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22 August 2017, 12:21 AM | #1 |
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Need help with a vintage 5513
Calling vintage experts, what's your take on this piece in terms of originality and authenticity.
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22 August 2017, 09:34 AM | #2 |
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Just adding some more details: '66 5513 Meter First Dial 1.4 mil serial
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22 August 2017, 07:02 PM | #3 |
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The insert is a service one, need some better photos to judge thethe rest of it (sides, back etc...) 1.4m 1966 matte dial meters first do exist (i've had one and seen many) before anyone says otherwise
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22 August 2017, 07:15 PM | #4 | |
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Each to their own though when it comes to transitional watches. |
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23 August 2017, 01:05 AM | #5 |
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I have a 1.49 mil serial matte 5513.
Clearly both gilt/gloss and matte exist in this serial range, both being correct. Less blurry pics, with the hands placed at 10:00 would be helpful.
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23 August 2017, 01:41 PM | #6 | |
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Further comments are welcomed, thank you in advance. |
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23 August 2017, 05:52 PM | #7 | |
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There.. you see... you have to remember what a cottage industry Rolex was in the 60s - outsourcing dials and putting together toolwatches in a warehouse. |
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24 August 2017, 08:33 AM | #8 | |
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I'm not saying it aint true but these transtional will always be doubtful in many peoples eyes. Each to their own though. |
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24 August 2017, 11:34 AM | #9 | |
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Being stamped 66 inside only means that the caseback is from 66...nothing more. IMO a matte dial watch from 1966 will never obtain the same value as a glossy dial as there will always be doubt...my .02. |
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24 August 2017, 11:35 AM | #10 |
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Its not uncommon for hands and dial to age differently as they didn't necessarily come from the same supplier. Have you looked at the hands under a loupe? Thats the best way to determine if they were relumed.
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24 August 2017, 06:10 PM | #11 |
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@GES11T
The watch is made up of what seem like authentic parts, but there's not much that's original to the watch as it left the factory, IMHO. I agree with your opinion on the handset...you'd want to see some corrosion on the metal (it's unbelievably clean) and some variance/discoloration in the lume (they look freshly painted). Perhaps the movement and case are alright (I have concerns with the dial), but considering the watch as a whole, there are red flags. ———————— Instagram: @onthedial |
24 August 2017, 08:59 PM | #12 | |
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Then there's the history of that watch which was a one owner from new and with full original papers... so no case change in this case - dial perhaps but the previous original owner says that never happened. always buy the seller... anyhow my watch is long sold so can't offer any more photos at the moment |
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24 August 2017, 10:02 PM | #13 | |
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25 August 2017, 09:19 AM | #14 |
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There's no doubt to me. I don't believe in matte subs or GMTs in a 1.4m serial. I think they are early replacements. That doesn't make me right but that is what I believe. When I find one which seems untouched I might change my mind but so far those I've come across haven't been in original condition except the dials. That is by no means proof but I have my opinion clear. Hope that is ok?
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25 August 2017, 10:51 AM | #15 |
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It seems the consensus is pretty split in regards to whether pre 1.6 mil matte dial is original or service. To be honest only Rolex god knows n he is not talking. That said, my inquiring mind wants to know if pre 1.6 mil meter first commands the same value as later meter first?
I blame it on the autoconnect. |
25 August 2017, 12:50 PM | #16 | |
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Ive been collecting watches for 30 years and if I had $1 for every time I've heard from the original owner that the watch was never touched Id be a rich man (ok, not rich...but the strippers would love me). Its rarely true and the odds the dial were changed are just as great as if it wasn't. Rule #27 of collecting...never trust the story from the guy who works in the service department for many years. Im not saying the dial is a service dial...im just saying that it is impossible to confirm either way and even the memory of the original owner is rarely accurate 50 years later...dont get me started on the "guy who works in the service department"...his opinion is worth as much as anyones on this forum. For that matter, the knowledge of the members of this forum is far far greater than anyone working in the service department. |
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25 August 2017, 12:52 PM | #17 | |
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25 August 2017, 02:17 PM | #18 | |
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25 August 2017, 02:20 PM | #19 | |
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25 August 2017, 04:38 PM | #20 |
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back to the dial in question, it doesnt look right to me, the lume is too uniform, oddly aged colour, matched with oddly perfect hand set. In the second picture it looks like there is markings-? scratching around plots 1,2,3,7,8 .... need a loop and better shots but doesnt look good to me,
with the limited photos given and whats already been disclosed- id be passing on this watch. |
27 August 2017, 05:24 PM | #21 |
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Colour? Personally I like 'Pumpkin' and it's still a meters 1st dial and would be a nice daily wearer. Nothing for most collectors though with the dubious dial-ser.nr match and the other replaced parts
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29 August 2017, 02:11 AM | #22 |
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29 August 2017, 02:44 AM | #23 |
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Can we see the whole dial?
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29 August 2017, 02:53 AM | #24 |
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29 August 2017, 10:37 AM | #25 |
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Interesting how the lumes are a very different shade to OG and the hands lume matched plus they looked mint as well.
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30 August 2017, 12:06 AM | #26 |
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I have a 1.49 serial matte meters 1st. it's no doubt an original dial. they do exist
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30 August 2017, 12:11 AM | #27 |
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pic of my 1.49 serial matte 5513
Thanks
Justin |
30 August 2017, 12:28 AM | #28 | |
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It could of course be as you say but I am curious how you know. |
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31 August 2017, 02:46 AM | #29 |
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Of course I'm not I was born in '71. But I've seen many '66 subs with both gilt & matte dials. My watch being a 1.49 with stamp from 4th quarter of '66 matte dial is feasible. Watch is all original from insert , tube, crown etc.
I believe 66 was the transition yr from gilt to matte. Thanks Justin |
28 November 2017, 07:50 AM | #30 |
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Hello
I'm a novice but keen to get into this field. Please can someone give me an indication of what I should pay for what a reputable dealer describes as an all original early meters first 5513 in very good condition with all papers and the original bracelet? It has a beautiful strong pumpkin patina across the hands and markers and the original pearl. I have been looking for some time and prices seem to be rising fast. Thanks Ronnie |
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