The Official Formula One Thread!

[sillo]

That Merc looks like a handful from the onboards, but it's damn fast. I also kinda feel bad for Williams. It just looks all kind of jacked up. Slow and unpredictable.

On a side note does anybody else notice the cameras seem to be capturing the true speed of these cars better this year? I can't be imagining it.

[Rolex Essex]

Originally Posted by sillo38

That Merc looks like a handful from the onboards, but it's damn fast. I also kinda feel bad for Williams. It just looks all kind of jacked up. Slow and unpredictable.

More annoyingly they have one decent and one promising driver wasted on their team

[mangoseed]

Originally Posted by sillo38

That Merc looks like a handful from the onboards, but it's damn fast. I also kinda feel bad for Williams. It just looks all kind of jacked up. Slow and unpredictable.

On a side note does anybody else notice the cameras seem to be capturing the true speed of these cars better this year? I can't be imagining it.

Groundhog day

[OmegaJJH]

Originally Posted by sillo38

On a side note does anybody else notice the cameras seem to be capturing the true speed of these cars better this year? I can't be imagining it.

You aren’t imagining it (although I’ve not seen it myself)

They announced last year they would be trialling new camera angles this season.



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[zama]

New regs same results.......

[mangoseed]

The return of KUBICA is the one and only interesting thing about this F1 season. If not for his injury he may well have been the one who ended up at Ferrari instead of Vettel.

[OmegaJJH]

Team orders in race 1 is ridiculous!!!!


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[sillo]

Gasly’s debut was pretty underwhelming. Verstappen made quick work of the Ferrari and he couldn’t get by the Toro Rosso to get into the points.

What’s up with Haas, wheel nuts and Australia?


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[Rolex Essex]

Bottas was in league of his own and took the fastest lap off Verstappen. Well done to him.
Verstappen was on fire, Honda engines is up with the best now.

Ferrari as always being dirty with team orders, poor Leclerc.

[zama]

Looks like another long silver season..... Melbourne not usually a track they do well at.

[Razorsedge1]

Originally Posted by zama

Looks like another long silver season..... Melbourne not usually a track they do well at.

Bottas was on fire. Hoping Ferrari would make it a little more interesting this year.

I like extra point for fastest lap.

[OmegaJJH]

Originally Posted by Razorsedge1

I like extra point for fastest lap.

I thought it was a bit of a gimmick but the drivers certainly seem to have bought in to it!!


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[goin camping]

Pretty good race for me. Bottas was on fire! Kubica came back. Hopefully he'll improve as the races unfold but that mid pack was wild!

Leclerc was great. He's gonna give vettel a rough time and verstappen raced a mature race. That guy has talent when he can control himself.

If Hamiltons car gets dialed in. The Mercs will be formidable.

Some of you are pretty bored but I see a fantastic season ahead.

[mangoseed]

Originally Posted by goin camping

Pretty good race for me. Bottas was on fire! Kubica came back. Hopefully he'll improve as the races unfold but that mid pack was wild!

Leclerc was great. He's gonna give vettel a rough time and verstappen raced a mature race. That guy has talent when he can control himself.

If Hamiltons car gets dialed in. The Mercs will be formidable.

Some of you are pretty bored but I see a fantastic season ahead.

Would you say that the last two seasons of F1 were fantastic?

[joeychitwood]

I greatly enjoy open wheel racing, but try as I might, I have a hard time getting excited about watching a Sunday race. The problems in my mind are as follows:

No lead changes. From start to finish. It seems the only passing occurs far back in the field.

The money and talent gaps between elite teams and the rest are too great to overcome. There is little competition.

Except for Monaco, the tracks all look the same. I'm old enough to remember the diversity and beauty of European race tracks.

The tire rules are ridiculous. Let everybody race with the best tires the entire race. I'm surprised the F1 overlords don't require that throttles be severely limited for a certain percentage of the race.

F1 is a glamorous sport with a rich tradition, but I really think that issues need to be addressed to increase fan passion and interest.

[77T]

Originally Posted by OmegaJJH

I thought it was a bit of a gimmick but the drivers certainly seem to have bought in to it!!

Extra point opportunities are an important strategy for avoiding ties at season’s end. For example, pole position and race fastest lap.

In amateur ranks it also works to avoid drivers cherry-picking while chasing season points. For example, 12 points per win plus 1 point per car you beat in your class. That way a driver going to a low car count event gets minimum points for a win, but another who wins at a high car count event gets more points.


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[mangoseed]

Originally Posted by 77T

Extra point opportunities are an important strategy for avoiding ties at season’s end. For example, pole position and race fastest lap.

In amateur ranks it also works to avoid drivers cherry-picking while chasing season points. For example, 12 points per win plus 1 point per car you beat in your class. That way a driver going to a low car count event gets minimum points for a win, but another who wins at a high car count event gets more points.


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As long as their are a fixed number of points given out per race. What really grinds my gears about Indycar and NASCAR is that they give extra points to anyone who leads a lap, meaning that there is not a fixed number of points given out for each race.

[77T]

True

But there is a max # of points any driver can get per race.


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[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

No lead changes. From start to finish. It seems the only passing occurs far back in the field.

The money and talent gaps between elite teams and the rest are too great to overcome. There is little competition.

This is a problem in terms of the sport growing new audiences, that's a certainty. However, this has been an issue for as long as I can remember watching F1, starting with Nigel Mansell's championship season in '92 when Stevie Wonder could've beaten the field in that Williams car. The history of F1 is littered with dominant teams and cars: McLaren in the late 80's/early 90's; Williams in the mid 90's; McLaren again in the late 90's then Ferrari for 5 years during Schumacher's heyday in the early 2000s; then a bit of a mix-up for a few seasons, then RB for 4 years and now Merc the last 5. Liberty are looking at making major changes from 2021 onwards to address the overtaking issue. I have my doubts as to how successful they will be.

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

Except for Monaco, the tracks all look the same. I'm old enough to remember the diversity and beauty of European race tracks.

Chalk this one down to Bernie's single-minded pursuit of the bottom line to the exclusion of any other consideration. He awarded races to the highest bidder, which meant that dodgy regimes looking for prestige (Russia, Bahrain, China) and countries with emerging economies looking to assert themselves on the world stage (India, South Korea, Malaysia) took precedence over traditional races which offered less cash. As a result, a lot of new circuits were built and they were all desgned by one man, Hermann Tilke. You're in good company, many of the drivers have voiced their preference for traditional circuits over the often dull, soulless, identikit "Tilkedromes". In fairness though there are more classic tracks on the calendar this year than there have been for many years.

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

The tire rules are ridiculous. Let everybody race with the best tires the entire race. I'm surprised the F1 overlords don't require that throttles be severely limited for a certain percentage of the race.

This has been tried. However dull you think the spectacle may be, it has been worse. When Bridgestone supplied tyres, the rubber lasted forever. It meant that races became time trials interspersed with the odd pit stop for tyres and/or fuel. The racing was often worse. Believe it or not, Pirelli were instructed by Bernie/the teams/rulemakers to construct tyres that were brittle, to introduce another variable into the races and to induce pitstops - i.e. they were supposed to make the racing better.

Ultimately, F1 has always been an engineering competition between teams far more than purely a competition between drivers. There are always going to be people who really don't like that and never will. Which is fine, because there are so many other motorsports where the machinery is standardised to the degree that the competition is purely between the pilots - MotoGP, Nascar, Touring Cars, V8 Supercars etc.

[sillo]

Originally Posted by mangoseed

Would you say that the last two seasons of F1 were fantastic?

I thought last season was very good. A few snoozefests (Canada being the worst), but plenty of exciting racing and the battle for WDC lasted late into the season.


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[mangoseed]

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

This is a problem in terms of the sport growing new audiences, that's a certainty. However, this has been an issue for as long as I can remember watching F1, starting with Nigel Mansell's championship season in '92 when Stevie Wonder could've beaten the field in that Williams car. The history of F1 is littered with dominant teams and cars: McLaren in the late 80's/early 90's; Williams in the mid 90's; McLaren again in the late 90's then Ferrari for 5 years during Schumacher's heyday in the early 2000s; then a bit of a mix-up for a few seasons, then RB for 4 years and now Merc the last 5. Liberty are looking at making major changes from 2021 onwards to address the overtaking issue. I have my doubts as to how successful they will be.



Chalk this one down to Bernie's single-minded pursuit of the bottom line to the exclusion of any other consideration. He awarded races to the highest bidder, which meant that dodgy regimes looking for prestige (Russia, Bahrain, China) and countries with emerging economies looking to assert themselves on the world stage (India, South Korea, Malaysia) took precedence over traditional races which offered less cash. As a result, a lot of new circuits were built and they were all desgned by one man, Hermann Tilke. You're in good company, many of the drivers have voiced their preference for traditional circuits over the often dull, soulless, identikit "Tilkedromes". In fairness though there are more classic tracks on the calendar this year than there have been for many years.



This has been tried. However dull you think the spectacle may be, it has been worse. When Bridgestone supplied tyres, the rubber lasted forever. It meant that races became time trials interspersed with the odd pit stop for tyres and/or fuel. The racing was often worse. Believe it or not, Pirelli were instructed by Bernie/the teams/rulemakers to construct tyres that were brittle, to introduce another variable into the races and to induce pitstops - i.e. they were supposed to make the racing better.

Ultimately, F1 has always been an engineering competition between teams far more than purely a competition between drivers. There are always going to be people who really don't like that and never will. Which is fine, because there are so many other motorsports where the machinery is standardised to the degree that the competition is purely between the pilots - MotoGP, Nascar, Touring Cars, V8 Supercars etc.

The biggest problem with modern F1 is that it is all about conservation, conserving tires and especially fuel. Drivers are only driving to the limit for a very small part of the race.

[goin camping]

Originally Posted by mangoseed

Would you say that the last two seasons of F1 were fantastic?

Some of the races were but the last two seasons were very enjoyable for me.

[V25V]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

I

The money and talent gaps between elite teams and the rest are too great to overcome. There is little competition.



The tire rules are ridiculous. Let everybody race with the best tires the entire race. I'm surprised the F1 overlords don't require that throttles be severely limited for a certain percentage of the race.

What's funny about these two statements is that the supposed intention of F1 for some of these rules are to keep costs down, it just does the opposite. Then they use these crap motors that sound awful in an attempt to keep with the fuel efficiency game which manufacturers adhere to for street cars, its a total joke. F1 is getting worse and worse and they just don't seem to see that. Motorsport is dying a slow and painful death in general and feel F1 is leading the way, only racing worth watching these days is grassroots.

[joeychitwood]

Ah, the good-old, bad-old days of F1 Grand Prix racing. This original poster hangs in my home office. A romantic time in racing, but also a deadly time.

[RW16610]

Love the poster, Joey I've been considering getting into collecting those also. What an era it was.

[dba]

Originally Posted by V25V

What's funny about these two statements is that the supposed intention of F1 for some of these rules are to keep costs down, it just does the opposite. Then they use these crap motors that sound awful in an attempt to keep with the fuel efficiency game which manufacturers adhere to for street cars, its a total joke. F1 is getting worse and worse and they just don't seem to see that. Motorsport is dying a slow and painful death in general and feel F1 is leading the way, only racing worth watching these days is grassroots.

The four CEOs of the companies that supply engines to F1 all answer to a board of directors and loosely, to shareholders. That’s reality. What’s not reality is entertaining the thought that ANY type of motorsport is green. Hybrid engines are cute, but they’re expensive and their value to the environment isn’t enough for me to pay an extra $13k so I can sooth my conscience and pretend I’m a tree hugger. When CEOs find the fortitude to tell the environmentalists to choose something else to rail on about, perhaps the pendulum will swing towards motorsport being better spectator event.

Until the time Jean Todt convinced the owners of F1 and the team principals to use hybrid tech, F1 was always about conspicuous waste. Unlimited tires, fuel and spare parts. Unlimited money. Bernie Ecclestone said, “If you can’t afford to go racing, don’t go.” Do I think Ferrari spending $600m a year on F1 make their road cars more expensive? Don’t care. If I want a Ferrari road car, I’ll get one. What I do know is this, since the beginning of 2014, F1 races have been a strategy of tire and fuel management, not racing.


V25V, you’re completely right. Motorsport is dying. And it’s being led to its death by CEOs trying to placate people that don’t even care.

[V25V]

Originally Posted by dba

The four CEOs of the companies that supply engines to F1 all answer to a board of directors and loosely, to shareholders. That’s reality. What’s not reality is entertaining the thought that ANY type of motorsport is green. Hybrid engines are cute, but they’re expensive and their value to the environment isn’t enough for me to pay an extra $13k so I can sooth my conscience and pretend I’m a tree hugger. When CEOs find the fortitude to tell the environmentalists to choose something else to rail on about, perhaps the pendulum will swing towards motorsport being better spectator event.

Until the time Jean Todt convinced the owners of F1 and the team principals to use hybrid tech, F1 was always about conspicuous waste. Unlimited tires, fuel and spare parts. Unlimited money. Bernie Ecclestone said, “If you can’t afford to go racing, don’t go.” Do I think Ferrari spending $600m a year on F1 make their road cars more expensive? Don’t care. If I want a Ferrari road car, I’ll get one. What I do know is this, since the beginning of 2014, F1 races have been a strategy of tire and fuel management, not racing.


V25V, you’re completely right. Motorsport is dying. And it’s being led to its death by CEOs trying to placate people that don’t even care.

Agree with everything you said. Sometimes I wonder if I am just becoming the old guy who "doesn't get it" any longer. Do the kids watch this and get really excited the way we used to? Do they find the old way of racing boring? Gosh, I certainly hope not. But with Formula E and Sim Racing becoming all too popular, I am not sure we are in the majority, very likely not. So what becomes of motor racing? Electric hair dryers racing around and kids in sim cockpits across the world racing each other on the internet? That sounds awful!

[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by dba

Until the time Jean Todt convinced the owners of F1 and the team principals to use hybrid tech, F1 was always about conspicuous waste. Unlimited tires, fuel and spare parts. Unlimited money. Bernie Ecclestone said, “If you can’t afford to go racing, don’t go.” Do I think Ferrari spending $600m a year on F1 make their road cars more expensive? Don’t care. If I want a Ferrari road car, I’ll get one. What I do know is this, since the beginning of 2014, F1 races have been a strategy of tire and fuel management, not racing.

Michael Schumacher won five titles in a row with Ferrari from 2000-2004. He routinely won races by 20, 30 and 40 seconds. The tyres were ultra durable, there was no fuel restriction, he was sitting in front of a thirsty 3L V10. The racing was every bit as boring - more so to my recollection - than anything that’s been served up in the turbo hybrid era.

‘Twas ever thus.

[V25V]

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

Michael Schumacher won five titles in a row with Ferrari from 2000-2004. He routinely won races by 20, 30 and 40 seconds. The tyres were ultra durable, there was no fuel restriction, he was sitting in front of a thirsty 3L V10. The racing was every bit as boring - more so to my recollection - than anything that’s been served up in the turbo hybrid era.

‘Twas ever thus.

There is no disputing the disparity between manufacturer teams and everyone else. But the cars back then were not what they are now and that in itself made it much more interesting than what we have now. And I still recall there being much more overtaking and drama back then over what we have now, only we now generally have Hamilton running away and not Schumacher.

[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by V25V

There is no disputing the disparity between manufacturer teams and everyone else. But the cars back then were not what they are now and that in itself made it much more interesting than what we have now. And I still recall there being much more overtaking and drama back then over what we have now, only we now generally have Hamilton running away and not Schumacher.

The numbers tell a different story.

Check out the first graph on the page here http://cliptheapex.com/overtaking/

The 2000’s were the historical nadir in terms of frequency of overtaking.