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15 May 2017, 05:56 AM | #61 | |
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Quote:
I don't take it personal Also I didn't take Ben as calling the dial out I found he's info useful Lol of course I'd like it to be a one off who wouldn't but we know its not as there's a long E version knocking about too I honestly believe this printing to be factory and with the guy who posted confirming the caligraphy as reading king hussein or something similar has obviously got my hopes up Yes we know the dial was loose once upon a time but if this is genuine which I think it may be then even the dial alone would be a rare find |
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15 May 2017, 06:16 AM | #62 | |
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15 May 2017, 06:32 AM | #63 |
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Sorry mate don't quite understand what you mean
I bought the dial in this watch Another member had seen the dial for sale in the past not in a watch so we know that once upon a time it was a loose dial which means it wasn't sent from factory in this case |
15 May 2017, 06:42 AM | #64 |
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You should post your dial at the Vintage Rolex Forum, there's some top experts there who know middle eastern dials, who knows, it may worth a fortune!
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15 May 2017, 06:50 AM | #65 | |
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As Richard Carver says in his post the VRF guys might know about it.
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15 May 2017, 06:59 AM | #66 |
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15 May 2017, 07:01 AM | #67 | |
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I'm going to give vrf a go. Thanks buddy |
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15 May 2017, 08:49 AM | #68 |
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This is a saga worthy of the best Panerai stories. The ones where a super rare all original Panerai is found in a barn and put up for auction, only for the experts to point out the dial was sold in a different watch 5 years earlier.
I hope the OP finds the provenance of this dial as it's an interesting story, but one has to wonder why the dial was separated from the original watch (assuming it's original). |
15 May 2017, 09:31 AM | #69 | |
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15 May 2017, 09:34 AM | #70 | |
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There are many different Mideast/Arab dials that have been commissioned over the years, for several different countries. Some more rare/sought-after than others. |
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15 May 2017, 09:38 AM | #71 | |
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I had the chance to look at those dials up close, in my opinion, said signature did not look authentic. Comparing with other logo dials, paint used looked to thin. With today's technology and the right equipment, a signature is easy to add above the rolex text. |
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15 May 2017, 05:16 PM | #72 |
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Vrf
I am sure this will be resolved quite quickly across on VRF. A expert like Jed will no doubt be able to explain what you have
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15 May 2017, 07:04 PM | #73 |
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Okay so when I bought the watch it came in this case
This case has no other markings corresponding to the dial (so I initially thought they wasn't "born" together When I posted I said the person I got it off has had "this" for years Then lamone posted and said he has seen the dial loose for sale in the past. Which confirmed to me it wasn't "born" in this watch |
15 May 2017, 07:20 PM | #74 |
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Sorry but confused here
Not sure how to quote several messages Lamone first said he passed due to the unknown Provenance of the dial Then he said cute dial none the less Now he says when he looked it didn't look authentic? Why not say that from the begining? Last edited by JustinRolex; 15 May 2017 at 07:24 PM.. Reason: Edit |
15 May 2017, 07:23 PM | #75 |
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Is this personal collection or dealer inventory?
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15 May 2017, 09:00 PM | #76 | |||
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Quote:
Quote:
I enjoy collecting and trading vintage watches |
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15 May 2017, 09:05 PM | #77 |
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So basically you use the enthusiast forum to market your vintage pieces.
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15 May 2017, 09:14 PM | #78 | |
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I like to enjoy collect and do the odd trade here and there but I'm by far from a vintage dealer my window has not one vintage piece in there all in my safe How in anyway have I used the forum to market my vintage pieces I like to share them get advice and see what other people's thoughts are |
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16 May 2017, 01:10 AM | #79 | |
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what's the name of your shop? thanks Johny.
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16 May 2017, 02:23 AM | #80 |
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16 May 2017, 03:26 AM | #81 |
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If this was a special GMT that King Hussein gave to officers and was factory-supplied by Rolex, wouldn't we see at least several on the secondary market or mentioned on other sites through the years/decades, even if it was super rare?
I just spent 20 minutes Googling and couldn't find any others that looked like this dial/watch. That's not definitive, of course, but I'd like to see other examples out there. And if this is indeed a legit, super rare GMT dial, why on earth would someone separate it from the original watch? |
16 May 2017, 01:25 PM | #82 |
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I did a bit of research and found a number of different watches that were commissioned by/for King Hussein of Jordan.
Granted, I am not an expert on Jordan or Arabic, but note that all of the above watches share the same crown (missing from OP's dial) and signature (not the same as OP's dial). I am also surprised that that nobody, here or VRF has chimed in saying that they've at least seen a similar dial in the past. I'd really like somebody to say otherwise, but this doesn't look good... |
16 May 2017, 03:42 PM | #83 |
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Despite ibramr resourceful and eloquent explanation on p. 2, I have to agree with Wesley Crusher.
Let us leave aside the crown (which, I believe, is part of the royal insignia as can be observed from a quick glance at the late king's official website: http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/biography.html). If the watch were indeed a royal commission, there is just no discernible reason as to why the dial would not carry the full royal signature. "Al-Husayn Ibn Talal," thus. Hussein (Husayn) is a common enough name in the Muslim world, for obvious reasons. Even if the calligraphy can account for the name, it can be anything really. . . Especially now that we have already established that the watch was not "born" with this dial. |
17 May 2017, 02:11 AM | #84 | |
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I dont criticise what you do as it's not my place to, but I know that most guys (myself included) buy the "seller". If buying through a dealer, we normally want to make sure we buy from someone we trust and someone that knows his vintage, and most importantly someone reputable. Even buying from a collector that says he bought it from "x" dealer gives the watch more credibility. What I am saying is, it would be hard to flip vintage watches as a dealer when you're asking TRF for authenticity(on every piece) before selling it. I also think if you at some point end up selling a franken (as an honest mistake), it could inadvertently effect your current selling of modern watches. Reputation is everything. Just my $0.0000002 |
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17 May 2017, 10:00 AM | #85 |
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Gorgeous GMT!
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19 May 2017, 05:59 AM | #86 |
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hello
Hello Justin, Im here to learn more about Rolex's and I hope that this turns out well for you,
you haven't mention how much you paid for the watch but just as a thought, could a correct period dial be obtained and placed in the watch to make it correct, from there on you could view the back of the dial this could offer up more information? just a thought, Rgds "H" |
8 June 2017, 10:22 PM | #87 |
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Most Jordanian military watches and "gifts" had the royal seal engraved on the back. I saw a few when I was there several years back.
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10 June 2017, 07:21 AM | #88 | |
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I am a new member to this forum but not the forum world in general, I can confirm that folks are generally quite nice on this site. I feel like you are missing the point of everyones comments. You bought a watch you were told was authentic, or at least with an authentic but unoriginal dial. All signs point to this NOT being authentic, including actual examples of Royal commissions. As a group of collectors and hobbyist that spend large sums of money to purchase authentic, rare, items you are going to get a pretty harsh response with the direction you have taken. I don't see anyone attacking you at all, I feel like you are being a bit hostile when people are only attempting to assist you. The fact is, unless an expert can chime in and provide a paper trail/confirmable story, or the seller provides docs, you purchased a watch that is incorrectly represented as authentic. I see two issues with this that may be contributing to folks response. 1. The seller is clearly unethical, you hanging onto the weakest of possibilities just adds to the oddness of this. Additionally, most people are trying to help you as you clearly purchased this, and, paid for it as if it were authentic. 2. No one wants to see fakes entering the market under the pretense of being authentic. This is not a court of law, something isn't authentic until proven otherwise. Nothing is authentic until proven. IMHO you should represent this as a modified/aftermarket dial unless you can provide anything at all to back up the contrary. |
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11 June 2017, 03:52 AM | #89 | |
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12 June 2017, 05:47 AM | #90 | |
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Thanks to everyone who commented. |
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