Buying from a grey was actually a very pleasant experience

[fcracer]

Before I share my experience, I should say that I hate paying or benefiting from things that sell for more than MSRP. In 2007, I factory ordered a 997 GT3. When I ordered the car, the market was down and the dealer was having a hard time moving cars. They even had one in stock, but it didn't have the options I wanted.

I factory ordered the car in March exactly how I wanted it. It took a while to get built, and when the car arrived in August, things had changed dramatically and people were willing to pay a premium for those cars. The dealer offered me $20K more than what I paid to immediately sell the car to another client, but I refused.

In 2012, I bought a Sub C at an 18% discount in Toronto. In 2013, I bought a DateJust for my partner with an 18% discount. In 2016, I picked up another DateJust (for my father), this time with a 20% discount because it was a 36MM model that wasn't selling. At the same time, I put my name on the list for a Daytona Ceramic.

Fast forward to 2020 and I was still nowhere on the Daytona list. Worse, my sales associate was laid off due to COVID-19 and the AD said that they are no longer keeping lists for the Daytona since it just irritates clients when they can't get them. Furthermore, my partner wanted to get a GMT BatGirl and also wasn't getting anywhere with ADs.

Given the discounts we had received in the past from our Rolex AD purchases, we thought it fair to give greys a try and see how it goes. We're in Hong Kong so we went to two grey dealers and picked up a "new with stickers and new warranty card" Black Ceramic Daytona and GMT BatGirl.

The purchasing experience from these two grey dealers I have to say was better than my AD experience! The knowledge and passion of the owners and their staff was exceptional. The shop I bought the Daytona from was especially considerate and spent a lot of time sizing the bracelet to fit my wrist perfectly.

While I would still prefer to be able to walk into an AD and buy the product at MSRP, I will admit that I've already forgotten about the premium I paid for this watch. There is a reason I wanted the Daytona at this moment in time (personal reasons) and the markup was worth it for me to match the timing.

I know that people will accuse me of feeding the beast, and I deserve their wrath, but I buy watches to match certain life moments, and this life moment will not come back again. Now, I have my Daytona (which I will never sell) and I have the life moment memory to go with it. And my partner also now has a gorgeous BatGirl (wow, what a watch!).

[scooba]

Very pleased it works for you , As you mention some one will suggest otherwise but it is a needs must to get what you want and if you can afford it well done

[fooey]

Makes sense if u weren't getting anywhere with your AD, enjoy those great watches and good health.
Any chance of a picture of that car?

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[TimeAZ]

Congrats on your new additions and glad you had a satisfying experience! Indeed, the "actual distributors" (as I like to think of them) hardly disappoint. Now you can enjoy your Daytona and form memories with it while you are still alive and kicking, and your partner gets a nice GMT to boot!

[fcracer]

Originally Posted by fooey

Makes sense if u weren't getting anywhere with your AD, enjoy those great watches and good health.
Any chance of a picture of that car?

Thank you. Unfortunately, because I'm a newbie on this forum, I can't post links to the pictures until I hit 10 posts. I'll try and PM the links to you.

Fun story about the car. Back in 2010, a classmate and I decided to make a video that we hoped would hit 15,000 views. We produced a video of her (she was the CEO of a Canadian financial firm at the time) sitting passenger in the car as I tried for a hot lap at Cayuga Raceway in Ontario.

The video went viral almost immediately and has now been watched more than 4 million times. This caught Porsche's attention and they reached out to obtain the rights to show the video at their customer centre in Germany. We worked out an agreement where the money Porsche provided was donated to the Make a Wish Foundation.

You can search for the video on YouTube by looking for "fcracer88 GT3". It should be the first video that pops up. My GT3 is a bit like the Submariner for most of us, it's something that I have an emotional connection with and will never sell.

[Podmornica]

Great reminder on how the market is cycling. With the next recession and when most instagram influencers move to something else the majority of SS models will be available again. In the meantime most of the buyers developed a brand fatigue as they were treated poorly by their AD. Not sure how all this will eventually turn out for the Rolex. It seems amazing at this point when there's a demand, and it appears from this point in time it will last forever, but once all the euphoria dies down it could be worse than before all this madness for the Rolex.

[Ihatecheese]

I bought my rolexes from non ADs. Both times they were lovely and helpful. This was before the silliness with the misplaced 'investment' angles and Instagram popularity.

[Henrimontgomery]

I didn’t find buying grey a good experience.

When posting on reddit WTB, they would ask “what’s your budget” without hello or anything.
Short answers all the time, no social graces, and just poor client relationship management. This is valid for multiples forums across the web.

In my opinion, people saying “I had a great experience” are textbook Stockholm syndrome victims. “I’m happy I’ve been robbed”.

[jimcarver]

I actually bought grey in Japan back in early 2015 out of choice, I could have got from an AD for a couple of hundred more but I practically had to beg them for it. This was before it all went crazy and that became the norm, but I just didn't like the role reversal of being the customer spending thousands of dollars (well hundreds of thousands of yen) and also being made to feel like they were the one doing me a favour.

Glad you got the watch you wanted and had a good experience.

[eonflux]

Congrats on the new watches!!

Sure, paying over MSRP rubs everyone the wrong way, but what is the value in enjoying a watch (and the related memories) for a few years that would have been spent languishing on AD waitlists? That value certainly isn't zero.

[dmash]

While I wholly disagree with spending so much over list, the point I agree with you on is greys being far more knowledgeable than ADs about their product. Some SAs at Rolex locations can’t be bothered to know anything about the piece other than the price.

[ThatSubGuy]

Originally Posted by Henrimontgomery

I didn’t find buying grey a good experience.

When posting on reddit WTB, they would ask “what’s your budget” without hello or anything.
Short answers all the time, no social graces, and just poor client relationship management. This is valid for multiples forums across the web.

In my opinion, people saying “I had a great experience” are textbook Stockholm syndrome victims. “I’m happy I’ve been robbed”.

So true.

That even describes 90% of the sellers on Chrono24 which I've dealt with.

But let's be honest, most grey-market dealers simply went straight from selling used cars to luxury watches.

Just a sleazy bunch of characters IMO. I get an incredible bad vibe watching interactions on Youtube with grey market dealers.

[WatchEater666]

I never had any issues buying from greys. Always mooth and 0 bullshit.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by fcracer

Thank you. Unfortunately, because I'm a newbie on this forum, I can't post links to the pictures until I hit 10 posts. I'll try and PM the links to you.

Fun story about the car. Back in 2010, a classmate and I decided to make a video that we hoped would hit 15,000 views. We produced a video of her (she was the CEO of a Canadian financial firm at the time) sitting passenger in the car as I tried for a hot lap at Cayuga Raceway in Ontario.

The video went viral almost immediately and has now been watched more than 4 million times. This caught Porsche's attention and they reached out to obtain the rights to show the video at their customer centre in Germany. We worked out an agreement where the money Porsche provided was donated to the Make a Wish Foundation.

You can search for the video on YouTube by looking for "fcracer88 GT3". It should be the first video that pops up. My GT3 is a bit like the Submariner for most of us, it's something that I have an emotional connection with and will never sell.

Anyone can post pictures just click advanced button by reply box/ scroll down Additional Options/manage attachments/click/then upload picture from your PC/just make sure file and picture size complies to forum rules its very easy to do.

[NYFatboy99]

I think it's a matter of choice and there's no saying how it'll go when buying from a grey seller.

I've had good experiences in the past and I'm sure some other person will think otherwise. Just luck...

[fcracer]

Originally Posted by fooey

Any chance of a picture of that car?

Thanks to the Moderator's help, I realize I can upload images. Here you go:

When the car was new:
farfargt3low-3.jpg

With the track setup:
wax-1.jpg

On Michelin slicks at Shannonville Raceway:
slicks-1.jpg

911's always have great backsides:
GT3-2012-4.jpg

Only sad thing is that I'm now living across the world from where the car is so I only get to drive it once a year at most. When I was still in North America, I used to take the car to the track pretty much every weekend except when there was snow on the ground. It's a really, really fantastic car.

[fcracer]

Originally Posted by Podmornica

Great reminder on how the market is cycling. With the next recession and when most instagram influencers move to something else the majority of SS models will be available again. In the meantime most of the buyers developed a brand fatigue as they were treated poorly by their AD. Not sure how all this will eventually turn out for the Rolex. It seems amazing at this point when there's a demand, and it appears from this point in time it will last forever, but once all the euphoria dies down it could be worse than before all this madness for the Rolex.

If my equities purchasing history is any indication, the fact that I finally gave in after waiting four years and went grey, is surely an indication that we've hit the market peak. We should anticipate a precipitous drop to MSRP or below within six months

[joli160]

You did the right thing. Buy what and when you want. My own experience with several grey sellers has been a pleasure as well.
Huge congrats

[Lozzer]

Great post. I totally agree with you, buying a watch to celebrate/commemorate a significant event/time of our lives is really special. I bought my first significant watch - an Omega - for my 21st birthday..... many years ago. I still have it and will never sell it.
Love your GT3, shame you aren’t able to drive it so much now. 😢😢😢

[Harry-57]

Originally Posted by fcracer

I know that people will accuse me of feeding the beast, and I deserve their wrath

No you don't. Your life, your money, your choice your watch. If you were buying a make that sells outside the dealer network for under MSRP, would the same apply?

I have bought two of my Rolex watches from well established grey dealers and would not hesitate to use them again or recommend them for their service, professionalism, love of horology and overall conduct. I like my AD. Their carpets are thicker and they did good coffee before COVID-19 restrictions. They are friendly and always up for a chat. But if they don't have what I want and I can't get on a list, there are good alternatives - at higher prices if I'm looking for a Rolex.

Congratulations.

[chinaski]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

I never had any issues buying from greys. Always mooth and 0 bullshit.

Of the three higher end watches that I own, all were purchased from reputable greys and the experience was stellar. One in particular, that I will name that was above and beyond, is Watchbox. THAT is a really good outfit.

Local Rolex AD treated me like a second class citizen. EFF THEM.

[Ollie1982]

Seeing as you were happy to share the % discount of the watches you purchased from your AD, for balance and perspective it would be great to know what % you paid over retail for your grey markey purchases? Shame your loyalty and previous good custom wasn't rewarded at your AD when the time came to purchase some of the 'hotter' models.

Great car BTW!

[Chester01]

Lol, better be a great experience. They got the watch at presumably at MSRP and sold the watch at a 50-100% mark up. They should be smiling, giving Champaign, free hats lol. They have better profit margins than an AD, that’s for sure.

[ttomczak]

Great YouTube video, and your right she is a good sport...

As to Greys, I have been buying from David and Thanh for close to 11 years and my local AD for close to 20, all three with excellent experiences.

Congrats on getting what you wanted.

[travisb]

Congratulations to you both! Now you can enjoy them sooner rather than who knows when.

[1William]

Nice post and I totally get the buying from Grey's. My experience on TRF with several of the big sellers rivals that of any AD I have ever dealt with and if I am honest, is better. Cool car, great watches and you did as you wanted with your money. Good combination. Enjoy.

[KMalone]

you lost me at . . . "my partner' . . .

[sgwatchguy]

Congrats! Enjoy the new timepieces.

For whatever reason, YouTube and Google search for your videos draws a complete blank here in Singapore.

[G.D.BeanCounter]

Congrats, and thanks for sharing your story.

[fcracer]

Originally Posted by KMalone

you lost me at . . . "my partner' . . .

Why? It’s 2020, not 1969...