Speculation on 5970 numbers

[stradman]

Hi Everyone,
Seeing that most people would ask their Genie for a 5970, I tried to find out how many were produced.
Obviously I know its speculation as Patek does't publish number but I found a thread about this and wonder if many of you would roundly agree of disagee with some of their conclusions......

http://firstwristwatch.com/patek-1/I...continued.html

[stradman]

Originally Posted by stradman

Hi Everyone,
Seeing that most people would ask their Genie for a 5970, I tried to find out how many were produced.
Obviously I know its speculation as Patek does't publish number but I found a thread about this and wonder if many of you would roundly agree of disagee with some of their conclusions......

http://firstwristwatch.com/patek-1/I...continued.html

Wow 147 views but not 1 reply! Must have said something wrong.....

[conkers]

Haha! Too many debates on the subject already I guess!

[iazrollie]

The head of an large auction house said 1,000 rose, 750 white, 500 platinum and 500 yellow.

[HL65]

Originally Posted by iazrollie

The head of an large auction house said 1,000 rose, 750 white, 500 platinum and 500 yellow.

I have heard 800 of R and G, 500 of P and less than 200 of J. Who knows but all we know is that the J and P the least and R and G are probably the same. Also demand for J the least and thus price as well even though it is rarest. The R has higher demand than J and G and sells at premium. Of course the P sells for the most as expected. Overall it is a highly sought after piece and to me represents the very best of Patek. Sadly those days are gone! As for numbers there will always be senate as only Patek knows the true numbers.

[Daytonaman799]

When i bought mine I was put in touch by a collector with a PP expert who told me that J was the least produced, likely less than 100 because of what Gold did during the 2008 production run when PP did not hedge Gold prices. R was ore but the most produced were in P and G as white metals have been in the most demand for the last 20+ yrs. This is still reflected in the trading values today.

[tom2517]

Material cost is a fraction of the MSRP, I highly doubt it's the cause of the low production. Companies likes to lead people to think the cost of producing the goods is higher than what it actually is.

It's not the cost of making them that's expensive, it's the cost of selling them.

[myopiccoog]

Thierry told me personally that the J is by far the least produce. I said really? Compared to P? He followed up and said way less. From the horses mouth.

I heard about the hedge. Also at the time you had the financial meltdown and some currency issues. I believe the G and R last retail price was around 89k. The J came out at 128k and the P came out at 138k. I think all of those things made the J soft which made Patek pull the plug and go P after 8 months.

[stradman]

Originally Posted by myopiccoog

Thierry told me personally that the J is by far the least produce. I said really? Compared to P? He followed up and said way less. From the horses mouth.

I heard about the hedge. Also at the time you had the financial meltdown and some currency issues. I believe the G and R last retail price was around 89k. The J came out at 128k and the P came out at 138k. I think all of those things made the J soft which made Patek pull the plug and go P after 8 months.

Well that is interesting but I guess if you take into consideration that maybe yellow gold was not as desirable its makes sense...But way less?....What like maybe 150? Who knows....

[Kittayos]

The j still doesn't appeal to the majority as reflected in today's price, less than a retailed price back then.

[stradman]

Originally Posted by Kittayos

The j still doesn't appeal to the majority as reflected in today's price, less than a retailed price back then.

True...but do remember fads change and what goes round may come round. No one knows of course but just saying. I guess people should buy what they like and speaks to them today, but I can't help thinking that many people do buy things like jewelry depending on the the fashion or trend of the day. And although a watch is a watch it is adorned or framed by a precious metal(which is subjected to fads), the tastes of which may and probably will change. So what may not be desirable today(i.e.J) may become desirable tomorrow. If that did happen and yellow gold became "in" again you can imagine what the price of a 5970J would command considering the aforementioned small production numbers. Again this is totally hypothetical and no one knows, but just saying........

[tom2517]

I checked the gold and platinum prices in 2007 and 2008..

In those 2 years, gold went from $650/ounce to close $1k. While platinum went from close to $2k/ounce at one point down to around $1k/ounce.

As those two prices converge Patek likely saw an opportunity to switch to Platinum where they can charge a higher MSRP, but the cost not much different than from gold.

[soundserious]

how many A's? now you're talking rare...

[tom2517]

Originally Posted by soundserious

how many A's? now you're talking rare...

5970 was never made in steel for public, but with Patek you never know if they made some one offs for special clients, as some times you do see unusual Pateks pop at auctions that no one knew it was made before.

[unknown]

750 up to 1000 is more than I expected. That is as good as the same as the 5070.
Since the 5970 has an extra complication I would have guessed less 5970

But maybe once again patek prefered to make the more expensive pieces. The base calibre
is the same but the 5970 is more expensive so I m sure the profit on these is bigger

Just like they made 500 platinum 5970 (if these posts above are correct) and only 150 or so platinum 5070

[HL65]

Originally Posted by unknown

750 up to 1000 is more than I expected. That is as good as the same as the 5070.
Since the 5970 has an extra complication I would have guessed less 5970

But maybe once again patek prefered to make the more expensive pieces. The base calibre
is the same but the 5970 is more expensive so I m sure the profit on these is bigger

Just like they made 500 platinum 5970 (if these posts above are correct) and only 150 or so platinum 5070

Bruno the truth is nobody knows the real numbers and it is all pure speculation as you know. The only thing we do know is that the J was least produced and also least in demand. All of them are very collectible and still rare with strong demand.