I sincerely hope that you are listening, Mr. Stern.

[Arclight]

There are two things that I would love to see Patek do in the future that I feel would be not only be good for the brand itself but also for watch lovers in general. First, would be to release a non-limited edition of the new 5522 without the "New York" engraving. This would make a wonderful watch available those not fortunate enough to obtain one of the originals while in no way detracting from the value and exclusivity of the limited-edition. And secondly, to make a steel version of the 5524. This would bring both of the Calatrava Pilots within reach of a wider audience and would perhaps tempt me away, at least for a while, from my Rolexes. Let me know what you think of my modest proposal.

[lapince]

I think he already stated that SS Pateks were the exception and not the norm, and he wants to keep it that way, afraid you won't get a positive answer to your prayers

[Arclight]

Originally Posted by lapince

I think he already stated that SS Pateks were the exception and not the norm, and he wants to keep it that way, afraid you won't get a positive answer to your prayers

Time will tell. However, Thierry Stern did tell a friend, who is with one of the major European AD's, that Patek is looking to appeal to a wider audience. This, in my opinion, would be a move in that direction.

[Greenp]

Appealingly to a "wider audience" doesn't necessarily mean cheaper priced watches.(i.e. SS)

Originally Posted by Arclight

Time will tell. However, Thierry Stern did tell a friend, who is with one of the major European AD's, that Patek is looking to appeal to a wider audience. This, in my opinion, would be a move in that direction.

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by Arclight

Time will tell. However, Thierry Stern did tell a friend, who is with one of the major European AD's, that Patek is looking to appeal to a wider audience. This, in my opinion, would be a move in that direction.

How do you do a 5522 that doesnt detract from the LE's and significantly affect their investment. Do you think people willpay a premium for an engraving on the case back when there is a standard edition that is the same?

Perhaps they will bring in a variation of the 5522 maybe with date subdial that is distinct from the 5522 LE. I di think that they are testing the 42 mm space and finding their feet.

PP has always stated that no more than 25% of total production will be SS. Thats all models. So doing a SS pilot will lower volumes elsewhere.

I think they definately need a younger, new market but in reality do they really want to play in the rolex price range...I dont think so....

Lastly the problem with the 5524 was never price...it was aesthetics and whether a pilot watch should be in PM irrespective of price. If it was about price then its seriously good value for money as its cheaper than a 5164R that is smaller and yet shares same movement.

[jon_jon]

Originally Posted by Arclight

There are two things that I would love to see Patek do in the future that I feel would be not only be good for the brand itself but also for watch lovers in general. First, would be to release a non-limited edition of the new 5522 without the "New York" engraving. This would make a wonderful watch available those not fortunate enough to obtain one of the originals while in no way detracting from the value and exclusivity of the limited-edition. And secondly, to make a steel version of the 5524. This would bring both of the Calatrava Pilots within reach of a wider audience and would perhaps tempt me away, at least for a while, from my Rolexes. Let me know what you think of my modest proposal.

I definitely see your perspective. However IMO if the 5522A became a regular production watch, its appeal would be lost as people always want to have what they cannot have. If a watch is plentiful, it loses its appeal to a lot of people.

In appearance, 5522A is not that different from pilot's watch produced by most other brands. However its limited production and the potential to make a quick profit on a flip is probably driving its demand.

TS said that he will not produce more than 20% of his watches in SS and probably more than half of the SS produced are ladies watches. Rolex and other watch companies probably make over 50% of their watches in SS and maybe closer to 66%. Rolex is an aspiration brand that tries to appeal to a wide audience. Patek Philippe aims to appeal to a smaller group of watch enthusiasts who appreciate the history and the exclusivity of the brand.

As Karl mentioned above, I don't think Patek would make a 5524A. It would be like Rolex making the SS Skydweller and I don't see Patek doing that. However I agree that they are going to be making many more watches in the 42mm size. Larger sized Nautilus in the coming years is still my prediction.

[codecow]

I think the 5522 is intended to create interest in the brand for collectors who may be thinking about moving into Patek. The exclusivity of the pieces is a major aspect of the brand/strategy with production intentionally lower than what they could sell for entry level pieces.

If you want one and you can't get it then there are a few outcomes.

The customer wonders why they are unable to get one and then they get an explanation of the brand and how application pieces work and then they're shown some other models from inventory. I'd say this is good for the brand.

Another possibility is the customer gets angry and swears to never buy a Patek product. Unfortunately for that customer, they were already interested enough to inquire about one; what will happen on the next model or if they get a call or email from the AD about a "rare limited" regular production piece? The sad fact for this person is whether he/she knows it or not it's probably a matter of time before they jump in.

Does artificially restricting something like the 5711 blue help their overall sales? I'd say yes otherwise they wouldn't do it.

[tyler1980]

my guess is if the 5522 does become a production watch in the future it will be in WG, the same as the 5524. The SS rarity will be preserved for the LE version.

[AK797]

If he really wanted to please the majority he would increase supply of the 5711 back to the levels where at least on the resale market it would have no premium. The 5522 looks like an aberration and a placation device, I'd even say a gimmick given his SS and simple comp views.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Arclight

And secondly, to make a steel version of the 5524. This would bring both of the Calatrava Pilots within reach of a wider audience and would perhaps tempt me away, at least for a while, from my Rolexes. Let me know what you think of my modest proposal.

I don't think a SS 5524 would have the pricing effect you are thinking. A SS 5164 with the same complication is within $13k of the 5524g. A hypothetical ss 5524 is still going to be in the mid 30K range minimum, and isn't going to move anyone away from Rolex IMO based on price.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by KarlS

Lastly the problem with the 5524 was never price...it was aesthetics and whether a pilot watch should be in PM irrespective of price. If it was about price then its seriously good value for money as its cheaper than a 5164R that is smaller and yet shares same movement.

this. i had never noticed the 5164r vs 5524g comparison on price until now.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by AK797

If he really wanted to please the majority he would increase supply of the 5711 back to the levels where at least on the resale market it would have no premium.

Why would this please the majority of people?
All it takes is patience, it's rather nice these days to have something really worth waiting for - 5711 is certainly worth the wait.

[gccmd]

Patek watches were never intended for "the majority". There is a reason that they are produced in such limited quantities and cost so much. I sincerely hope they never make any "cheap" SS watches to compete with Rolex or other brands.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Why would this please the majority of people?
All it takes is patience, it's rather nice these days to have something really worth waiting for - 5711 is certainly worth the wait.

It's not for me, but even then it is cynical manipulation when the resale is pushing it to a 100% premium. Either you're smug or a mug, it's just all very ugly and these are now more tradeable commodities than watches. Rolex are playing the same game with the D500.

[martinr]

I don't think Patek thinks about it in terms of tempting someone away from Rolex. 5522A should be a one time deal, 600 of them and that's it. They commemorate the exhibition. Are people really going to want one in two years, I doubt it, they'll go back to wanting the Nautilus or Aquanaut and now they can get a 42mm Aquanaut. The 5524 is available if you order one and wait.

[Arclight]

Originally Posted by martinr

I don't think Patek thinks about it in terms of tempting someone away from Rolex. 5522A should be a one time deal, 600 of them and that's it. They commemorate the exhibition. Are people really going to want one in two years, I doubt it, they'll go back to wanting the Nautilus or Aquanaut and now they can get a 42mm Aquanaut. The 5524 is available if you order one and wait.

Patek is in the business of selling watches and I am sure that they would be more than happy to add some hard-core Rolex buyers to their customer base. The Nautilus and Aquanaut lines are both available in PM and steel. There is no reason for Patek not to do the same with the Pilots.

[jfriedkin]

the one thing that I do know is that Patek KNOWS how many watches they are able to sell. The last thing Patek will do is OVER produce a watch. If they make a limited edition to 600 they have a pretty good idea that they will sell 600 and not 800. It's about diminishing returns and keeping up the brand. "pigs get fat but hogs get slaughtered"

[hutchman]

Originally Posted by jfriedkin

the one thing that I do know is that Patek KNOWS how many watches they are able to sell. The last thing Patek will do is OVER produce a watch. If they make a limited edition to 600 they have a pretty good idea that they will sell 600 and not 800. It's about diminishing returns and keeping up the brand. "pigs get fat but hogs get slaughtered"

I disagree completely! Patek could have easily sold 1000 5522's and they certainly over produced the 5270.

[martinr]

Originally Posted by Arclight

Patek is in the business of selling watches and I am sure that they would be more than happy to add some hard-core Rolex buyers to their customer base. The Nautilus and Aquanaut lines are both available in PM and steel. There is no reason for Patek not to do the same with the Pilots.

Actually there is a reason. Listen to some interviews with Thierry Stern and you will hear the explanation. jon_jon mentioned it, steel watches aren't what they are about and it isn't going to change. Also think about the 5522A and the price, why would they want to sell more in that price range when there are customers buying much more expensive pieces already. Thierry Stern has said before the Aquanaut may have been introduced for a younger buyer, but it still isn't meant to be inexpensive enough for everyone to buy. It's for a younger buyer with the means to buy one and other Pateks.

[KarlS]

Also the 600 is not that limited. If the American market is 20% of global sales that equates to a global Production of 3000 as a comparison.

[Arclight]

Originally Posted by martinr

Actually there is a reason. Listen to some interviews with Thierry Stern and you will hear the explanation. jon_jon mentioned it, steel watches aren't what they are about and it isn't going to change. Also think about the 5522A and the price, why would they want to sell more in that price range when there are customers buying much more expensive pieces already. Thierry Stern has said before the Aquanaut may have been introduced for a younger buyer, but it still isn't meant to be inexpensive enough for everyone to buy. It's for a younger buyer with the means to buy one and other Pateks.

Consider, my friend, the 1518 steel, not to mention the lines around the block for the 5711/1A. The beauty of Patek is that that it can be about platinum minute repeaters as well as steel sports models.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by martinr

Thierry Stern has said before the Aquanaut may have been introduced for a younger buyer, but it still isn't meant to be inexpensive enough for everyone to buy. It's for a younger buyer with the means to buy one and other Pateks.

This. Its an entry to Patek, not an "entry level" watch. That is the first PP i truly loved and purchased. Another Patek was then added shortly later, and so on and so on into the future.

Plus i still don't get how "metal" at that price point matters. I got the 5164A for example because i liked it best not because the 5164r was so much more expensive and i settled. Its a lot for a SS watch by any standard. None are cheap and this idea that SS is somehow going to price them competitive to Rolex is absurd.

[Defiancekofb]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

This. Its an entry to Patek, not an "entry level" watch. That is the first PP i truly loved and purchased. Another Patek was then added shortly later, and so on and so on into the future.

Plus i still don't get how "metal" at that price point matters. I got the 5164A for example because i liked it best not because the 5164r was so much more expensive and i settled. Its a lot for a SS watch by any standard. None are cheap and this idea that SS is somehow going to price them competitive to Rolex is absurd.

I agree, Patek isn't about making a watch for certain age demographics. It's about the history and heritage of the company. Sure you can disagree and say it's just a watch company and their watches are overpriced, but on a personal level, buy what you want regardless of what others think. I disagree with the PM vs Steel argument. Some people aren't into PM watches. Which is why Patek makes a variety of Steel models with many different configurations and complications.

[Socal to az]

I know people have been complaining about the direction of Patek and there is no shortage of criticism of TS and Patek in general but I for one think their direction is brilliant. Their newer pieces are fantastic, modern and sized correctly. Nothing wrong with what Patek is doing.

They make big watches, they make smaller watches. They make complicated and they make simple. But what they do is churn out quality. Ive owned a ton of brands and nothing quite feels like a Patek. The workmanship is superb. Bravo and keep it up. You have a fan here who loves the direction of the company.

Bring on Baselworld 2018. Cant wait to see what is in store.

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by Socal to az

I know people have been complaining about the direction of Patek and there is no shortage of criticism of TS and Patek in general but I for one think their direction is brilliant. Their newer pieces are fantastic, modern and sized correctly. Nothing wrong with what Patek is doing.

They make big watches, they make smaller watches. They make complicated and they make simple. But what they do is churn out quality. Ive owned a ton of brands and nothing quite feels like a Patek. The workmanship is superb. Bravo and keep it up. You have a fan here who loves the direction of the company.

Bring on Baselworld 2018. Cant wait to see what is in store.

Going to agree with you....I wouldn't be an owner if they had carried on in as in the past with small dials, baton numerals and drop dead boring renditions of the same old watch!! There will always be those lusting after the good old days....consumer tastes change and they are needing to keep abreasyt of teh times...

[Socal to az]

They still make small dials and baton numerals. If someone wants that- they make it. But they also make newer more modern pieces. What's not to like?

[Arclight]

Originally Posted by Socal to az

I know people have been complaining about the direction of Patek and there is no shortage of criticism of TS and Patek in general but I for one think their direction is brilliant. Their newer pieces are fantastic, modern and sized correctly. Nothing wrong with what Patek is doing.

They make big watches, they make smaller watches. They make complicated and they make simple. But what they do is churn out quality. Ive owned a ton of brands and nothing quite feels like a Patek. The workmanship is superb. Bravo and keep it up. You have a fan here who loves the direction of the company.

Bring on Baselworld 2018. Cant wait to see what is in store.

X2

[Hollister]

If TS is listening, I'd be grateful if he could kindly tone-down the size of the dial font for the "PATEK PHILIPPE" signature.

It's got way, way too big on some of the references, and is now verging on vulgarity rather than the discretion for which the brand used to be known. I really don't want everyone within 10 yards knowing what's on my wrist.

[RussW]

Originally Posted by Hollister

If TS is listening, I'd be grateful if he could kindly tone-down the size of the dial font for the "PATEK PHILIPPE" signature.

It's got way, way too big on some of the references, and is now verging on vulgarity rather than the discretion for which the brand used to be known. I really don't want everyone within 10 yards knowing what's on my wrist.

I hadn't noticed that - which models are you talking about? I'd like to have a look at that.

[The B]

Originally Posted by Socal to az

I know people have been complaining about the direction of Patek and there is no shortage of criticism of TS and Patek in general but I for one think their direction is brilliant. Their newer pieces are fantastic, modern and sized correctly. Nothing wrong with what Patek is doing.

They make big watches, they make smaller watches. They make complicated and they make simple. But what they do is churn out quality. Ive owned a ton of brands and nothing quite feels like a Patek. The workmanship is superb. Bravo and keep it up. You have a fan here who loves the direction of the company.

Bring on Baselworld 2018. Cant wait to see what is in store.