Calling 16700 owners circa 1991 for NOS assesment

[JasonBetts]

Originally Posted by bluemartinifan

Beautiful, are you wearing or storing it?

Exactly the question bugging me since. I don't like to store my watches because they're meant to be enjoyed but on the other hand it may take me years to get another one with this conditions.

I need counseling


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[037]

Wear it and enjoy it just like you would have done had you purchased it new back in the day.

[sillo]

Originally Posted by JasonBetts

I need counseling

Easy answer here. Buy another one to wear

[CPRWATCH]

Congratulations , a superb example of a superb 16700 . Just wear it & enjoy

[PatRols]

Congrats! Beautiful piece. Box and guarantee definitely look legit.

I have the exact same one (16700 from 1991)... but in worn condition as it gets quite a lot of wrist time!!

I second what some others said about having a service: while I love the patina of your hands’ and markers’ lume, I do not know (all advice welcome) whether there should be any patina on a NOS example, especially with stickers in this condition. Mine has none (I wish it had more ! ;-))

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[037]

Originally Posted by PatRols

I second what some others said about having a service: while I love the patina of your hands’ and markers’ lume, I do not know (all advice welcome) whether there should be any patina on a NOS example, especially with stickers in this condition. Mine has none (I wish it had more ! ;-))

The lume discolors and darkens when in storage. As in, if a watch sits in a box or drawer for 28 years, the patina will be (or should be) yellow of some shade. Yours likely hasn't patinaed since you wear it. UV will lighten the lume and/or keep it from yellowing. So, seeing a bright, unfaded insert and yellowed lume is a correct result.

HTH

Edit: Disclaimer: This only applies to vintage lume containing tritium, not modern lume variants.

[PatRols]

Originally Posted by 037

The lume discolors and darkens when in storage. As in, if a watch sits in a box or drawer for 28 years, the patina will be (or should be) yellow of some shade. Yours likely hasn't patina'd since you wear it. UV will lighten the lume and/or keep it from yellowing. So, seeing a bright, unfaded insert and yellowed lume is a correct result.

HTH

Thanks mate! Always good to learn new stuff!

[swish77]

Fabulous case and patina. All around fantastic example of the last reference of the true Rolex GMT!

Wear that bad boy, just carefully. Would be sad just to stick it in a drawer or display case. Congrats!

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by 037

The lume discolors and darkens when in storage. As in, if a watch sits in a box or drawer for 28 years, the patina will be (or should be) yellow of some shade. Yours likely hasn't patinaed since you wear it. UV will lighten the lume and/or keep it from yellowing. So, seeing a bright, unfaded insert and yellowed lume is a correct result.

I've heard this to, but I have seen too many to count examples that have faded...often very much so...inserts, well-worn cases, and yellowed (sometimes, even pumpkin orange) dial markers. Clearly these were hard-worn watches, and probably saw a lot of day light. So, what's the explanation?

[Thuilln]

NOS or not, I doubt you could pick a better example from that era. It looks pristine.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

I've heard this to, but I have seen too many to count examples that have faded...often very much so...inserts, well-worn cases, and yellowed (sometimes, even pumpkin orange) dial markers. Clearly these were hard-worn watches, and probably saw a lot of day light. So, what's the explanation?

Could be a couple of explanations ... humidity, different tritium mixtures, watches worn hard by guys who aren't in the sun a lot.

Or ... let's say a watch was worn hard for the first 10-15 years and out in the sun a lot, so the case has some nicks and the insert has faded. Then the watch gets tucked away for the next 10-20 years. Voila! A watch with wear and tear AND heavy patina. Not so far-fetched, especially when you consider that guys often buy new watches and tuck old ones away, or guys pass away and the family keeps the watch as a memento, until someone decides to sell.

[PatRols]

Tritium and humidity are often the reasons why...


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[037]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

I've heard this to, but I have seen too many to count examples that have faded...often very much so...inserts, well-worn cases, and yellowed (sometimes, even pumpkin orange) dial markers. Clearly these were hard-worn watches, and probably saw a lot of day light. So, what's the explanation?

Those examples from HQM are difficult to judge since we don't know if they were stored, if the inserts have always been with the watches, if they were subject to moisture or humidity, or if they were worn in daylight after taking patina. Many vintage watchmakers have said darkness is a major cause (but not the only cause) of lume darkening.

In the case of the OP's 16700, I would suspect storage being the primary cause for taking a darker color. It's obviously an educated guess and not a definitive answer since we don't know the full history of the watch.

[JasonBetts]

Originally Posted by swish77

Could be a couple of explanations ... humidity, different tritium mixtures, watches worn hard by guys who aren't in the sun a lot. .

That's why collecting vintage Rolexes is very interesting coz you get to play Sherlock. Sooo many things can happen to a watch in 20-30 years and I learn a lot of different lessons for every single vintage acquisitions. Great sharing guys



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[JasonBetts]

Originally Posted by 037

In the case of the OP's 16700, I would suspect storage being the primary cause for taking a darker color. It's obviously an educated guess and not a definitive answer since we don't know the full history of the watch.

So the story of this watch, it's owned by a dentist since new, worn it a couple of times and decided to store it for decades. I did a full service before I took it home and my watchmaker told me this watch definitely hasn't been touched or moved for at least 2 decades. The lubricant was all dried up.

So it's a very educated guess 037



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[037]

Originally Posted by JasonBetts

So the story of this watch, it's owned by a dentist since new, worn it a couple of times and decided to store it for decades. I did a full service before I took it home and my watchmaker told me this watch definitely hasn't been touched or moved for at least 2 decades. The lubricant was all dried up.

So it's a very educated guess 037

Ahh, lucky guess.

Barn finds are the best. Glad it ended up with an enthusiast. Hopefully you can get it serviced and put some wrist time into it.

[Swaye]

Sexy watch!

[mineral]

Very nice example Jason. Big congrats on this Neo vintage beauty.


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[chip8541]

Im late to the party, but im in the same boat as you. Bought a 1999 Pepsi in the same condition in August. Wore it and was paranoid for awhile. The green hologram started rubbing off the top of the sticker. After a month I pulled the sticker off. This was after I pulled the red tabbed sticker on the clasp after a week of wear. Washing it in the sink it slipped out of my hand and was wigged out by the very small ding you could barely see on the corner of the lug. Next scratch happened so on and so on...

Look at it this way Im totally fine wearing it now. You can do as the dentist did, keep it in the safe for someone else to put its love on it, or be good with the fact that you were able to really own a new 16710 and make it your own. This watch is my own and i'm glad to wear it and it will never be polished. It doesn't come off my wrist now even to sleep and gets washed with Dial bar soap in the shower.

[springer]

Originally Posted by 037

There should have been a clear caseback sticker over the green sticker from what I recall. I don't know exactly when case side stickers started. Back then I didn't buy watches new. Preowned was a much better value.

I doubt this watch has been refinished. I'll reserve final judgment for better photos but it looks good from what I can tell.

I have an update on the case stickers to share with everyone. I recently purchased a "stickered-up" NOS Submariner two-tone from 2003 with an early Y serial number. This was a "holes case" meaning it had holes on the side of the lugs for the removal of the spring bars. Later in 2003, probably in the Y9xxxxx serial number range, the "no holes" cases were introduced. These "no holes" cases did not have the holes in the lugs for the removal of spring bars.

Now, getting back to the "holes case" Submariner that I purchased with the early Y serial number, this was a "stickered-up," NOS example with the bracelet clasp stickers, the clear plastic sticker found over the green case back sticker and case stickers on the side side of the case.

While I can't say for sure that 2003 was the year that full case stickers were introduced, there is a distinct possibility that 2003 was the year they were introduced based on the "no holes" cases being introduced that year on the sport models.

[037]

Originally Posted by springer

While I can't say for sure that 2003 was the year that full case stickers were introduced, there is a distinct possibility that it was based on the "no holes" cases being introduced that year on the sport models.

Certainly sounds plausible.

14060Ms had side stickers so it's not universally limited to T cases. But, that's an anomaly given that being the last case with holes. Circa 2003 sounds like a good number.

[Sherbie]

Not sure if this helps or hinders.....

But I’ve been studying up on polar Exp 2s recently, and the no holes (16570T) cases came in a little time before the Y8xxxx cases

Certainly the majority of Y7xxxx cases i have seen still have holes

Also for those of an anorak disposition....

Tritium to Swiss happened after U85xxxxxx and Swiss to Swiss Made happened after A6xx and before A69xxx





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[bayerische]

You did a great deal!

[strafer_kid]

Originally Posted by JasonBetts

OK I finally pulled the trigger. This example can't actually be considered NOS per se it is definitely an excellent example as close as it gets to NOS or like new.

In person, I've inspected both upper and lower lugs and they still have the consistent brush/strokes and they're unlikely being repolished/brushed

Some photos. Thanks all for the support and contributions




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Good to hear you went for it. NOS or not, it's a super watch and you will love it!

[Onequik135i]

Beautiful 16700, congrats on a sweet find.

[Daytonaman799]

Great pick up....enjoy!

[blowfish89]

Congratulations!
Incredible example, great find.

[1665fan]

Beauty looks close enough to NOS to me

[Alex6340]

Congratulations!!! Incredible gmt you found


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[JasonBetts]

Originally Posted by springer

I have an update on the case stickers to share with everyone.

Thanks for sharing Springer. Always learning something new from you.

Anyone happened to know or remember when did the barcoded sticker case started?



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