Newbie 1016 question

[analogjack]

New guy checking in. I'm not a collector, and I'm just starting to get into your acronyms, but I'm glad to have found this forum. I'm the original owner of an Explorer 1016 purchased at the Rolex dealer in Singapore during R&R in mid-1968.  It was worn daily for the majority of 300+ missions in Vietnam and survived another eight years of flying various Navy aircraft -- including greasy pre-flight inspections and whacks on canopy rims. 
In about 1980 it stopped and was retired to a box in a drawer because it was assumed to be not worth the cost of servicing.  And there the Explorer sat until my 80th birthday last October when I was inspired to resurrect the watch and get it back online.
The first service of the Explorer's life was performed through Radcliffe Jewelers near Baltimore this past fall, and it now sits on my wrist again with a $15 rubber watchband holding it in place, looking very much at home. (There is a long, unfortunate story about how its bracelet became separated from the Explorer, but it's long gone and not recoverable.)  My objective is to get this watch as close to its original state as possible with a period-correct band, and to wear it every day until my own expiration date, when it will be passed on to one of my sons.  Research indicates that the original band was a 7836 (58 end clip)? -- or a 78360 (580 end clip)? Those look identical to my original bracelet.  Does it matter which one?  Are there any logical alternatives?  
For me, this is so much more than a "vintage" watch; it's part of my history, and it's a very personal artifact of my life.  And as I enter the "red zone" of my journey, I want to get this piece of history right, and ready to pass on as part of my legacy.  Any and all thoughts are most welcome.  Thanks.

[MrBlobby]

Bracelets for explorer
https://explorer1016.com/bracelet/

7206 rivet with 58 end links (EL) (non-expandable; 1960-1972)
6636 rivet with 58 EL (spring links; 1960-1972)
C&I rivet with unlabeled EL (non-expandable, for watches from the USA; 1960-1977)
7836 folded-link oyster with 280 EL (1967-198?)

Or

6251 jubilee bracelet with 50 end links (Hecho en Mexico can be seen)

A jubilee bracelet is likely to be cheaper.

On that website you’ll be able which dial variation you have. From your explanation I would suggest a gilt dial but it could be an early matte dial.

The forum would love to see a photo of your watch.

[CTech]

Firstly, welcome to the forum and congratulations on having such an interesting military career.

A watch purchased in 1968 in Singapore would almost certainly have had a Swiss made bracelet, so you could safely eliminate the US or Mexico made bracelets from consideration.

Of the list MrBlooby has supplied above, I'd be very surprised if the 6636 expandable rivet bracelet would have been on the watch originally, so that only leaves the 7206 rivet or the 7836 folded link as possible period correct Oyster bracelets.

This article from Hodinkee supplements MrBlobby's information:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/ro...l-perspectives

and they show a sideways view of the rivet, folded link and solid link bracelets on top of each other.

A watch bought in 1968 might have been made a couple of years earlier and so it could have been either just when the rivet bracelet was being discontinued or right at the beginning of the folded link bracelet being introduced.

Which bracelet you choose is really a matter of personal taste and how accurately you want to restore it to its previous configuration, and you will probably get conflicting opinions about the pros and cons of each type of bracelet.

In general, a lot of forum members recommend putting a solid link 78360 bracelet on vintage watches, because it is the most secure type, even though it is not period correct. They were introduced somewhere around 1975 so one couldn't have been on the watch when it was new, but could have been fitted later at a service.

The folded link bracelets rattle a bit more than the solid link bracelets and they do feel more flimsy, but they are perfectly serviceable (when in good condition) and suit the vintage look of a 1960s watch quite well.

Of the three options, I would go for a Swiss made folded link 7836, mainly because I like the feel of them, they don't look as old as the rivet bracelets and that type was probably on the watch when new. Others might have different favorite bracelets, but of course the final choice has to suit your preferences and budget.

[1675-David]

Welcome to the forum Jack! I don’t think I’m alone in saying I would love to see an image of your watch.

[TuRo]

Welcome. Pretty certain it would not be a 7836 bracelet.

Useful list here : 7206 the likelihood

https://rolexhaven.com/bracelets.html

[TuRo]

Sorry forgot to show my workings.

7836 quoted as from 67 in some publications, but my above link suggests 69.

Moreover, this link below a few of us state 67 is too early, which I agree with.

Checking my copious notes... last qtr 68 was the earliest clasp stamp I've seen, and a flurry of 1st Qtr 69 stamps.

Given timeframe to shop etc I'm suggesting from shop it's almost certainly a 7206 in mid 68.

Happy to be put right if anyone has 67 or early 68 stamped 7836 btw...

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=693252

Rgds Paul

[Dan S]

I'd suggest looking at photos of 7206 (rivet) bracelets to see if they jog your memory. The 7836 and 7206 might look similar at first glance, but the sides of the links look different.

A 78360 would be a correct modern replacement, but it has solid instead of folded links, so it's quite different, and you indicated that you wanted to make it period-correct.

As an FYI, a 7206 in good condition is probably going to cost you in the neighborhood of $2500. A 7836 would be more like $1k. Both are often found in poor condition and need to be restored, which can be done for about $500.

[analogjack]

First -- thanks, everyone, for not jumping on my initial typo -- 1916 instead of 1016. Sloppy.
Okay -- and thanks for all the responses! Fantastic forum for ideas and information. I've tried to get a picture of this Explorer, especially to try to get the color of the dial and markings accurately. (Was told by a couple of watch people that this had a great patina.) So, attached is about as good as I'm going to get with my phone on a tablecloth. But it's close to accurate.
As to the bracelet: as I understand it, a riveted band would not have screws in any of its links, but a solid band would probably have several links with screws to add or reduce the length of the band. If that's a correct read, then I'm about 95% certain that the original band was riveted and did not have screws in the edge of any links -- so I'm assuming it was a 7206, which -- again, if I'm reading all the information provided correctly -- means I had the least secure and most expensive-to-replace bracelet. Terrific! (It hasn't been mentioned, but I remember the Rolex crown trademark was proud of the surface of the clasp on the original and extended slightly beyond the end of the clasp. There was no secondary locking mechanism on this bracelet -- just the holding power of the closed clasp sides.)
Additionally, there is a very slight possibility -- getting slighter all the time as I continue to turn out dresser drawers -- that the one or two links I remember the dealer taking off the original bracelet are still tucked away somewhere in the house. I will continue to comb through my life's detritus in the back of drawers and boxes to see if (1) I remembered correctly that one or two links were removed by the dealer and (2) if I can find the little buggers.
So some decisions have to be made. Spending another $2500 or more for a 7206 bracelet is not a happy thought, but I did want to get this thing done right. A 7836 -- or even a 78360 -- might be a more practical and economical solution. Meanwhile, the $15 rubber band looks okay, and the watch is still beautiful. (I'd feel a little more confident in my decision if I had a better idea of the value of this watch as it stands.)
Thanks, again, for all the great responses. Hope this picture gives a realistic idea of the real deal.

[CTech]

It might help your decision about the type of bracelet to buy if the experts here had a bit more information about the watch.

The serial number engraved on the case between the 6 o'clock lugs and a photo of the inside of the case back showing the date code would be good.

The dial looks as if it is a Type 6 gilt non-chapter ring version and, if my non-expert opinion is correct, that would mean the watch was made a bit earlier than the purchase date, possibly in 1966.

If that is true, TuRo's view that this would have been fitted originally with a rivet bracelet is correct, regardless of any conflicting information about the date of introduction of the folded link bracelet.

You'll be able to find a lot of examples of circa 1966-67 Rolex 1016 gilt dial watches on websites such as bobswatches or Chrono24 to give you an idea of the market value of your watch, and that might help in deciding whether the cost of a period correct rivet bracelet is justified.

This is just one of the many listings, but it shows what your watch probably looked like with a rivet bracelet:

https://www.bobswatches.com/vintage-...iABEgIGtvD_BwE

[Dan S]

None of the folded link (e.g. 7836) or rivet (e.g. 7206) bracelets have any screws for adding or removing links.

[MrBlobby]

That looks like a really nice example.

As mentioned it looks like this dial:
https://explorer1016.com/gilt/non-chapter-ring/mark-6/

I say a 7206 or 6636 would be right and look great. Having said that it will look great on lots of different straps until you find the right bracelet.

[GST15]

I don't have much to add, except a big thank you for your service to our country!

[TuRo]

I've just realised you are probably even older than Dan, jP and me (the 'curmudgeon'istas'.... well I am anyway occasionally ;-), you need to stick around pls, to keep the modal age up - and yes a hearty salute for the previous undertakings ✓

[analogjack]

Thanks, TuRo -- I have every intention of sticking around for a while yet. Figuring I'm "vintage", myself. Got my start the same year as my first ship -- INTREPID in 1943. Full octogenarian-curmudgeon status.
Your Prime Minister's best quote applies -- "Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result." Cheers.

[analogjack]

The info from the jeweler's records: case serial number 587375, movement 1570, movement serial 960771. I'm not up to opening this watch, but I'll try to get the rest of the information soonest. (Note: there is a small white sticker on the side of the outer box for this watch, and it looks like it could be 1587375. There's also "1016 / a / b" on the tag; any significance to the "a / b"?)

[MrBlobby]

I wonder if they have that serial number correct. It sounds a little early for the dial.

If you remove the strap from the lugs at 6 o clock then you should see the serial number engraved on the case.

[CTech]

The serial number on the box (1587375) is probably the correct one and that would place the watch production date around 1967.

It's possible the numbers on the case have got a bit worn and the jeweler missed the first digit.

[MrBlobby]

I missed that! Yes 1.5 million serial sounds right.

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by analogjack

The info from the jeweler's records: case serial number 587375, movement 1570, movement serial 960771. I'm not up to opening this watch, but I'll try to get the rest of the information soonest. (Note: there is a small white sticker on the side of the outer box for this watch, and it looks like it could be 1587375. There's also "1016 / a / b" on the tag; any significance to the "a / b"?)

Watches of this era, eg 60/70s, often have a pricing gun stocker of ref no. / a / b or just the ref no. / b

(Nb - Also sometimes a little circular sticker to denote dial colour eg black, silver, white, blue, gold etc)

eg 1680 / b or 5513 / a / b or in your instance 1016 / a / b :

I believe the B stands for boîte (en carton, en bois)

Or box in English.

I do not know what the A stands for but it may be french/swiss term for paperwork eg the term 'Administratives' as the B is Boite /Box.

[analogjack]

Right. Everybody's right. Got the band off to confirm the case number is 1587375. Jeweler missed the "1". The little sticker on the outer box shows what could be a "1", but is not very clear. (I've also discovered, having checked out the pyramid boxes and outer boxes on eBay, that I shouldn't continue to store buttons and medals in them. Vintage cardboard -- who knew?) Thanks, all.

[dbhak22]

Very cool and beautiful 1016! What a great story as well. Thank you for your service, and thank you for sharing. Love these posts.

[XavierM]

Welcome,
Beautiful watch and what a career !
You’re in the right place to get the help you need.

Thanks for sharing your story :)

[Juhuatai]

Could the a be acier for steel? Just a guess