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Old 15 December 2018, 08:10 PM   #1
MikeyL
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Beautiful Gilt 5512

Hi Folks,
I have been looking for a high quality gilt GMT or Sub for a while now (I posted pics and dets of a gilt GMT earlier this week and the feedback was really helpful so a big thank you!) and on my way to viewing the said GMT in person I popped into another dealer I had been speaking to about a great looking gilt 5512 last quarter '62 (engraved on inside of case) (pics attached) and seeing it again blew me away - it's a stunner from the dial to the case to the bezel (top to toe I guess!). I have now decided this is the watch for me (over the gilt GMT) but I have a couple questions:

1) Do you think the dial has been re-lumed at all? The only thing that's making me query it is there appears to be a tiny bit of lume that comes over the triangle edge at 12 o'clock (top right hand corner).

2) It has a 1530 movement and butterfly rotor which is all correct I believe but when I tried to wind the watch it felt pretty coarse/grainy only getting a bit smoother after a few good winds which is not something I've ever experienced before with my vintage Rolex. The seller (who's a good sort) reckons it's just because it's already wound from wearing it as a daily. The other thing I noticed was when I went to adjust the time backwards/anti-clock wise a few minutes there was a bit of resistance and the seconds hand started flickering and wanting to go backwards! The watch does keep good time and the power reserve does hold up for a good 2-3 days so I badly want these things to be small issues that could be resolved by a more thorough service...

I know you guys are not watch technicians but if anyone has ever experienced this sort of mechanical issues please do chime in with any advice!

Many thanks, Mike.
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File Type: jpg 5512 (1).jpg (73.5 KB, 456 views)
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Old 15 December 2018, 08:32 PM   #2
roh123
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I would expect to see the gilt surroundings around some of the lume.

Like this one:
http://shear.vaesite.net/product/196...ner-ref-5512-5
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Old 15 December 2018, 09:55 PM   #3
MikeyL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roh123 View Post
I would expect to see the gilt surroundings around some of the lume.

Like this one:
http://shear.vaesite.net/product/196...ner-ref-5512-5
Mmh this is what I'm wondering too Roh...the lume plots apart from the 12 o'clock look fine to me... but it's hard to tell and it is a very good re-lume if that's what it is. Is it possible that it was re-lumed by Rolex themselves when they were forced to reduce the amount of radium in that time period (hence the exclamation mark)?
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Old 15 December 2018, 10:14 PM   #4
MikeyL
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Some more pics

Some more pics if it helps...
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File Type: jpg 5512 (3).jpg (276.3 KB, 428 views)
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Old 15 December 2018, 10:24 PM   #5
roh123
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Really hard to judge without having it in hand. How does the lume react?
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Old 15 December 2018, 11:18 PM   #6
MikeyL
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Really hard to judge without having it in hand. How does the lume react?
Good question - I need to check this - do I do that with a UV light and if so should it glow for a while afterwards on these gilt pieces? That's what I've heard..
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Old 16 December 2018, 12:37 AM   #7
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Nicely faded bezel btw.
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Old 16 December 2018, 04:00 AM   #8
E46seca
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Second that the dial looks redone but amazing job done with it. From a collectors point on view some people might frown but I would wear that proudly....just my 2 cents
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Old 16 December 2018, 04:23 AM   #9
roh123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyL View Post
Good question - I need to check this - do I do that with a UV light and if so should it glow for a while afterwards on these gilt pieces? That's what I've heard..
Should at least light up under UV. My 62’s haven’t glowed but it should for sure react to UV. Hands should react similar. Wont really tell you if relumed unless it glows super long or look very sloppy. You need to have handled watches yourself in order to understand how it should look when exposed. If they are completely dead under UV you have a problem.

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Nicely faded bezel btw.
Nice but later
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Old 16 December 2018, 08:24 AM   #10
MikeyL
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Second that the dial looks redone but amazing job done with it. From a collectors point on view some people might frown but I would wear that proudly....just my 2 cents
Thanks for very much your thoughts....it is stunning in the flesh....even nicer than the photos portray....it's a lot of money though so I may have to leave it if it is a relume. A bit gutting !
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Old 16 December 2018, 08:27 AM   #11
MikeyL
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Originally Posted by roh123 View Post
Should at least light up under UV. My 62’s haven’t glowed but it should for sure react to UV. Hands should react similar. Wont really tell you if relumed unless it glows super long or look very sloppy. You need to have handled watches yourself in order to understand how it should look when exposed. If they are completely dead under UV you have a problem.



Nice but later
Thanks a lot for all your help and advice Roh - much appreciated
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Old 16 December 2018, 09:43 AM   #12
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How much did he ask you for this example? Asking because I got offered 5512 too (price on request) just exploring the prices atm.
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Old 16 December 2018, 10:13 AM   #13
MikeyL
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How much did he ask you for this example? Asking because I got offered 5512 too (price on request) just exploring the prices atm.
GBP 30K. Actually a decent price from my own research....but if it's a relume not so I good I guess?! Not sure what to do on it given how difficult these are to find and how nice it looks...

The 4 line versions of the same era are a big jump up in price...seems that these 2 liners come out about the same as similar period gilt 5513's.
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Old 16 December 2018, 10:19 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by MikeyL View Post
GBP 30K. Actually a decent price from my own research....but if it's a relume not so I good I guess?! Not sure what to do on it given how difficult these are to find and how nice it looks...

The 4 line versions of the same era are a big jump up in price...seems that these 2 liners come out about the same as similar period gilt 5513's.
Wow, I thought they were around mid £20k's. They do look amazing though... Does this watch have any guarantee papers? Because the 5512 I got offered has none.
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Old 16 December 2018, 04:02 PM   #15
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Shouldn't this dial have radium lumes? If so, check it also using a Geiger meter.
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Old 16 December 2018, 07:17 PM   #16
roh123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyL View Post
GBP 30K. Actually a decent price from my own research....but if it's a relume not so I good I guess?! Not sure what to do on it given how difficult these are to find and how nice it looks...

The 4 line versions of the same era are a big jump up in price...seems that these 2 liners come out about the same as similar period gilt 5513's.
A really good 2-liner costs much more than 30k. Lume is one factor and it is still hard to jusge from just pics. Gloss is for me the critical factor on a gilt dialed watch.
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Old 16 December 2018, 07:17 PM   #17
MikeyL
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Originally Posted by Comex5514_ View Post
Wow, I thought they were around mid £20k's. They do look amazing though... Does this watch have any guarantee papers? Because the 5512 I got offered has none.
No papers. I haven't seen a really good example for under 30K. I have seen a few nice gilt 5513's from 25K. But I'm buying from retail shops not direct from other collectors which should be cheaper I imagine... at that money I want at least a 1 year warranty for some peace of mind!
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Old 16 December 2018, 07:19 PM   #18
MikeyL
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Shouldn't this dial have radium lumes? If so, check it also using a Geiger meter.
Yes and as you say it's the other thing I should do as well as the UV light test but I have neither tools atm and I think the dealer would be funny about it... I think I may have leave it with some regret...!
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Old 17 December 2018, 04:34 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by MikeyL View Post
Yes and as you say it's the other thing I should do as well as the UV light test but I have neither tools atm and I think the dealer would be funny about it... I think I may have leave it with some regret...!
Any test shouldn't be a problem. If he is funny about it he can go pound sand.
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Old 17 December 2018, 11:58 PM   #20
southtexas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyL View Post
GBP 30K. Actually a decent price from my own research....but if it's a relume not so I good I guess?! Not sure what to do on it given how difficult these are to find and how nice it looks...

The 4 line versions of the same era are a big jump up in price...seems that these 2 liners come out about the same as similar period gilt 5513's.


Get an olloclip for your phone and post a macro of several of the lume plots. Also, surely the guy will let you take in a simple handheld UV flashlight? If not, then there’s your answer.

In your first pic, it looks relumed...the material looks almost glossy and looks to be reflecting light. The subsequent pics look better...

Here’s an example of $10 eBay macro Clip shot I took (do better than I did on lighting!):






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Old 19 December 2018, 01:45 AM   #21
MikeyL
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Originally Posted by southtexas View Post
Get an olloclip for your phone and post a macro of several of the lume plots. Also, surely the guy will let you take in a simple handheld UV flashlight? If not, then there’s your answer.

In your first pic, it looks relumed...the material looks almost glossy and looks to be reflecting light. The subsequent pics look better...

Here’s an example of $10 eBay macro Clip shot I took (do better than I did on lighting!):






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for the advice South. He has now sent me a short vid (mp4 which I can't upload here sadly) which shows the lume plots and hands glowing a florescent greeny colour under UV light and explained that these watches with the exclamation mark had the original higher % radium lume taken off the dial and then lower % radium lume applied by Rolex themselves to satisfy the new regs.... make sense?
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Old 19 December 2018, 01:52 AM   #22
MikeyL
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Originally Posted by roh123 View Post
A really good 2-liner costs much more than 30k. Lume is one factor and it is still hard to jusge from just pics. Gloss is for me the critical factor on a gilt dialed watch.
Thanks Roh - you are right re the price - he would like to sell this watch for over 40K but I happened with him when the watch first came in and he offered it to me in the spur of the moment at 30K... and has agreed to honour the deal... which he is a bit annoyed about now he knows better what it's worth.... all of which is making it a bit tricky to go back and forth with these questions re lume etc!
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Old 19 December 2018, 02:16 AM   #23
MikeyL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southtexas View Post
Get an olloclip for your phone and post a macro of several of the lume plots. Also, surely the guy will let you take in a simple handheld UV flashlight? If not, then there’s your answer.

In your first pic, it looks relumed...the material looks almost glossy and looks to be reflecting light. The subsequent pics look better...

Here’s an example of $10 eBay macro Clip shot I took (do better than I did on lighting!):






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
South, would you be happy for me to email you the mp4 vid showing watch under UV for your view?
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Old 19 December 2018, 03:18 AM   #24
MikeyL
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Originally Posted by roh123 View Post
A really good 2-liner costs much more than 30k. Lume is one factor and it is still hard to jusge from just pics. Gloss is for me the critical factor on a gilt dialed watch.
Thanks Roh. Would you be able to post a pic of a really good gloss dial example? I think this watch's gloss is fairly good but I don't think you could describe it as 'mirror' imho..
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Old 19 December 2018, 03:26 AM   #25
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You could just upload the video on imgur and share a link, it should work.
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Old 19 December 2018, 04:09 AM   #26
MikeyL
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You could just upload the video on imgur and share a link, it should work.
Thanks Sub - does that work:

https://imgur.com/8rG4qtl

?
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