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Old 15 May 2017, 05:56 AM   #61
JustinRolex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeToGo View Post
So now you are knocking down this forum!
You came with a claim that you can't back up. Looking for information and Ben calls out your dial.
One person says "it could be" yadda yadda..
Dude, chill it is just a forum!
It appears that you want to own a one of a kind...which appears you do..
But the question is, is it legit...
Doesn't matter how many posts you have, "if you were a senior member" you wouldn't be talking nonsense...

I didn't mean to knock the forum in its self I learn a lot from most users just some users seem to follow a trend of putting un necessary digs in

I don't take it personal
Also I didn't take Ben as calling the dial out I found he's info useful

Lol of course I'd like it to be a one off who wouldn't but we know its not as there's a long E version knocking about too

I honestly believe this printing to be factory and with the guy who posted confirming the caligraphy as reading king hussein or something similar has obviously got my hopes up

Yes we know the dial was loose once upon a time but if this is genuine which I think it may be then even the dial alone would be a rare find
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Old 15 May 2017, 06:16 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinRolex View Post
I didn't mean to knock the forum in its self I learn a lot from most users just some users seem to follow a trend of putting un necessary digs in

I don't take it personal
Also I didn't take Ben as calling the dial out I found he's info useful

Lol of course I'd like it to be a one off who wouldn't but we know its not as there's a long E version knocking about too

I honestly believe this printing to be factory and with the guy who posted confirming the caligraphy as reading king hussein or something similar has obviously got my hopes up

Yes we know the dial was loose once upon a time but if this is genuine which I think it may be then even the dial alone would be a rare find
do you still have the original dial from the watch?
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Old 15 May 2017, 06:32 AM   #63
JustinRolex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johny View Post
do you still have the original dial from the watch?
Sorry mate don't quite understand what you mean

I bought the dial in this watch
Another member had seen the dial for sale in the past not in a watch so we know that once upon a time it was a loose dial which means it wasn't sent from factory in this case
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Old 15 May 2017, 06:42 AM   #64
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You should post your dial at the Vintage Rolex Forum, there's some top experts there who know middle eastern dials, who knows, it may worth a fortune!
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Old 15 May 2017, 06:50 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinRolex View Post
Sorry mate don't quite understand what you mean

I bought the dial in this watch
Another member had seen the dial for sale in the past not in a watch so we know that once upon a time it was a loose dial which means it wasn't sent from factory in this case
I thought that perhaps you might have been supplied with the original dial when you bought it. I would have liked to have seen the original dial.

As Richard Carver says in his post the VRF guys might know about it.
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Old 15 May 2017, 06:59 AM   #66
JustinRolex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Carver View Post
You should post your dial at the Vintage Rolex Forum, there's some top experts there who know middle eastern dials, who knows, it may worth a fortune!
Thanks mate I'll give it a go.
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Old 15 May 2017, 07:01 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johny View Post
I thought that perhaps you might have been supplied with the original dial when you bought it. I would have liked to have seen the original dial.

As Richard Carver says in his post the VRF guys might know about it.
Oh no sorry by the time I got the watch it was how I posted it

I'm going to give vrf a go.
Thanks buddy
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Old 15 May 2017, 08:49 AM   #68
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This is a saga worthy of the best Panerai stories. The ones where a super rare all original Panerai is found in a barn and put up for auction, only for the experts to point out the dial was sold in a different watch 5 years earlier.

I hope the OP finds the provenance of this dial as it's an interesting story, but one has to wonder why the dial was separated from the original watch (assuming it's original).
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Old 15 May 2017, 09:31 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinRolex View Post
Acquired from a fellow collector who has had this for many years...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinRolex View Post
I don't think I said he's had the watch for years...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinRolex View Post
Yes this was a loose dial...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinRolex View Post
I didn't buy this watch thinking they was born together...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinRolex View Post
I bought the dial in this watch...
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Originally Posted by JustinRolex View Post
Oh no sorry by the time I got the watch it was how I posted it buddy
Sorry buddy, your story is all over the map.
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Old 15 May 2017, 09:34 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry in montreal View Post
What would a Mideast crest, if genuine, add to the value of a 1675. I see these dials with crests etc and am curious. Harry
Short answer: It depends.

There are many different Mideast/Arab dials that have been commissioned over the years, for several different countries. Some more rare/sought-after than others.
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Old 15 May 2017, 09:38 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinRolex View Post
Lol of course I'd like it to be a one off who wouldn't but we know its not as there's a long E version knocking about too
Here is the long E version...

I had the chance to look at those dials up close, in my opinion, said signature did not look authentic. Comparing with other logo dials, paint used looked to thin. With today's technology and the right equipment, a signature is easy to add above the rolex text.
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Old 15 May 2017, 05:16 PM   #72
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Vrf

I am sure this will be resolved quite quickly across on VRF. A expert like Jed will no doubt be able to explain what you have
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Old 15 May 2017, 07:04 PM   #73
JustinRolex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freefly View Post
Sorry buddy, your story is all over the map.
Okay so when I bought the watch it came in this case
This case has no other markings corresponding to the dial (so I initially thought they wasn't "born" together

When I posted I said the person I got it off has had "this" for years

Then lamone posted and said he has seen the dial loose for sale in the past. Which confirmed to me it wasn't "born" in this watch
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Old 15 May 2017, 07:20 PM   #74
JustinRolex
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Sorry but confused here
Not sure how to quote several messages

Lamone first said he passed due to the unknown Provenance of the dial
Then he said cute dial none the less
Now he says when he looked it didn't look authentic?
Why not say that from the begining?

Last edited by JustinRolex; 15 May 2017 at 07:24 PM.. Reason: Edit
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Old 15 May 2017, 07:23 PM   #75
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Is this personal collection or dealer inventory?
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Old 15 May 2017, 09:00 PM   #76
JustinRolex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamone View Post
A few years ago, I saw the same exact dial (not in the watch). Within the last few years, it must have found its way into the above GMT...

Long story short, I past on it in due to its unsure provenance. King Hussein I' signature and initials do not seem to match. It almost looks Farsi.

Can you take a close up of the dial?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamone View Post
Saw it among other logo dials at a shop in the UK. Your collector friend must have acquired it from there... Cute dial nonetheless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamone View Post
Here is the long E version...

I had the chance to look at those dials up close, in my opinion, said signature did not look authentic. Comparing with other logo dials, paint used looked to thin. With today's technology and the right equipment, a signature is easy to add above the rolex text.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roh123 View Post
Is this personal collection or dealer inventory?
I don't really sell vintage I sell modern watches
I enjoy collecting and trading vintage watches
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Old 15 May 2017, 09:05 PM   #77
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So basically you use the enthusiast forum to market your vintage pieces.
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Old 15 May 2017, 09:14 PM   #78
JustinRolex
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So basically you use the enthusiast forum to market your vintage pieces.
I just said I don't sell vintage Watches I sell modern watches
I like to enjoy collect and do the odd trade here and there but I'm by far from a vintage dealer my window has not one vintage piece in there all in my safe

How in anyway have I used the forum to market my vintage pieces
I like to share them get advice and see what other people's thoughts are
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Old 16 May 2017, 01:10 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinRolex View Post
I just said I don't sell vintage Watches I sell modern watches
I like to enjoy collect and do the odd trade here and there but I'm by far from a vintage dealer my window has not one vintage piece in there all in my safe

How in anyway have I used the forum to market my vintage pieces
I like to share them get advice and see what other people's thoughts are
Hi

what's the name of your shop?

thanks

Johny.
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Old 16 May 2017, 02:23 AM   #80
JustinRolex
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Hi

what's the name of your shop?

thanks

Johny.
It's buy time London ltd you can check me out on chrono24
I have my 6542 listed on there to see what interest I can get with a trade
Everything else is modern
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Old 16 May 2017, 03:26 AM   #81
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If this was a special GMT that King Hussein gave to officers and was factory-supplied by Rolex, wouldn't we see at least several on the secondary market or mentioned on other sites through the years/decades, even if it was super rare?

I just spent 20 minutes Googling and couldn't find any others that looked like this dial/watch. That's not definitive, of course, but I'd like to see other examples out there.

And if this is indeed a legit, super rare GMT dial, why on earth would someone separate it from the original watch?
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Old 16 May 2017, 01:25 PM   #82
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I did a bit of research and found a number of different watches that were commissioned by/for King Hussein of Jordan.









Granted, I am not an expert on Jordan or Arabic, but note that all of the above watches share the same crown (missing from OP's dial) and signature (not the same as OP's dial).

I am also surprised that that nobody, here or VRF has chimed in saying that they've at least seen a similar dial in the past. I'd really like somebody to say otherwise, but this doesn't look good...
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Old 16 May 2017, 03:42 PM   #83
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Despite ibramr resourceful and eloquent explanation on p. 2, I have to agree with Wesley Crusher.

Let us leave aside the crown (which, I believe, is part of the royal insignia as can be observed from a quick glance at the late king's official website: http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/biography.html). If the watch were indeed a royal commission, there is just no discernible reason as to why the dial would not carry the full royal signature. "Al-Husayn Ibn Talal," thus. Hussein (Husayn) is a common enough name in the Muslim world, for obvious reasons. Even if the calligraphy can account for the name, it can be anything really. . . Especially now that we have already established that the watch was not "born" with this dial.
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Old 17 May 2017, 02:11 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinRolex View Post
I don't really sell vintage I sell modern watches
I enjoy collecting and trading vintage watches
Sounds to me like you are trying to add vintage watch selling to the modern that you already do. (assumption)
I dont criticise what you do as it's not my place to, but I know that most guys (myself included) buy the "seller". If buying through a dealer, we normally want to make sure we buy from someone we trust and someone that knows his vintage, and most importantly someone reputable.
Even buying from a collector that says he bought it from "x" dealer gives the watch more credibility.

What I am saying is, it would be hard to flip vintage watches as a dealer when you're asking TRF for authenticity(on every piece) before selling it.
I also think if you at some point end up selling a franken (as an honest mistake), it could inadvertently effect your current selling of modern watches.
Reputation is everything.

Just my $0.0000002
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Old 17 May 2017, 10:00 AM   #85
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Gorgeous GMT!
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Old 19 May 2017, 05:59 AM   #86
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hello

Hello Justin, Im here to learn more about Rolex's and I hope that this turns out well for you,

you haven't mention how much you paid for the watch but just as a thought, could a correct period dial be obtained and placed in the watch to make it correct, from there on you could view the back of the dial this could offer up more information? just a thought, Rgds "H"
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Old 8 June 2017, 10:22 PM   #87
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Most Jordanian military watches and "gifts" had the royal seal engraved on the back. I saw a few when I was there several years back.

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk
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Old 10 June 2017, 07:21 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinRolex View Post
Sorry but confused here
Not sure how to quote several messages

Lamone first said he passed due to the unknown Provenance of the dial
Then he said cute dial none the less
Now he says when he looked it didn't look authentic?
Why not say that from the begining?
I read that as a more eloquent way of saying "I passed on these because I thought they were fake", obviously this is up for interpretation.

I am a new member to this forum but not the forum world in general, I can confirm that folks are generally quite nice on this site. I feel like you are missing the point of everyones comments.

You bought a watch you were told was authentic, or at least with an authentic but unoriginal dial. All signs point to this NOT being authentic, including actual examples of Royal commissions.

As a group of collectors and hobbyist that spend large sums of money to purchase authentic, rare, items you are going to get a pretty harsh response with the direction you have taken. I don't see anyone attacking you at all, I feel like you are being a bit hostile when people are only attempting to assist you.

The fact is, unless an expert can chime in and provide a paper trail/confirmable story, or the seller provides docs, you purchased a watch that is incorrectly represented as authentic. I see two issues with this that may be contributing to folks response.

1. The seller is clearly unethical, you hanging onto the weakest of possibilities just adds to the oddness of this. Additionally, most people are trying to help you as you clearly purchased this, and, paid for it as if it were authentic.

2. No one wants to see fakes entering the market under the pretense of being authentic. This is not a court of law, something isn't authentic until proven otherwise. Nothing is authentic until proven.

IMHO you should represent this as a modified/aftermarket dial unless you can provide anything at all to back up the contrary.
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Old 11 June 2017, 03:52 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATX View Post
I read that as a more eloquent way of saying "I passed on these because I thought they were fake", obviously this is up for interpretation.

I am a new member to this forum but not the forum world in general, I can confirm that folks are generally quite nice on this site. I feel like you are missing the point of everyones comments.

You bought a watch you were told was authentic, or at least with an authentic but unoriginal dial. All signs point to this NOT being authentic, including actual examples of Royal commissions.

As a group of collectors and hobbyist that spend large sums of money to purchase authentic, rare, items you are going to get a pretty harsh response with the direction you have taken. I don't see anyone attacking you at all, I feel like you are being a bit hostile when people are only attempting to assist you.

The fact is, unless an expert can chime in and provide a paper trail/confirmable story, or the seller provides docs, you purchased a watch that is incorrectly represented as authentic. I see two issues with this that may be contributing to folks response.

1. The seller is clearly unethical, you hanging onto the weakest of possibilities just adds to the oddness of this. Additionally, most people are trying to help you as you clearly purchased this, and, paid for it as if it were authentic.

2. No one wants to see fakes entering the market under the pretense of being authentic. This is not a court of law, something isn't authentic until proven otherwise. Nothing is authentic until proven.

IMHO you should represent this as a modified/aftermarket dial unless you can provide anything at all to back up the contrary.
Good write up
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Old 12 June 2017, 05:47 AM   #90
JustinRolex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATX View Post
I read that as a more eloquent way of saying "I passed on these because I thought they were fake", obviously this is up for interpretation.

I am a new member to this forum but not the forum world in general, I can confirm that folks are generally quite nice on this site. I feel like you are missing the point of everyones comments.

You bought a watch you were told was authentic, or at least with an authentic but unoriginal dial. All signs point to this NOT being authentic, including actual examples of Royal commissions.

As a group of collectors and hobbyist that spend large sums of money to purchase authentic, rare, items you are going to get a pretty harsh response with the direction you have taken. I don't see anyone attacking you at all, I feel like you are being a bit hostile when people are only attempting to assist you.

The fact is, unless an expert can chime in and provide a paper trail/confirmable story, or the seller provides docs, you purchased a watch that is incorrectly represented as authentic. I see two issues with this that may be contributing to folks response.

1. The seller is clearly unethical, you hanging onto the weakest of possibilities just adds to the oddness of this. Additionally, most people are trying to help you as you clearly purchased this, and, paid for it as if it were authentic.

2. No one wants to see fakes entering the market under the pretense of being authentic. This is not a court of law, something isn't authentic until proven otherwise. Nothing is authentic until proven.

IMHO you should represent this as a modified/aftermarket dial unless you can provide anything at all to back up the contrary.
Thanks for your input and completely agree and understand, after some thought I returned the watch.
Thanks to everyone who commented.
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