Rolex Tiffany Archive Papers

[swish77]

For years I've read and heard that Tiffany won't authenticate/confirm a vintage Rolex branded and sold by Tiffany. I even got that info myself at Tiffany customer service at its flagship store in Manhattan a couple of years ago. So, the consensus was that without the original Rolex guarantee paper with Tiffany's name on it, the Tiffany stamp on the dial is virtually meaningless, value-wise anyway, because it couldn't be confirmed as authenticate. (I know that's debatable, but it certainly doesn't add much value if there's no supporting paperwork.)

Then I stumbled upon this recent auction for a Daytona 6263 with a new (2020) Tiffany archive paper and separate letter, confirming the watch was indeed a Tiffany-branded Rolex sold by the retailer.

https://www.phillips.com/detail/role...3&searchPage=1

Anyone else heard of this? I wonder if it's a new service Tiffany's now provides, almost like Omega does with its vintage watches. If so, it's a game-changer for Tiffany-branded Rolexes.

This Daytona sold for about $179,000, and you gotta assume that the new Tiffany paperwork was a huge part of that.

[1665fan]

New to me.....sweet grail for sure

[Kingface66]

Why does that document look like it came out of my Canon printer?

[BigBlue1]

Never been polished

[dpa94114]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

Why does that document look like it came out of my Canon printer?

FOP - friend of Phillips

The Phillips auction prices are crazy high, so I'm sure the "document" was produced only because they asked for it.

If someone can explain the beauty of the word "Tiffany' on your dial, I'd love to hear it.

[Richard Carver]

That would be great! All those fakes outed instantly! Soon there would be as many Tiffany dials as Cartier Rolex dials, ever seen a Cartier Rolex dial? Cartier kept records. :)

[Old Expat Beast]

I wonder if Domino's Pizza or Winn-Dixie supermarkets offers a similar archive service

[GoingPlaces]

I was told there was no way for them to authenticate. I inherited my fathers DJ and thought we lost the paperwork. A few years later my mother found the certificate with the T stamp on it so all good there. Only the box is missing. I was always told without the certificate it's a no-go.

Not sure how the above Daytona can be certified, would love to find out.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by GoingPlaces

I was told there was no way for them to authenticate.

Not sure how the above Daytona can be certified, would love to find out.

Yup, that's been my understanding too. I've passed on some (apparently) great Tiffany-stamped vintage Rolexes through the years because they didn't have the original paperwork. Now I'm kicking myself, assuming this is a real service that Tiffany offers, although you could also get bad news if the dial has been faked.

I can't imagine that Phillips would make this up, but maybe you need the clout of a major auction house for Tiffany to do this. Who knows. Someone with a Tiffany dial should do a test to see if they now offer this service for everyone.

[Filipão]

Originally Posted by dpa94114

FOP - friend of Phillips


If someone can explain the beauty of the word "Tiffany' on your dial, I'd love to hear it.

Just adding another "line" on dials.

I pass, being a "purist"

[GoingPlaces]

Originally Posted by swish77

Yup, that's been my understanding too. I've passed on some (apparently) great Tiffany-stamped vintage Rolexes through the years because they didn't have the original paperwork. Now I'm kicking myself, assuming this is a real service that Tiffany offers, although you could also get bad news if the dial has been faked.

I can't imagine that Phillips would make this up, but maybe you need the clout of a major auction house for Tiffany to do this. Who knows. Someone with a Tiffany dial should do a test to see if they now offer this service for everyone.

Clout would be my sense. Everyone gains, Rolex, Tiffany’s, and of course Phillips. Would be nice if there was a service available to verify authenticity of these pieces.


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[andresrrcf]

I recently acquired a tt sub from 91; Tiffany dial. Since it came w/o papers, I sent it to RSC. On the paper that my Rolex Boutique included with my watch, I stated to no replace dial/hands/insert; only service movement. I received a letter with the estimate from Rolex, along with a statement that they no longer had ‘that’ dial and hands. The only piece that they deemed necessary to replace was the crown and gasket (to guarantee WR). If it were fake, they would have stated dial as not being genuine/or aftermarket. Furthermore, they wouldn’t have touched it, according to their policies. It was a gamble on my end, but I assumed the risk. I should have my watch freshly serviced by Rolex (they now have a department that services older pieces according to what I understand from their letter), with Rolex Service Warranty. I need to add that I purchased my Sub from a reputable Vintage Rolex Dealer. But I still wanted that extra level of assurance...

[joli160]

Originally Posted by andresrrcf

But I still wanted that extra level of assurance...

Which you still don’t have....

Your dial is Rolex original but not necessarily Tiffany original.
Now if the RSC made reference of your watch being fitted with a Tiffany dial it would have been a different story.

[1675-David]

If Tiffany could make a buck by issuing "Extract From The Archive" certs like Omega I'm sure they would. If they have the sales records it should be a fairly simple process. My feeling is that the Tiffany archive is not reliable enough to offer this service but if Phillips call they are willing to have a look for a bit ticket item. After all it's a "Tiffany & Co Archives Research Certificate" certificate shown here. "Research" means just that. You've got to pay someone to do the research without the guarantee of a favorable outcome

[andresrrcf]

Originally Posted by joli160

Which you still don’t have....

Your dial is Rolex original but not necessarily Tiffany original.
Now if the RSC made reference of your watch being fitted with a Tiffany dial it would have been a different story.

If that makes you happy all the best...my dial ‘is not necessarily Tiffany’ And based on that assumption, Rolex is now working on ‘altered watches’

Well, I have a service warranty for a sub, with a dial that ‘is not necessarily Tiffany Original” the liability on Rolex...thanks for the legal advice

[GoingPlaces]

Originally Posted by andresrrcf

If that makes you happy all the best...my dial ‘is not necessarily Tiffany’ And based on that assumption, Rolex is now working on ‘altered watches’

Well, I have a service warranty for a sub, with a dial that ‘is not necessarily Tiffany Original” the liability on Rolex...thanks for the legal advice

Unfortunately your dial cannot be certified original for that watch. Rolex has no way of knowing if that dial was added at a later time. All you have is an authentic watch with authentic parts. Without the t certificate that ties the serial number to that specific watch it’s no different than all the other t stamp watches without papers. Which there are plenty of.


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[Pongster]

Who does the stamping? Tiffany or Rolex?

[andresrrcf]

Originally Posted by GoingPlaces

Unfortunately your dial cannot be certified original for that watch. Rolex has no way of knowing if that dial was added at a later time. All you have is an authentic watch with authentic parts. Without the t certificate that ties the serial number to that specific watch it’s no different than all the other t stamp watches without papers. Which there are plenty of.


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👍 didn’t know this forum was full of Rolex Employees...wasting already too much time on here...I’m out 🤙

[harry in montreal]

But if you know that Rolex shipped the watches to Tiffany and they added a logo, I don’t know why you are disappointed at everyone’s view of your opinion. How could rolex surmise that the printing genuinely came from one of their retailers?

Out of curiousity, did you pay a premium for your sub before you had Rolex do the overhaul?

[77T]

Originally Posted by GoingPlaces

I was told there was no way for them to authenticate. I inherited my fathers DJ and thought we lost the paperwork. A few years later my mother found the certificate with the T stamp on it so all good there. Only the box is missing. I was always told without the certificate it's a no-go.



Not sure how the above Daytona can be certified, would love to find out.

Glad the original paperwork for your Dad’s watch was eventually found.

Now on authentication, Tiffany will certify anything they sold prior to 1995, including stamped Watches.

Phillips as agent, or as historian, ponies up the $1K and gets certificate.

https://www.tiffany.com/faq/archive-...research-fees/


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[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by andresrrcf

👍 didn’t know this forum was full of Rolex Employees...wasting already too much time on here...I’m out 🤙

If it WAS full of Rolex employees would it be a waste of your time?
You’re on a forum of Rolex collectors and enthusiasts. What did you expect, every comment to align with yours and support your statements?
The replies by GoingPlaces are totally valid and worth considering. You’re upset because they don’t support your belief? Sorry if we’re not all in agreement with you, but that’s not the duty of this forum.

[GoingPlaces]

Originally Posted by 77T

Glad the original paperwork for your Dad’s watch was eventually found.

Now on authentication, Tiffany will certify anything they sold prior to 1995, including stamped Watches.

Phillips as agent, or as historian, ponies up the $1K and gets certificate.

https://www.tiffany.com/faq/archive-...research-fees/


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Very interesting, great to know. Definitely worth it IMO.

To add, this would be helpful to those that currently own and want to certify. Based on the fee and wait time (6+mos) most people wont use this service.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by 77T

Glad the original paperwork for your Dad’s watch was eventually found.

Now on authentication, Tiffany will certify anything they sold prior to 1995, including stamped Watches.

Phillips as agent, or as historian, ponies up the $1K and gets certificate.

https://www.tiffany.com/faq/archive-...research-fees/


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Bingo! It's pricey at $1K, but definitely worth it ... assuming the watch being researched comes back genuine. Imagine paying the fee, waiting six months, and then getting a letter from Tiffany that said the the dial had a fake stamp. Ouch.

An official Tiffany archive paper confirming a vintage Rolex was originally sold by the retailer might not be as good as the original Rolex guarantee paper with Tiffany's name on it, but it's the next best thing. It would add a ton of money to the value of (real) Tiffany-branded Rolexes that lacked the original Rolex paperwork.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by 77T

Glad the original paperwork for your Dad’s watch was eventually found.

Now on authentication, Tiffany will certify anything they sold prior to 1995, including stamped Watches.

Phillips as agent, or as historian, ponies up the $1K and gets certificate.

https://www.tiffany.com/faq/archive-...research-fees/


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Very interesting information Paul ... thank you for sharing this with us

[330ci]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

But if you know that Rolex shipped the watches to Tiffany and they added a logo, I don’t know why you are disappointed at everyone’s view of your opinion. How could rolex surmise that the printing genuinely came from one of their retailers?

Out of curiousity, did you pay a premium for your sub before you had Rolex do the overhaul?

Rolex knows what went where and when. If there was a problem with it, it would be addressed. I imagine if it wasn’t they’d refuse service unless the dial was replaced like any other genuine refinished Rolex dial.


Seems a bit ridiculous to expect Rolex to get rid of all aftermarket or altered parts then just leave some Tiffany dial because they’re incapable of authenticating it.

[joli160]

Originally Posted by 330ci

Rolex knows what went where and when. If there was a problem with it, it would be addressed. I imagine if it wasn’t they’d refuse service unless the dial was replaced like any other genuine refinished Rolex dial.

Adding a T stamp does not equal not original Rolex nor refinished.
Believe what you want but it doesn’t work like you think.

[GoingPlaces]

Originally Posted by 330ci

Rolex knows what went where and when. If there was a problem with it, it would be addressed. I imagine if it wasn’t they’d refuse service unless the dial was replaced like any other genuine refinished Rolex dial.


Seems a bit ridiculous to expect Rolex to get rid of all aftermarket or altered parts then just leave some Tiffany dial because they’re incapable of authenticating it.

Think about how many millions of watches Rolex has produced since they ended the relationship. Without proper paperwork from Tiffany's, there is no authenticity that the watch and dial were always one.

Originally Posted by joli160

Adding a T stamp does not equal not original Rolex nor refinished.
Believe what you want but it doesn’t work like you think.

100%

[Wigwag]

Originally Posted by joli160

Believe what you want but it doesn’t work like you think.

Erm, yes it does.

Rolex USA hold records of what serial numbers were supplied by Tiffany.

I suggest you apologize to andresrrcf

[Wigwag]

Originally Posted by GoingPlaces

Rolex has no way of knowing if that dial was added at a later time

You're right.

I guess someone could have removed the original Tiffany dial that Rolex know would have been fitted to the watch, and later installed a genuine dial with fake Tiffany printing. It does seem far-fetched to me, but I guess it would suit the agenda of yourself and joli160

[330ci]

Originally Posted by joli160

Adding a T stamp does not equal not original Rolex nor refinished.
Believe what you want but it doesn’t work like you think.

Rolex doesn’t allow modified parts. If someone unauthorized to add this text did so, it would not be leaving RSC with it.
Try sending in a 6694 with a pot leaf dial or a Mickey Mouse 1601, all modified original dials that I guarantee Rolex would require to change prior to them servicing