phillips auction results!?

[dchang81]

i know auctions don't make sense but today's phillips auction seems insane. a regular chronometre souverain but #1 serial for 160k? a roger smith for half a mil??? 5712g for 100k. debethune and even cartier for big money. never would have thought a 55k grand seiko would go for 80k crazy that the 3700 went for "only" 113k. i registered to bid but didn't bother figuring it'd be nuts which it ended up being.

[Nsane]

As I said elsewhere, I agree that this Phillips auction was crazy.
However, there are always pieces that slip through at good prices...:
A. Lange & Söhne Langematik Anniversary, 302.025, at 52k CHF
A. Lange & Söhne Langematik Big Date, 308.027, at 18k CHF
Rolex Smurf, 40k CHF

As you mentioned, the 3700 at 113k was a pretty decent deal.

Next week has big auctions at Christie's and Sotheby's. A lot of "heavy" pieces...minute repeaters...limited series FPJ ....38mm FPJ....will be interesting to see if there is an appetite for all of them.

[GreenLantern]

Money laundering.

[Gravity]

A lot of lazy insanity when countless pieces were available for 15-35% less from reputable dealers. Buyer's premium and the CHF conversion hit really killed most anything that did seem to be a deal. Never understood this type of acquiring, unless it is something truly impossible to find.

[RolexSimon]

I think Green Lantern has a point!!

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by Gravity

A lot of lazy insanity when countless pieces were available for 15-35% less from reputable dealers. Buyer's premium and the CHF conversion hit really killed most anything that did seem to be a deal. Never understood this type of acquiring, unless it is something truly impossible to find.

Agreed.

For me, auctions only make sense for vintage watches.

New, still in-production, or just barely out-of-production pieces? Makes no sense to me. Lots of other grey dealers with the same, if not better condition, pieces available for less.

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by Gravity

A lot of lazy insanity when countless pieces were available for 15-35% less from reputable dealers. Buyer's premium and the CHF conversion hit really killed most anything that did seem to be a deal. Never understood this type of acquiring, unless it is something truly impossible to find.

I don't get it at all either. Another poster here a while ago pointed out some of it is just (really rich) dudes bored, which I can sort of believe but I don't get how many of those people are really floating around.

Most of the investors in my firm are worth 8 - 9 figures and would never do something this stupid.

[sgwatchguy]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

Money laundering.

How does it work? Genuinely curious. I agree there’s more here than rich bored / idiots on the other side of those phones.

Auction after auction ... surely there can’t be so many stupid people. Fishy.

[Gibraltar]

Originally Posted by sgwatchguy

How does it work? Genuinely curious. I agree there’s more here than rich bored / idiots on the other side of those phones.

Auction after auction ... surely there can’t be so many stupid people. Fishy.

I'm not expert, but this is how it could work:
1. Buy a watch with $x ill-gotten funds
2. Put it up for auction, provenance is fine with the retailer receipt, etc
3. Plant at least two associates in the auction to bit up the price to say 3x and pay with more ill-gotten funds
4. You recieve 3x funds which are now clean, showing as proceeds from an auction sale and still own the watch.

[sgwatchguy]

Originally Posted by Gibraltar

I'm not expert, but this is how it could work:
1. Buy a watch with $x ill-gotten funds
2. Put it up for auction, provenance is fine with the retailer receipt, etc
3. Plant at least two associates in the auction to bit up the price to say 3x and pay with more ill-gotten funds
4. You recieve 3x funds which are now clean, showing as proceeds from an auction sale and still own the watch.

Thanks. Theoretically that could work, I’m assuming the “buyer” is an offshore company, for big $ lots at least.

The cheapest watch on offer was a Ming. That sold for > 13k franc / SGD19k before premium and tax. There are the same watches for sale here in Singapore for 1/3 that price that haven’t sold for months. Seeing what happens at auctions I’m sure the majority of watches are like these Mings, available for far less but being sold at ridiculous premiums by Phillips.

[bondtoys]

Originally Posted by Gibraltar

I'm not expert, but this is how it could work:
1. Buy a watch with $x ill-gotten funds
2. Put it up for auction, provenance is fine with the retailer receipt, etc
3. Plant at least two associates in the auction to bit up the price to say 3x and pay with more ill-gotten funds
4. You recieve 3x funds which are now clean, showing as proceeds from an auction sale and still own the watch.

Problem with that plan is, that 35% of the money lands in Phillips‘ pockets plus tax.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by Gibraltar

I'm not expert, but this is how it could work:
1. Buy a watch with $x ill-gotten funds
2. Put it up for auction, provenance is fine with the retailer receipt, etc
3. Plant at least two associates in the auction to bit up the price to say 3x and pay with more ill-gotten funds
4. You recieve 3x funds which are now clean, showing as proceeds from an auction sale and still own the watch.

Auction houses are not stupid.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Auction houses are not stupid.

Are they complicit?

[kunlun]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Are they complicit?

Look how they respond to stolen watches auctioned and you have your answer.

They are in the side of the thief.

[dchang81]

yea i get that whole angle been like that forever. just when i think things can't get any crazier it does.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Are they complicit?

They are not complicit in anything, there is a constant vigil for money laundering activity.

Originally Posted by kunlun

Look how they respond to stolen watches auctioned and you have your answer.

They are in the side of the thief.

Things are rarely black and white. Stolen goods which are sold and then subsequently bought at some future date in good faith are viewed differently by different legal systems around the world, some recognise the original owner as having sole legal title while others recognise the innocent purchaser as having legal title - auction houses operate across many geographic boundaries and are simply unable to be judge and jury where their client has purchased in good faith. In many cases despite goods being sold/withdrawn from sale once they found to be stolen the auction house simply has no option but to return them to their client and inform them of their findings.

[watchlovr]

Originally Posted by Gibraltar

I'm not expert, but this is how it could work:
1. Buy a watch with $x ill-gotten funds
2. Put it up for auction, provenance is fine with the retailer receipt, etc
3. Plant at least two associates in the auction to bit up the price to say 3x and pay with more ill-gotten funds
4. You recieve 3x funds which are now clean, showing as proceeds from an auction sale and still own the watch.

Ridiculous idea.
Everything is not a conspiracy you know.