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Old 3 March 2019, 11:33 PM   #1
Rolexoman
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So far resting position does not matter

I know lots of you seasoned owners say all is well and this behavior is normal but for me and my OCD I’m having trouble digesting this.

When I first received my DJII from my wife this past Xmas it had all tags intact and all protective plastic still intact and was sold as not new but unused/unworn and upon opening the watch it looked pristine had the warranty card dated 11-17 with apparently the owners name on it and I received it on 12-18 and the watch was originally purchased from a Jeweler in California and then sold apparently unworn to a online reseller ( Bob’s ) who resold it to me.

After opening it I wound it 40 times and initially there was little resistance in the wind but then it started getting tighter and at about 35 turns or so it started to slip like a ratchet and from what I have learned this means fully wound so I started to wear it and just enjoy my first Rolex and first automatic as the only watches I have owned as an adult have been quartz battery, well after one day I noticed it ran approx 5-6 secs fast then day two it was 10-12 secs fast and again what you seasoned vets say is it’s within COSC specs and enjoy but here’s the deal if I leave the watch static as in unworn and just flat for a day it gains no time which I think is odd so I started reading about self regulating so I have tried that for the past couple days and so far crown up or down has no affect on it as it nether gains or loses time just like laying flat and it only seems to gain the 5-6 when wearing so is this normal or should it be looked at
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Old 4 March 2019, 12:38 AM   #2
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I know lots of you seasoned owners say all is well and this behavior is normal but for me and my OCD I’m having trouble digesting this.

When I first received my DJII from my wife this past Xmas it had all tags intact and all protective plastic still intact and was sold as not new but unused/unworn and upon opening the watch it looked pristine had the warranty card dated 11-17 with apparently the owners name on it and I received it on 12-18 and the watch was originally purchased from a Jeweler in California and then sold apparently unworn to a online reseller ( Bob’s ) who resold it to me.

After opening it I wound it 40 times and initially there was little resistance in the wind but then it started getting tighter and at about 35 turns or so it started to slip like a ratchet and from what I have learned this means fully wound so I started to wear it and just enjoy my first Rolex and first automatic as the only watches I have owned as an adult have been quartz battery, well after one day I noticed it ran approx 5-6 secs fast then day two it was 10-12 secs fast and again what you seasoned vets say is it’s within COSC specs and enjoy but here’s the deal if I leave the watch static as in unworn and just flat for a day it gains no time which I think is odd so I started reading about self regulating so I have tried that for the past couple days and so far crown up or down has no affect on it as it nether gains or loses time just like laying flat and it only seems to gain the 5-6 when wearing so is this normal or should it be looked at
How many more times will you keep asking the same question which has been answered several times,I dont think a mechanical watch is for you with your present OCD..If you are not happy then send your watch for regulation via RSC which could take around 3-4 weeks.They will test it on a machine in 5 different positions to say average -2+2 a day but even then it dont mean it will perform exactly the same on your wrist everyday.On the modern 31-32 series movement some may not respond to different self regulate resting position, if they do be are talking about 1-3 seconds max out of 86400 in a day.
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Old 4 March 2019, 01:08 AM   #3
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@padi56 Peter,

I am sorry for beating the horse and I honestly do like the timepiece a lot and if you ask my wife of many many years she will confirm that I overly obsess over every little detail, not sure if it stems from my past military or hanloading of ammo down to the exact 1/10 gn along with sorting bullets by OAL length and weight and the list goes on and on like having all the light switch and outlets screws all facing the same direction...lol

Anyway I want t learn as much as it can here so maybe rather than obsess about over what is normal to everybody but me I need to just enjoy my watch for what it is and respect the engineering that goes into what makes an automatic so special and try to learn more.

Just an FYI when I have tested resting positions it’s only been for maybe 8-10 hrs and as you have pointed out there are 86,400 secs in a day and I keep forgetting this very huge detail and need to realize only being fast or slow by even 10 secs a day is still pretty impressive for something we wear which involves sometimes lots of movement.

And in regard to movement even though my profession is in an office environment my watch must see apparently lots of movement as by days end when I check to see how fully wound it is the ratchet effect still seems to be there like it’s not wound down much at all so I have not even been using the winder I have.
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Old 4 March 2019, 01:39 AM   #4
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@padi56 Peter,

I am sorry for beating the horse and I honestly do like the timepiece a lot and if you ask my wife of many many years she will confirm that I overly obsess over every little detail, not sure if it stems from my past military or hanloading of ammo down to the exact 1/10 gn along with sorting bullets by OAL length and weight and the list goes on and on like having all the light switch and outlets screws all facing the same direction...lol

Anyway I want t learn as much as it can here so maybe rather than obsess about over what is normal to everybody but me I need to just enjoy my watch for what it is and respect the engineering that goes into what makes an automatic so special and try to learn more.

Just an FYI when I have tested resting positions it’s only been for maybe 8-10 hrs and as you have pointed out there are 86,400 secs in a day and I keep forgetting this very huge detail and need to realize only being fast or slow by even 10 secs a day is still pretty impressive for something we wear which involves sometimes lots of movement.

And in regard to movement even though my profession is in an office environment my watch must see apparently lots of movement as by days end when I check to see how fully wound it is the ratchet effect still seems to be there like it’s not wound down much at all so I have not even been using the winder I have.
You cannot test any watch over a few hours,try this first fully manual wind your watch 40 full crown turns clockwise only,and if you have a quartz watch sync both watches thats accurate enough for this test.Then wear your watch for 8 plus hours a day,check time once only daily with the setting quartz watch for 5 days.Write down the loss or gain then average the loss or gain over the 5 days for a more accurate result.Now if watch is vastly out of COSC spec wait a week or so if watch still performs way out have it regulated.
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Old 4 March 2019, 02:46 AM   #5
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. . .

Just an FYI when I have tested resting positions it’s only been for maybe 8-10 hrs and as you have pointed out there are 86,400 secs in a day and I keep forgetting this very huge detail and need to realize only being fast or slow by even 10 secs a day is still pretty impressive for something we wear which involves sometimes lots of movement.

. . .
Positional changes will always change the timing, it's physics - not magic.

However, a change by a fraction of a percent is unlikely to be noticeable if, every few hours, you keep changing the changes.

If you want better daily accuracy, have your watch regulated, it's easy and quick.
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Old 4 March 2019, 02:47 AM   #6
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I know lots of you seasoned owners say all is well and this behavior is normal but for me and my OCD I’m having trouble digesting this.

When I first received my DJII from my wife this past Xmas it had all tags intact and all protective plastic still intact and was sold as not new but unused/unworn and upon opening the watch it looked pristine had the warranty card dated 11-17 with apparently the owners name on it and I received it on 12-18 and the watch was originally purchased from a Jeweler in California and then sold apparently unworn to a online reseller ( Bob’s ) who resold it to me.

After opening it I wound it 40 times and initially there was little resistance in the wind but then it started getting tighter and at about 35 turns or so it started to slip like a ratchet and from what I have learned this means fully wound so I started to wear it and just enjoy my first Rolex and first automatic as the only watches I have owned as an adult have been quartz battery, well after one day I noticed it ran approx 5-6 secs fast then day two it was 10-12 secs fast and again what you seasoned vets say is it’s within COSC specs and enjoy but here’s the deal if I leave the watch static as in unworn and just flat for a day it gains no time which I think is odd so I started reading about self regulating so I have tried that for the past couple days and so far crown up or down has no affect on it as it nether gains or loses time just like laying flat and it only seems to gain the 5-6 when wearing so is this normal or should it be looked at
OCD is a serious condition, have you seen your doctor about it?
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Old 4 March 2019, 03:11 AM   #7
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OCD is a serious condition, have you seen your doctor about it?
I joke about the OCD, i don’t not think I suffer from it seriously but my wife always tells me I do
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Old 4 March 2019, 10:05 AM   #8
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Old 4 March 2019, 10:58 AM   #9
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Rather than clog up this current thread in regard to regulating and running fast I figured I would flat out ask if my understanding below is correct.

As it’s been pointed out to me automatics don’t run as accurately as quartz and this is finally sinking in but this is where I’m confused, as I said I set my watch time to almost the exact second 2.5 days ago and at the end of Day 1 it was approx 5 secs fast then last evening it was running 10 secs fast and I was thinking ok it’s only gaining 5 secs each day and even though it’s on the high end of specs that’s ok but now today as I just looked it’s still about the same 10 secs fast so it’s like it sped up to the 10 and now seems to not be gaining or losing time.

So I need you guys to break this down for me in very simple terms and tell me if I am correct, if the watch runs 5 secs fast every day and after 5 days its 25 secs fast then that’s an average of 5 secs a day and it’s within COSC spec and then if say it’s 5 secs fast for 3 days then 2 secs fast the next 2 then that’s a total of 19 secs and an avg of 3.8 a day and finally if it’s 5 secs fast for 3 days a total of 15 sec and then neither gain or lose time over the next 2 days then that’s an average of 3 secs a day so is this correct ?

I also think I am over winding the watch as one of my one full turns of the crown I’m sure is more like 5 as the crown is small and I’m just rolling it with my thumb and forefinger

I’m sorry for being such thick headed just wanting to wrap my head around this watch thing and initially I was thinking for what these time pieces cost they would run accurately down to 1/10th of a second but as its pointed out it’s all mechanical and there is a lot going on inside the case that’s being affected by all sorts of outside influences.

Cheers

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Old 4 March 2019, 01:28 PM   #10
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Rolexoman, I think everyone of us was surprised at one time or another that a ROLEX's time keeping ability is much less reliable than a $2 quartz. I too expected a $15000 watch to keep time perfectly...until it was pointed out that it doesnt. At that time common sense quickly took over and the inevitability of physics in regards to a mechanical device was indisputable. That reflection only makes one appreciate the eloquence in the movement that much more. Enjoy your Rolex; for its actually a mechanical marvel that it can be as accurate as it is.
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Old 7 March 2019, 02:37 PM   #11
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Rolexoman, I think everyone of us was surprised at one time or another that a ROLEX's time keeping ability is much less reliable than a $2 quartz. I too expected a $15000 watch to keep time perfectly...until it was pointed out that it doesnt. At that time common sense quickly took over and the inevitability of physics in regards to a mechanical device was indisputable. That reflection only makes one appreciate the eloquence in the movement that much more. Enjoy your Rolex; for its actually a mechanical marvel that it can be as accurate as it is.
I believe that sums it up right there
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Old 8 March 2019, 03:40 AM   #12
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I'll be a sympathetic ear here... I picked up a 10 year old 14060M. It had barely been worn. It was about +15. After a demag and a month on the wrist it has settled down to about +8; roughly a minute a week. Just a little outside COSC. At first I was a little disappointed but I got to thinking about it and figured this is a 10 year old watch that nothing has been done to. And it still runs fine. A quartz watch is not going to do that trick. And it could probably run for another 10 and be about the same. I will probably send it in for a service after the one year warranty expires but for now, it's really a minor miracle.

It's just tough on TRF where everyone owns a Rolex that goes months without losing or gaining a second... Jewelers and techs I've talked said it does happen but yours and mines performance is far more typical.
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Old 8 March 2019, 06:45 AM   #13
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Well I have been non scientifically testing my watch and here’s what I did following @padi56 suggestion.

I started day 1 with it fully wound and then set both it and my Citizens Eco-Drive to the exact second using Watchville and proceeded to wear it 8-10 hrs a day and when taking it off I rested it in my winder but left it static ( not running ) with the crown in the 3 o’clock position and so far after 3 days it’s gained 8 secs a day so I will continue to wear for another 2 days to ensure the 8 secs each day is consistent and I will start over doing the same but for the next 5 days after setting to correct time will be to rest it with the crown at the 12 o’clock position and see what I get for another 5 days.

So with that said would one look to having it regulated if it still stays at the 8 secs a day or 4 mins fast a month and would this be covered under warranty, the watch was purchased from an online reseller ( Bob’s ) and was unworn with tags and protective film on it and the warranty card was dated 11/17 and I purchased the watch on 12/18

I have no idea on the age of the watch but know it was sold to its original owner about a year before I purchased it
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Old 9 March 2019, 11:16 PM   #14
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Good morning Gents,

I just finished doing my 5 day test as @padi56 suggested and my DJII is running right at 7 secs fast each day, my testing was done starting off with a fully wound watch 5 days ago and time was set using the Watchville app and then I wore it each day for 10-12 hrs then put it in my winder that was shut off with the crown in the 0300 position.

Right before going in the winder each day I verified the time or the app and also the quartz watch as a backup that was set at the same time and it’s a solid 7 secs fast so with that said would you guys take this watch in for regulation.

I have no idea on the age of this watch but it was purchased from Bob’s watches and arrived to me on 12/25/18 as a gift from my wife and the watch came with all papers and a dated warranty card of 11/17 and it had all tags still hanging and the protective plastic was still on the bracelet

I know according to COSC standard this piece is slightly out of spec so I was thinking maybe instead of taking it in was to test another 5 days but this time let it rest say with the crown up and see if that slows it down some.

So with all my rambling what would you guys do, I’m glad it’s fast by the same amount everyday as this can be corrected by regulation but that’s the rub is it worth it to take it in to a RSC here in Houston to have it done.
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Old 10 March 2019, 02:36 AM   #15
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Good morning Gents,

I just finished doing my 5 day test as @padi56 suggested and my DJII is running right at 7 secs fast each day, my testing was done starting off with a fully wound watch 5 days ago and time was set using the Watchville app and then I wore it each day for 10-12 hrs then put it in my winder that was shut off with the crown in the 0300 position.

Right before going in the winder each day I verified the time or the app and also the quartz watch as a backup that was set at the same time and it’s a solid 7 secs fast so with that said would you guys take this watch in for regulation.

I have no idea on the age of this watch but it was purchased from Bob’s watches and arrived to me on 12/25/18 as a gift from my wife and the watch came with all papers and a dated warranty card of 11/17 and it had all tags still hanging and the protective plastic was still on the bracelet

I know according to COSC standard this piece is slightly out of spec so I was thinking maybe instead of taking it in was to test another 5 days but this time let it rest say with the crown up and see if that slows it down some.

So with all my rambling what would you guys do, I’m glad it’s fast by the same amount everyday as this can be corrected by regulation but that’s the rub is it worth it to take it in to a RSC here in Houston to have it done.
The clock in the Watchville app it states Atomic time synced but in the real world all that means essentially that an atomic clock was involved somewhere. But with all of these so called timing apps there are additional delays introduced to whatever operating system you are using plus the graphics hardware. What this means even if the app knows the exact time it will take a certain amount of time to build the screen graphic commands send them to the whatever system possessor and into memory,none of the phone apps are 100% accurate.But if you are not happy with the results showing by this app have watch regulated.But even if regulated on a machine it dont always mean it will perform exactly the same on the wrist as test results on machine and there are 86400 seconds in a day.Speaking for myself I would never open a very consistent watch for perhaps 4 seconds daily difference.
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Old 10 March 2019, 06:48 AM   #16
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Well I took it in to an AD here in Houston and the jeweler asked me some questions and then looked and the watch and asked me about winding it and after a few mins he took it back to his little work area and laid it on a thing that looked like a microphone and turned it on and said let’s see what the numbers say, well after about 20 mins his said there were a few things off like B.E and rate and it had to be sent to the RSC in Dallas and would take a few weeks, I asked him how bad it was and he said it should have never left Rolex timed the way it was and it’s under warranty and they will make it right so we will see what happens in a month.
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Old 10 March 2019, 07:32 AM   #17
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Oh boy.
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Old 10 March 2019, 11:36 AM   #18
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Oh boy.
That’s what I thought and I have no idea what B.E is, he assured me they would take care of it and not worry about it
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Old 10 March 2019, 02:27 PM   #19
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So far resting position does not matter

Beat Error
Beat error is the measurement of time between each swing if the balance wheel and the comparison of the two.

It’s measured in mSec and if amplitude is strong might never affect timekeeping accuracy. But other factors are also at play and you should just trust the AD’s measurements.




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Old 10 March 2019, 11:21 PM   #20
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Beat Error
Beat error is the measurement of time between each swing if the balance wheel and the comparison of the two.

It’s measured in mSec and if amplitude is strong might never affect timekeeping accuracy. But other factors are also at play and you should just trust the AD’s measurements.




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Beat error huh.... well my heart skipped a few beats when they said they had to send it off, I inquired as to why there local watch guy couldn’t adjust and they said it had to go to the RSC as it’s under warranty and the closet one is in Dallas TX

I started asking them about other watches they carried and all they currently carry is Rolex but did bring me out a Tudor branded watch to look at, the gal told me that they are considering carrying them

Said she would make me a deal on this one and hated to see me leave with no watch on, I had to show a good deal of restraint to pass on this

https://photos.app.goo.gl/KwGaVxXWCyqowNS6A
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Old 11 March 2019, 04:37 AM   #21
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Consider buying a watch demagnetetizer - your watch becoming magnetized is probably the most common causes of poor accuracy in an otherwise perfect timepiece.
They’re very inexpensive online, and you really can’t hurt you watch much even if you don’t know what you’re doing.
Try it and see if this changes by a few seconds.
And I agree with previous comments… Stop worrying so much about a few seconds. If you can’t let it go, then a automatic watch isn’t for you. If you can, then just enjoy things for what they are. Life is short.....
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Old 11 March 2019, 06:44 PM   #22
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Consider buying a watch demagnetetizer - your watch becoming magnetized is probably the most common causes of poor accuracy in an otherwise perfect timepiece.
They’re very inexpensive online, and you really can’t hurt you watch much even if you don’t know what you’re doing.
Try it and see if this changes by a few seconds.
And I agree with previous comments… Stop worrying so much about a few seconds. If you can’t let it go, then a automatic watch isn’t for you. If you can, then just enjoy things for what they are. Life is short.....
I had wondered about this as a possiblility as it seemed to keep pretty close time when I first got it but the longer I had it the faster it ran and I have been putting it in a winder at least a few times a week, it’s a Heiden Quad winder and it’s the older style

Very similar to this one one but the dip switches are inside and not on the back

https://www.buywatchwinders.com/heid...YaAjNzEALw_wcB
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Old 12 March 2019, 08:10 AM   #23
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For what its worth, I have found with both my SubC and Seamaster 300m (Caliber 1120) that they are more accurate on the wrist than off. Similarly, i have seen daily rate variances of +/- 3 sec per day on the automatic winder, but on the wrist they regularly run +/- 1 sec/day. I believe it has to do with the more random positioning of the movement when worn, versus the relatively static position (typically 12-up) on the winder.

There is a free app I use called WatchCheck that syncs with atomic time, and is designed to track over time the accuracy of multiple mechanical watches simultaneously. There are several other apps available for this same purpose. Give one of them a shot if you want an easier process than manually tracking via a separate time source.
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Old 12 March 2019, 11:04 AM   #24
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Well I will be curious as to what issues if any they find with my watch but the jeweler/watch guy that timed it said there were a few things out of of spec but when I told him it consistently ran fast the same amount while wearing and while being in my winder he said as many have said consistency is good and the RSC will make it right but he also said it being fast 45-55 secs a week was not within Rolexes specs but lots of things affect the +/- 2 which apparently is the new tolerance and I had always heard -4/+6
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Old 13 March 2019, 06:10 AM   #25
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Well I will be curious as to what issues if any they find with my watch but the jeweler/watch guy that timed it said there were a few things out of of spec but when I told him it consistently ran fast the same amount while wearing and while being in my winder he said as many have said consistency is good and the RSC will make it right but he also said it being fast 45-55 secs a week was not within Rolexes specs but lots of things affect the +/- 2 which apparently is the new tolerance and I had always heard -4/+6
They'll probably regulate your watch or fit a weaker mainspring. Fuss about nothing.
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Old 13 March 2019, 09:13 PM   #26
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They'll probably regulate your watch or fit a weaker mainspring. Fuss about nothing.
Well I hope I get it back soon, it’s been less than a week and withdrawl symptoms are already kicking in, I am wearing this one until it gets back and even though it’s a nice watch it just does not have that appeal

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Old 13 March 2019, 09:22 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by WiseRat View Post
For what its worth, I have found with both my SubC and Seamaster 300m (Caliber 1120) that they are more accurate on the wrist than off. Similarly, i have seen daily rate variances of +/- 3 sec per day on the automatic winder, but on the wrist they regularly run +/- 1 sec/day. I believe it has to do with the more random positioning of the movement when worn, versus the relatively static position (typically 12-up) on the winder.

There is a free app I use called WatchCheck that syncs with atomic time, and is designed to track over time the accuracy of multiple mechanical watches simultaneously. There are several other apps available for this same purpose. Give one of them a shot if you want an easier process than manually tracking via a separate time source.
Not sure how a watch can be relatively static on a revolving winder?

But you are on the right track.
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Old 14 March 2019, 02:10 AM   #28
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Not sure how a watch can be relatively static on a revolving winder?

But you are on the right track.
By static I think it means just on the pillow holder but not having it rotate just a place to keep the watch when not wearing but also not winding
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Old 14 March 2019, 11:35 AM   #29
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Mine does the same crap, but it runs slow, not fast.

In fact, it went from running perfect (less than -1 spd), to running -9 spd in 5 months.
Then returned to almost perfect in a other 3 months.
Now it's slid back to like -4 spd after a few more months.

Measured every day, it's like a slow constant drift one way or the other. Interesting. Never a big jump.

I don't want to send it in for fear of withdrawal.

I'm VERY interested to hear what RSC says. Please keep us updated!

If Rolex says it runs +- 2 spd. If it doesn't, then it's not operating correctly. IMHO.

At thirteen gees, I would expect it to work right when new.

I'll definitely sent it in before the warranty runs out. I have plenty of time, I'm just watching it for now.

Good luck!
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Old 14 March 2019, 07:51 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyV View Post
Mine does the same crap, but it runs slow, not fast.

In fact, it went from running perfect (less than -1 spd), to running -9 spd in 5 months.
Then returned to almost perfect in a other 3 months.
Now it's slid back to like -4 spd after a few more months.

Measured every day, it's like a slow constant drift one way or the other. Interesting. Never a big jump.

I don't want to send it in for fear of withdrawal.

I'm VERY interested to hear what RSC says. Please keep us updated!

If Rolex says it runs +- 2 spd. If it doesn't, then it's not operating correctly. IMHO.

At thirteen gees, I would expect it to work right when new.

I'll definitely sent it in before the warranty runs out. I have plenty of time, I'm just watching it for now.

Good luck!
It states its been tested after casing -2+2, how do they test well on a machine in a controlled environment.But on the wrist with different wearing habits just to many variables to overcome.It does not mean it will perform exactly the same every day for life only the fact it's been tested much like the COSC test. Many things affect mechanical watches like the earth's gravity,different temperatures,mainspring power-reserve,shocks,metal expansion and contraction,changes in lubrication and friction. Remember this the escapement of a mechanical watch in 24 hours pushes the gears 432,000 times and a day has 86,400 seconds.
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