Beware Buyer Rolex1970 (Pascal Gosler)

[dmacintyre]

Against my better judgement I agreed to sell a watch to new user Rolex1970, real name given Pascal Gosler of Switzerland. Email / Paypal address pasci.seven@bluewin.ch

I specifically told him that as it was an overseas transaction to new user I would require a confirmed Paypal shipping address and verified Paypal account. I also stated that my price was net of fees so to either send a Paypal gift or add the cost of fees.

The first payment came through as a regular Paypal without fees added and he had not confirmed his address or verified his account. I immediately refunded his money and asked him to resend with fees and from a verified / confirmed Paypal account. Her replied that he would be out of town for a couple of days and asked if I could hold it for him as he would resend payment when he got back. I stupidly agreed.

I received a cheery email from him this morning saying he had changed his mind and decided to buy a different watch. I turned down an interested party over the weekend as I a man of my word and lost that sale because of him.

I initially thought he was backing out after a gentleman's agreement but it is now clear this was an attempt to scam me with an unconfirmed and unverified Paypal account. I checked out his address and it translates as a Post Office Box so I am convinced this is not just a regular flake situation (not that backing out of a deal is acceptable either).

Watch out for this buyer - as he just registered he may register a new account to avoid detection. Rolex1970 / Pascal Gosler / Swiss Paypal shipping address has "Postfach" in it (it means P.O. Box)

David

[Rolex116520]

Hi ,
Having a Swiss parent does not mean that I can judge this man as to his honesty .
What I do know is that Paypal in Europe is not functioning the exact same way as in the US .
In Europe we confirm our accounts via a credit card transaction with Paypal itself that will provide a control number on our bank or credit card statement . We also can link our bank account number with the paypal account .
Once we "move" a certain amount paypal will ask us to provide proof of identity , address etc...
If this person has not confirmed his account he would be able to pay high amounts via Paypal and if he would have to pay over 1500 euro ( 2000usd ) he'd certainly would have had to go through the rather slow verification process of Paypal by providing ID with picture , proof of address by utility bills and recent statement of his linked credit card .
Myself I hold a fully verified paypal account since 2005 and is linked to my Ebay account , I regulary buy items from the US and I still get questions as to that "confirmed shipping address " from the sellers .
You will see that these paypal transaction will state " outside the US " and usually " no verified shipping address " .

I understand that there may be other details setting alarm bells off with you and this deal . If I do not feel comfortable with something in a deal like this , I always walk away .

Also "postfach" is usually a P.O. box , but the use of these is fairly common in Switzerland and are very well controlled .... as most things there .

[dmacintyre]

I appreciate the input.

I am from Europe and it is where I opened my Paypal account. I was able to confirm and verify my account without any issues and I didn't have to send any ID (it was done with a credit to my bank account as you describe). Not sure why it would be too onerous now.

Anyway, it still leaves the question of sending the wrong amount then pulling out when I insisted upon a verified / confirmed account after asking me to hold it for him. That plus the P.O. Box and low post count raised enough questions with me to flag up this user to the forum.

At the very least it is extremely bad form to say "I'll take it" then decide later not to follow through - his nice way of letting me down gently was that he "decided to buy a 70s Sub instead"

D.

[Rolex116520]

Do not get me wrong : I condone the fact he did not honor his engagement towards you .
I was only trying to say that the fact his address was not "confirmed" and he uses a "Postfach" to me does not constitute enough proof that he was trying anything more then that .
I can assure you that in Europe all Paypal account holders once they receive more then 1500 euro a year or 2500 euro of activity are subjected to those verifications . All in the name of " money laundering " and of course tax .

[bodybump]

Hi David...this happens all the time...as for my experience i learned not to count the egg before its hatched...sometimes a customer will ask me to hold a watch for more than 2 weeks and end up not taking it...International transaction can be smooth and can be bad..some people can change their mind because they dont want to take that risk of sending and paying through paypal...more so having themselves verified...i know its frustrating..you will need a lot of patience when it comes to selling watches...

[dmacintyre]

Originally Posted by bodybump

Hi David...this happens all the time...as for my experience i learned not to count the egg before its hatched...sometimes a customer will ask me to hold a watch for more than 2 weeks and end up not taking it...International transaction can be smooth and can be bad..some people can change their mind because they dont want to take that risk of sending and paying through paypal...more so having themselves verified...i know its frustrating..you will need a lot of patience when it comes to selling watches...

I hear you. I guess I made the mistake of applying my own ethics to someone else. I have on several occasions changed my mind about something I firmly committed to buying. I went through with the purchase anyway and simply relisted the items for sale myself.

[gimpex]

I can also say that in Europe , the only account verification that PayPal does is the credit card - charge 1 euro , with a ref number which you must key on website. No other address verification can be done.

I buy a bit on ebay , and some US sellers ask for verified address so I asked PayPal - not in Europe - yet. I think right now it says the account is "confirmed"

[Rolex116520]

What the member above stated is correct . Paypal charges you 1.5 euro on your card . A couple of days later this debit will appear on your statement along with a 4 digit code . You need to feed that in to become verified .
Paypal also verifies your bank account you provide when you care to withdraw from your Paypal account . On that occasion Paypal will actually wire 2 very small amounts on your bank account . There again you have to feed both amounts in om your Paypal account to confirm your bank account that will allow you to withdraw from Paypal or feed the Paypal account .
When you reach the limits ( 1500 euro receiving and or 1000 euro paying ) a year , Paypal will ask you to provide the documents I mentioned in a earlier post .

Here I'm just speculating : But maybe it was the buyer that thought something funny was going on when you returned his payment and asking fir another account .
As neutral Swiss he may have preferred to tell you that he changed his mind instead of insinuating that something iffy was going on .
Better safe then sorry , maybe both parties thought the same thing .

It would be nice if this member came on the forum and gave his point of view .
Main thing is that no real damage is done and as Oscar explained it is not that easy .

Paypal is an excellent tool for smalish transactions , I had one very stressful one when selling a laptop and the value pushed me over the the limit and it took paypal over 5 days to accept the documents I provided so they would remove the restriction only account .
The buyer had by then already received the laptop and left a conform evaluation .

[newmedia]

always call paypal when in debt , they will tell if the transaction qualifies under buyer and seller protections.
Have the watch packaged by shipping company such as UPS store and get it insured.
keep all the records of phone calls and emails.
Buyers backing out is no big deal , whom ever pays first gets the watch unless you have previously done business with the person with out any problems.

[dmacintyre]

@Rolex116520 : I didn't ask for a different account, I asked him to confirm his own account. I do not accept that I did anything to raise his suspicions about me. I have 100% feedback on eBay with 434 transactions and references on several websites. When he didn't do the first payment correctly I immediately refunded him and asked to send the correct payment by the agreed (and recommended by Paypal) method. Fact is he didn't have a confirmed address OR verified account, almost no posts here, asked me to send to a post office box and then pulled out after asking me to hold it for him. Speculate all you want about what his reasons might be but I wouldn't touch this guy with a bargepole.

@newmedia : it might be no big deal to you but welching on an agreement is pretty low and it lost me another sale while I held it for him. I have been buying and selling online for years and have had my fair share of welchers - I just thought the forum should know this guy's word isn't his bond in case anyone else agrees to hold something for him.

I'll either sell or keep the watch, I'm fine either way, but welching / scamming people like this spoil it for the good guys and I posted in here to warn others.

[Rolex116520]

Originally Posted by dmacintyre

@Rolex116520 : I didn't ask for a different account, I asked him to confirm his own account. I do not accept that I did anything to raise his suspicions about me. I have 100% feedback on eBay with 434 transactions and references on several websites. When he didn't do the first payment correctly I immediately refunded him and asked to send the correct payment by the agreed (and recommended by Paypal) method. Fact is he didn't have a confirmed address OR verified account, almost no posts here, asked me to send to a post office box and then pulled out after asking me to hold it for him. Speculate all you want about what his reasons might be but I wouldn't touch this guy with a bargepole.

.

David , last thing I wanted to do was trying to say that you did anything wrong : I did state earlier that I condone the fact he pulled out of an agreement and did not respond properly to your request.
You and only You dealt with this person and I would most likely have done the same thing as you did .
You will have assed his behavior better then anyone else here and deducted that this was not the man to deal with under these circumstances .
Dealing with a newbie is always a tricky thing , on Ebay or any other web based transaction .
What I can not understand is how he could make a payment equivalent of a Rolex watch via an European based Paypal account when the account is not properly verified by them.
Could there be a loophole in their system ? If so that would be matter of concern too.

Paul

[dmacintyre]

Originally Posted by Rolex116520

David , last thing I wanted to do was trying to say that you did anything wrong

No worries Paul.

D.

[Hankotex]

Paul,
Perhaps your use of "condone," rather than "condemn" is confusing. If you condone something, you tolerate or overlook it.

[Rolex1970]

1. I not Speak very good English my Friends.
2. Payment as a "Gift" or "whitout Fees" is not Possible in my Account.
3. I offered the Paypal Fees for Refund...
4. I Pay Instant, subito.
5. An Adress in Switzerland is not the same Adress in US, UK, etc etc. The Street & Postbox is not unusual....
6. Verified and not Verified..i think iam verified.
7. @Mods & Seller: Sorry for Missunderstanding...Thx!

[rallepeng]

wow.. that must be very big misunderstanding.
pascal is good friend and neighbor directly from me.
a man, a word! that is pascal! so no issues heared about him before!

[Kokyuryoku]

Sad story for both parties. I do however, believe that the buyer always has the right to change his/her mind. That's the nature of business.

To the OP, I don't think it's a good idea to call people who change their minds welchers either. They are just unsure buyers. Also, nothing was stolen, nothing was lost. You still have your watch and can relist it, so I really don't see any trouble. Contact the person who was interested over the weekend and let them have it. Problem solved

[Kokyuryoku]

I just noticed this thread was started in February I should have read the dates first I wonder if the OP has sold that watch yet Let's hope he has

[Z-Sub]

Recently I was buying from a seller here on this forum. We agreed on the price and I confirmed I would buy from him.

A couple of hours later, I got an email from the seller stating he has a buyer who was willing to pay higher price and sold the watch to the later buyer.

It was frustrating for me as well.

BTW, Rolex1970 registered more than 2 years earlier than the OP and has more posts. What does the OP mean by a "new user"?

[car&watch]

Originally Posted by Kokyuryoku

Sad story for both parties. I do however, believe that the buyer always has the right to change his/her mind. That's the nature of business.

To the OP, I don't think it's a good idea to call people who change their minds welchers either. They are just unsure buyers. Also, nothing was stolen, nothing was lost. You still have your watch and can relist it, so I really don't see any trouble. Contact the person who was interested over the weekend and let them have it. Problem solved

I couldn't agree more! While I don't think it's particularly good form to back out of a deal, I don't think it makes someone a bad person, either. Take my wife for example. I can't tell you how many times she has been at the mall and bought a purse, an outfit, etc., only to bring it home, try it on, and change her mind and return it the next day! Does this make my wife a bad person?? I don't think so.

People are allowed to change their minds before they 100% complete the deal. If you don't feel like holding the watch for them, by all means, don't. Simply say "take as much time as you need, and if I still have the watch in two weeks, I will be more than happy to sell it to you!"


I think it is VERY, VERY bad form to start a post about a user, when the user actually has not done anything wrong! You still have your watch! Only make these types of claims when you know for SURE that you have been scammed. Otherwise, you run the risk of destroying a good man's reputation. That, my friend, is bad form IMHO.