genta size, with the new(er) manufacture calibre.

However, back to the original premise of the OP: Another one I'd love to see return is the Genta-style Omega Constellation. The tonneau case shape has had some renewed popularity (Hamilton, Cartier, CWC, Timex). With the equally reinvigorated interest in smaller watches, I could see it becoming a big hit.

[Justindo]

While I'm not a fan of Genta designed watches, I agree that Richemont is stupid for not riding this Genta wave with the Ingenieur. A return to the original design with an in house movement would print money for them and I really don't know what they were thinking when they introduced the current generation in 2017.

[thekman]

I have been wondering about this for a while. Everyone and their mom are releasing sports models with integrated bracelets to cash in on the Genta Hype, meanwhile the one company that actually has a genuine Genta designed watch refuses to cash in. It definitely feels like they are leaving millions in revenue on the table by not riding this hype train. I most definitely would buy an IWC Ingineur if it were faithful to the Gneta design (not whatever they have been producing in the last few years)

[illiguy]

https://www.iwc.com/en/forum/collect...ngenieurs.html

[deuxani]

Originally Posted by Justindo

While I'm not a fan of Genta designed watches, I agree that Richemont is stupid for not riding this Genta wave with the Ingenieur. A return to the original design with an in house movement would print money for them and I really don't know what they were thinking when they introduced the current generation in 2017.

Originally Posted by thekman

I have been wondering about this for a while. Everyone and their mom are releasing sports models with integrated bracelets to cash in on the Genta Hype, meanwhile the one company that actually has a genuine Genta designed watch refuses to cash in. It definitely feels like they are leaving millions in revenue on the table by not riding this hype train. I most definitely would buy an IWC Ingineur if it were faithful to the Gneta design (not whatever they have been producing in the last few years)

This is exactly what I’m thinking. They are leaving soooo much money on the table here, it’s unbelievable. And it could be such a huge brand booster so they would sell a lot of more other models too.
What I feel is that they are probably working on it and they want to do it right instead of hastily creating one to satisfy the market. Let’s hope so :) Maybe Watches & Wonders 2022…

[bondtoys]

IWC made an amazing Ingenieur with an inhouse movement not so long time ago, unfortunately, it was not well reveived

[mongrelnomoad]

It's just not a very interesting design. Never has been.

Too simple to fascinate, but also too simple to embellish without looking ridiculous.

[ts3]

Originally Posted by mongrelnomoad

It's just not a very interesting design. Never has been.

Too simple to fascinate, but also too simple to embellish without looking ridiculous.

Have to agree.

The 1832 also feels very different from Genta's more famous 5402 and 3700. Unlike those the 1832 is around 14mm thick, the bracelet is quite stiff, and the first links don't bend down much. It did not work well on my 6.6 inch wrists.

Accidentally, a buddy wore a 1990s 3521 Ingenieur last weekend which is a lovely 34 x 9mm watch similar to the 500000 A/m variant in the pics above.

[deuxani]

I would love something like this:



If they don’t make it, I will make it myself

[deuxani]

[1William]

I like the IWC and had one a few years ago.

[Nav01L]

I‘m told by someone who should know that it’s actually coming back

[deuxani]

Originally Posted by Nav01L

I‘m told by someone who should know that it’s actually coming back

I truly hope so! In the current line up there are dozens of Pilots and Portugiesers, but only 7 Ingenieurs (with a design nobody really wants). So fingers crossed your source is right It is long overdue.

[scarlet knight]

Agree with OP.

[alllexandru]

Originally Posted by Nav01L

I‘m told by someone who should know that it’s actually coming back

Ok ok this is it! One can only hope and better be in the first quarter of 2022

[deuxani]

Originally Posted by alllexandru

Ok ok this is it! One can only hope and better be in the first quarter of 2022

On the 1st of April we will know at Watches & Wonders 2022! If they are releasing a new Ingenieur, which will be their biggest release of the year, it has to be at that event.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by bondtoys

IWC made an amazing Ingenieur with an inhouse movement not so long time ago, unfortunately, it was not well reveived

Its size and integrated bracelet made it difficult to fit even a 7in wrist. I tried it numerous times but just couldn't get it to fit right (and this was back when I liked bigger watches).

[DGP]

Told my AD a few months ago if IWC bring out a retro model of it, to put my name down.

[deuxani]

Just curious to see if someone heard any rumours or seen any leaks about a new Ingenieur… it’s so quiet!

[deuxani]

So last week there was a big article on Hodinkee about the Ingenieur SL and Monochrome wrote about the Big Ingenieur. Also in the podcast of Scottish Watches they mentioned IWC is going to reveal something really nice, but they are under NDA so can’t say more. Many signs and it’s so long overdue. Could it finally be happening……

[nickorette]

Wow I've never seen the original, before what a stunner. It's a shame they still don't produce.

I feel the same way with the VC 222. Original is gorgeous, but not a fan of the new designs

[Ravager135]

IWC leans far too hard on their Pilot and Portuguese lines. That's their own fault. I agree completely with your evaluation. While we may not all be fans of the Genta designs, there is clearly a demand out there for them and I think IWC would do well to re-capitalized on it. I think a 41mm chrono and a 39mm time-only offering would be reasonable and fill a niche.

IWC pivoted to making the Ingenieur an online, custom order offering a few years back and you really saw them disappear from ADs as in-stock options. I appreciated their early approach to the "e-boutique" experience, but it just didn't work on a watch that wasn't super popular to begin with.

IWC also underutilizes its Aquatimer line. They really need to establish a consistent design language with their diver. There is no reason it cannot compete with Tudor, Omega, Breitling in this segment of the market. The reason it doesn't is that no one really cares about the Aquatimer. I have always been of the opinion that (like bringing back the Genta design) IWC should go back to the vintage-inspired super compressor case. JLC has had some success with this in their Polaris line. I don't think the Aquatimer will ever truly compete with the more iconic divers on the market, but IWC could do a whole lot more to push these sports watches.

I'd add, there's a ton of rumors that IWC will be updating the Ingenieur line this year. People have been trying to place orders and IWC has reportedly told customers that orders will reopen after April. Let's see what happens.

[deuxani]

Originally Posted by nickorette

Wow I've never seen the original, before what a stunner. It's a shame they still don't produce.

I feel the same way with the VC 222. Original is gorgeous, but not a fan of the new designs

Yeah it’s a real Genta design when you see it next to the original Royal Oak and Nautilus.



I really hope they are going back to this look!

I actually owned the new Overseas 4500V and really loved it. For me personally the 222 looks a bit too dated design wise, but I think that bezel would look better than the current gen bezel.

Originally Posted by Ravager135

IWC leans far too hard on their Pilot and Portuguese lines. That's their own fault. I agree completely with your evaluation. While we may not all be fans of the Genta designs, there is clearly a demand out there for them and I think IWC would do well to re-capitalized on it. I think a 41mm chrono and a 39mm time-only offering would be reasonable and fill a niche.

IWC pivoted to making the Ingenieur an online, custom order offering a few years back and you really saw them disappear from ADs as in-stock options. I appreciated their early approach to the "e-boutique" experience, but it just didn't work on a watch that wasn't super popular to begin with.

IWC also underutilizes its Aquatimer line. They really need to establish a consistent design language with their diver. There is no reason it cannot compete with Tudor, Omega, Breitling in this segment of the market. The reason it doesn't is that no one really cares about the Aquatimer. I have always been of the opinion that (like bringing back the Genta design) IWC should go back to the vintage-inspired super compressor case. JLC has had some success with this in their Polaris line. I don't think the Aquatimer will ever truly compete with the more iconic divers on the market, but IWC could do a whole lot more to push these sports watches.

I'd add, there's a ton of rumors that IWC will be updating the Ingenieur line this year. People have been trying to place orders and IWC has reportedly told customers that orders will reopen after April. Let's see what happens.

Totally agree with everything you said. It’s not just the Ingenieur but definitely the Aquatimer line too yeah. I would love to see the GST make a comeback:



I’m just reaaaallly curious! Can they make it good looking? Because releasing a new Ingenieur or Aquatimer is one thing, making it attractive is another. One of the reasons why I never bought the Ingenieur is that it didn’t look like an expensive watch. Some people specifically want that, but for me I t was too matte, the polished parts didn’t really shine, the dial was boring and I didn’t like the hands and markers. IWC doesn’t really have watches that feel like luxury finishing and most dials are either matte or sunburst, nothing really special, so I hope they surprise me with the new releases.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by deuxani

…I’m just reaaaallly curious! Can they make it good looking? Because releasing a new Ingenieur or Aquatimer is one thing, making it attractive is another. One of the reasons why I never bought the Ingenieur is that it didn’t look like an expensive watch. Some people specifically want that, but for me I t was too matte, the polished parts didn’t really shine, the dial was boring and I didn’t like the hands and markers. IWC doesn’t really have watches that feel like luxury finishing and most dials are either matte or sunburst, nothing really special, so I hope they surprise me with the new releases.

Honestly, in this market, you could release a watch made of tin and chicken wire and people will buy it if it has an integrated bracelet and blue dial.

On top of that, people will fall on their sword at the alter of Genta. IWC are among the very few brands in the enviable position to have a legitimate Genta design. Them not using it in this market is borderline lunacy.

[Ravager135]

Originally Posted by deuxani

I’m just reaaaallly curious! Can they make it good looking? Because releasing a new Ingenieur or Aquatimer is one thing, making it attractive is another. One of the reasons why I never bought the Ingenieur is that it didn’t look like an expensive watch. Some people specifically want that, but for me I t was too matte, the polished parts didn’t really shine, the dial was boring and I didn’t like the hands and markers. IWC doesn’t really have watches that feel like luxury finishing and most dials are either matte or sunburst, nothing really special, so I hope they surprise me with the new releases.

Well I think there is an issue here... Aside from the Portuguese, Portofino, and Da Vinci lines, IWC is not really interested in making their watches look "luxury." The Ingenieur and Aquatimer, like the Pilot line, are tool watches. IWC amplifies this sport aesthetic by brushing the cases, using matte dials, and what some would consider very conservative design.

I do agree that the Ingenieur could do better to bridge that tool/luxury divide. We have a luxury design, but a tool purpose. I think IWC took a step in the wrong direction when they oversized the Ingenieur, tied it into collaborations with automakers, etc. So to your point, restraint in sportiness should be considered.

I also don't think that they should try to make it another Royal Oak. It really should be marketed as a strong anti-magnetic, conservative, multi-purpose watch with a beautiful history design language that can equally make it versatile as an Aqua Terra or Datejust would be.

Obviously these are just my opinions. I'm actually holding a spot in my collection open right now to see what we get (if anything) from this particular line when IWC releases their new stuff in the coming weeks.