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Old 13 December 2018, 08:14 AM   #1
MikeyL
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1964 Gilt GMT query

Hi everyone,
I have been offered a very nice 1964 Gilt GMT with PCG, which is my grail watch that I've been searching for for some time but, before I pull the trigger I wanted to get your expert opinion on the condition of the movement (image attached). My only very small concern is that there seems to be some slight discolouring/darkening to some parts of the movement and I wanted to double check if I'm being overly pedantic or if it is showing some signs of rusting/deterioration. I appreciate the image could be better but it's all I have. I would be most grateful for your views.

Mike

P.S. I will try and send a bigger photo if it would help.
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File Type: jpg Gilt GMT.jpg (111.1 KB, 259 views)
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Old 13 December 2018, 08:18 AM   #2
roh123
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I would expect an earlier dial with a PCG and a 63 caseback. Is the serial below 1.0m?
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Old 13 December 2018, 08:51 AM   #3
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Should a PCG have an earlier movement with the prettier rotor? With a crown on it?
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Old 13 December 2018, 08:54 AM   #4
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Should a PCG have an earlier movement with the prettier rotor? With a crown on it?
No butterfly rotor that late.
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Old 13 December 2018, 08:56 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1665fan View Post
Should a PCG have an earlier movement with the prettier rotor? With a crown on it?
Yes.


And, as Roh mentioned, the dial is a later dial and not from the pointed crown guard era.
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Old 13 December 2018, 08:59 AM   #6
MikeyL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roh123 View Post
I would expect an earlier dial with a PCG and a 63 caseback. Is the serial below 1.0m?
No it's a 11XXXXX serial number which makes it a '64/65 model I believe albeit the case back says '63. So I think the dial is fine. But thanks for d checking that.
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Old 13 December 2018, 09:01 AM   #7
roh123
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Originally Posted by MikeyL View Post
No it's a 11XXXXX serial number which makes it a '64/65 model I believe albeit the case back says '63. So I think the dial is fine. But thanks for d checking that.
Much better. Will still be questioned by some but I’d accept it as it is one of the very last PCGs.
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Old 13 December 2018, 09:05 AM   #8
MikeyL
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Much better. Will still be questioned by some but I’d accept it as it is one of the very last PCGs.
Thanks Roh.... yes the GMT master website says that this serial number was right at the end of the PCG era so the dial (last of the gilts)/pcg combination does check out. I'm more interested if you think the movement looks okay/clean?
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Old 13 December 2018, 09:07 AM   #9
MikeyL
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Originally Posted by springer View Post
Yes.


And, as Roh mentioned, the dial is a later dial and not from the pointed crown guard era.
Thanks Springer...so the movement is incorrect then for this serial number?
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Old 13 December 2018, 09:09 AM   #10
roh123
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Originally Posted by MikeyL View Post
Thanks Roh.... yes the GMT master website says that this serial number was right at the end of the PCG era so the dial (last of the gilts)/pcg combination does check out. I'm more interested if you think the movement looks okay/clean?
I’m not a watchmaker. :)

Nothing turns be off seeing that but I will refrain to make recommendations on stuff I don’t know well.
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Old 13 December 2018, 09:13 AM   #11
MikeyL
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I’m not a watchmaker. :)

Nothing turns be off seeing that but I will refrain to make recommendations on stuff I don’t know well.
haha fair enough! Was just wondering about the slight discolouration in certain parts and whether that's just normal wear and tear and more serious signs of corrosion...

Anyway, thanks for your comments. :)
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Old 13 December 2018, 09:17 AM   #12
MikeyL
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Yes.


And, as Roh mentioned, the dial is a later dial and not from the pointed crown guard era.
Thanks Springer - so is the movement incorrect or is it actually correct for this (later) serial number? As I said in my previous post, PCGs were seen as late as 113XXXX serial number according to the GMT master website...but happy to be corrected!
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Old 13 December 2018, 10:49 AM   #13
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Thanks Springer - so is the movement incorrect or is it actually correct for this (later) serial number? As I said in my previous post, PCGs were seen as late as 113XXXX serial number according to the GMT master website...but happy to be corrected!
I would expect a 1560 movement with the butterfly rotor, but, I am not an expert on all these movements and the dates when they changed. I'm also uncertain what the serial number of this watch.
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Old 13 December 2018, 11:26 AM   #14
chows99
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If your concern is movement wise, should not be a big issue as most watchmaker can service it well.

What matters most in vintage are actually the dial and case which surprisingly, you didn't request assistance to vet.
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Old 13 December 2018, 11:47 AM   #15
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If it’s not original dial, movement, insert......
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Old 13 December 2018, 04:56 PM   #16
roh123
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Butterfly rotor stopped around 1962. At 1.1m this looks fine imho.
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Old 13 December 2018, 05:54 PM   #17
lee fowler
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My 1963 1.08m serial movement.
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Old 13 December 2018, 06:31 PM   #18
MikeyL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chows99 View Post
If your concern is movement wise, should not be a big issue as most watchmaker can service it well.

What matters most in vintage are actually the dial and case which surprisingly, you didn't request assistance to vet.
Thanks Chows.... I didn't want to bother folks with the dial/case/insert as it all looks correct and in good condition having read up and seen a few in person...the movements I have much less of a clue about!
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Old 13 December 2018, 06:32 PM   #19
MikeyL
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Originally Posted by roh123 View Post
Butterfly rotor stopped around 1962. At 1.1m this looks fine imho.
Thanks for your feedback Roh. Much appreciated.
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Old 13 December 2018, 06:34 PM   #20
MikeyL
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Originally Posted by lee fowler View Post
My 1963 1.08m serial movement.
Thanks for the picture Lee - ah I see the crown/butterfly difference now - well at least I've learned something important now about movements for gilts! And yes it is prettier!
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Old 13 December 2018, 06:41 PM   #21
MikeyL
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P.S. if anyone does want to comment on the look of this 1.13 series (1964) from the picture above please do! It's all I've got right now unfortunately. The case looks excellent and the insert also looks to be fat font/period correct and I'm assured the dial is likewise but I have still to see it up close...
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Old 13 December 2018, 07:06 PM   #22
MikeyL
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Originally Posted by MikeyL View Post
P.S. if anyone does want to comment on the look of this 1.13 series (1964) from the picture above please do! It's all I've got right now unfortunately. The case looks excellent and the insert also looks to be fat font/period correct and I'm assured the dial is likewise but I have still to see it up close...
Sorry correction - the serial number is 1.10 not 1.13 - which makes it 1964 on some guides and 1965 on another reputable one I've looked at. It is very late for PCG's admittedly but the GMT Master website does suggest it is possible until 1.13 serial numbers...

Mmh.. as you can probably tell I badly want a gilt 1675 (and ideally this one as it's here now and I've been looking for ages!) but it's a lot of money so I'm being very cautious!

Many thanks for all your help guys.

Mike.
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Old 14 December 2018, 12:42 AM   #23
joli160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyL View Post
P.S. if anyone does want to comment on the look of this 1.13 series (1964) from the picture above please do! It's all I've got right now unfortunately. The case looks excellent and the insert also looks to be fat font/period correct and I'm assured the dial is likewise but I have still to see it up close...
Can't contribute anything useful apart from that it looks beautiful
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Old 14 December 2018, 02:46 AM   #24
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At that serial number and PCG I would have expected a Non Chapter, Swiss only dial.
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Old 14 December 2018, 07:15 AM   #25
MikeyL
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Thanks - it is a beaut to look at for sure!
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Old 14 December 2018, 07:24 AM   #26
MikeyL
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At that serial number and PCG I would have expected a Non Chapter, Swiss only dial.
Thanks watchcrank - you could be right although there seems to be a lot of overlap of serial numbers for the non-chapter ring dials according to the GMT Master 1675 website I have been using to check through everything. I have now determined that the hands are early matte dial replacements...

If the watch was costing me a sane amount of money I wouldn't be doing so much triple checking on everything to be honest!

Anyway, thanks for your and everybody else's input.
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