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Old 20 January 2021, 04:49 AM   #211
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Let’s get back on track with this fascinating thread.

I don’t think Portugal is a big secret anymore as it relates to a wonderful and affordable retirement destination....
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Old 20 January 2021, 05:05 AM   #212
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UK may be too. UK was just surviving, not pushing back or making inroads. I'm pretty sure if you look at the twentieth century, USA dominated discoveries in transistors, microchips, PCs, ethernet, space, air. Not dismissing the struggle or tenacity or a Malta I believe. Other countries have obviously made great contributions, but the UK did not defeat the Nazi threat nor the USSR, and I doubt they could have on their own. Whereas the USA might have been able to on their own and was inarguably a turning point in terms of the power of that war.

Not to mention marshall plan and soft power. When the USA was behind we quickly caught up. It seems interesting to me how many across the globe are so dismissive of the US, but perhaps particularly the UK.
Lets be honest, the US joined the war because of Pearl Harbour, not to save the UK, The Battle of Britain had already been won without US support, the UK was on its last legs 18 months before the US joined the war.

It seems interesting to me how many across the globe are so dismissive of the USSR in the war, but perhaps particularly the US. Without their involvement and sacrifice the war would have been a lot more difficult to win. I wont talk about Japan either but a good Google on why Japan surrendered is interesting reading.

You can chest thump all you want mate, but the UK has shaped this world more than another country in the history of the world.
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Old 20 January 2021, 05:06 AM   #213
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Last time I was in Europe, I was in Amsterdam and talking with a bunch of locals in a bar, very nice and friendly people by the way. I asked what they thought of Americans. They said Americans were so narrow minded, an example was everybody only spoke one language, English. In Holland everyone spoke at least two, Dutch and English, and many spoke several.

So I started speaking Spanish.
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Being Dutch I can assure you that lots of people in Amsterdam live on their own planet and are not representative of our country. You see the same attitude in big cities everywhere.

Every year in the Netherlands we have a nation wide memorial on 4th May whereby the complete country comes to a stand still when remembering the fallen.
It is really a very sacred moment. Primary school classes are involved to keep the memory alive.

We have not forgotten and never will.
As with any good friend no harm in making jokes about stereotypes imho


Since I seem to be the one that unintentionally opened this can of worms, if you read my OP, I referred to the Dutch as “very nice and friendly” and I believe this every and anywhere I was in Holland. I have visited several times and found the people to be among the most friendly in the world. So, to be clear, my post was a positive of the Dutch, and was not implying in any way they have a lack of respect for Americans or anyone else; the incident I described was all fun and laughs.

Since you are in Holland, stop by and visit Bas, tell him I said hello.
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Old 20 January 2021, 05:11 AM   #214
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Lets be honest, the US joined the war because of Pearl Harbour, not to save the UK, The Battle of Britain had already been won without US support, the UK was on its last legs 18 months before the US joined the war.

It seems interesting to me how many across the globe are so dismissive of the USSR in the war, but perhaps particularly the US. Without their involvement and sacrifice the war would have been a lot more difficult to win. I wont talk about Japan either but a good Google on why Japan surrendered is interesting reading.

You can chest thump all you want mate, but the UK has shaped this world more than another country in history.

Yep, for several hundred years our older cousins with the funny accents (why can’t you guys speak regular English? ) basically shaped the world we live in now. A little known fact is how many Americans, prior to Pearl Harbor, supported Nazi Germany and wanted us to enter the war against the Russians. And your point about Japan surrendering was one of my thesis papers in college. It is arguable that Japan surrendered NOT because of the A bombs, but rather because Russia had declared war and attacked them, they realized it was all lost at that stage.

OK, ENOUGH of the digression, let’s get this thread back to the interesting topic it was, living abroad for a retirement. Dave, is my room ready?
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Old 20 January 2021, 05:16 AM   #215
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Yep, for several hundred years our older cousins with the funny accents (why can’t you guys speak regular English? ) basically shaped the world we live in now. A little known fact is how many Americans, prior to Pearl Harbor, supported Nazi Germany and wanted us to enter the war against the Russians. And your point about Japan surrendering was one of my thesis papers in college. It is arguable that Japan surrendered NOT because of the A bombs, but rather because Russia had declared war and attacked them, they realized it was all lost at that stage.

OK, ENOUGH of the digression, let’s get this thread back to the interesting topic it was, living abroad for a retirement. Dave, is my room ready?
Of course my friend it would be my honor (notice the spelling in your honour). Actually, why do we use the letter "u" over here, it's useless. Paul, all joking aside, very good post my friend.
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Old 20 January 2021, 06:07 AM   #216
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If not for Americans, they'd be speaking German.
Strange comment and rather rude.

If not for France, the US as it is, would not exist either.

Countries are interconnected. But this has nothing to do with this thread.

And the comment that preceded yours, about speaking English. The US is a vast country. European countries in almost any direction within a few miles there are other countries that speak a different language, hence the need to speak more languages to basically exist. The US is not like that. As anyone knows, to speak languages one really needs to do it on a rather constant basis.

I learned French in school in Canada, but the French part of the country was 1700 miles away, so I soon forgot most of it.
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Old 20 January 2021, 07:19 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by daveathall View Post
Lets be honest, the US joined the war because of Pearl Harbour, not to save the UK, The Battle of Britain had already been won without US support, the UK was on its last legs 18 months before the US joined the war.

It seems interesting to me how many across the globe are so dismissive of the USSR in the war, but perhaps particularly the US. Without their involvement and sacrifice the war would have been a lot more difficult to win. I wont talk about Japan either but a good Google on why Japan surrendered is interesting reading.

You can chest thump all you want mate, but the UK has shaped this world more than another country in the history of the world.
You’re introducing arguments I didn’t make. Which are non-sequitur and have a weak warrant. But i do think this attitude is why the UK can’t see the US shaped the modern world from flight to commercial flight, assembly line manufacturing, to search, social media, cell phones, phones, first demonstrations of radio, tv, and more. Sir I think you know, and most pragmatic people, there are too many things to list here that are of consequence.

This is not to be dismissive of others, but it seems like your post is, and underscores my argument that it appears that some from the UK are often dismissive of the great and many accomplishments of the USA.

To more directly challenge your new argument. The Egyptians, Greeks and Romans I’d posit more directly shaped the last two millennium. The part about being magnanimous was not something I said, and you admit being on your last legs which actually supports my argument.

Also just so you know my grandfather went to Japan. Not everyone surrendered. More than they expected but he told me he had to secure an air field from riflemen in mountains. He as highest ranking 10th mountain division officer was tasked with.
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Old 20 January 2021, 07:42 AM   #218
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You’re introducing arguments I didn’t make. Which are non-sequitur and have a weak warrant. But i do think this attitude is why the UK can’t see the US shaped the modern world from flight to commercial flight, to search, social media, cell phones, phones, first demonstrations of radio, tv, and more.

To more directly challenge your new argument. The Egyptians, Greeks and Romans I’d posit more directly shaped the last two millennium. The part about being magnanimous was not something I said, and you admit being on your last legs which actually supports my argument.

Also just so you know my grandfather went to japan. Not everyone surrendered. More than they expected but he told me he had to secure an air field from riflemen in mountains. He as highest ranking 10th mountain division officer was tasked with.
The UK was on it's last legs well before the US joined, it wasn't the US that held them up, I didn't prove any of your argument.

Your second paragraph does not refute my argument in any way.

Congratulations to your grandfather, as a former soldier I respect all former military men, I truly mean that, but you did miss my point on the surrender of Japan, perhaps you don't know the other theory/facts or choose to ignore them.

It looks like we are both proud of our respective countries and rightly so. You wont change my mind and I suspect I wont change yours. I am very pro America you are obviously anti Brit. Fair enough mate, let's just call it a day. I'm out.
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Old 20 January 2021, 07:45 AM   #219
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The UK was on it's last legs well before the US joined, it wasn't the US that held them up, I didn't prove any of your argument.

Your second paragraph does not refute my argument in any way.

Congratulations to your grandfather, as a former soldier I respect all former military men, I truly mean that, but you did miss my point on the surrender of Japan, perhaps you don't know the other theory/facts or choose to ignore them.

It looks like we are both proud of our respective countries and rightly so. You wont change my mind and I suspect I wont change yours. I am very pro America you are obviously anti Brit. Fair enough mate, let's just call it a day. I'm out.
I argued the UK wasn't making inroads. Could not defeat the Germans or the USSR without the USA. By saying UK was on it's last legs, it supports that argument.

You said Japan surrendered, which was a non-sequitur argument. I pointed out that not everyone surrendered. I don't know your other point because you didn't cite anything or explain it in a way that I could refute, but honestly it has nothing to do with the current argument. Suggesting that Japan was just going to surrender and we didn't need to drop bombs, send landing forces, nor fight some hold outs I think would be a difficult argument. I don't think you laid out a defensible one.

I hope that logic can sway reasonable men.
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Old 20 January 2021, 07:49 AM   #220
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I argued the UK wasn't making inroads. Could not defeat the Germans or the USSR without the USA. By saying UK was on it's last legs, it supports that argument.

You said Japan surrendered, which was a non-sequitur argument. I pointed out that not everyone surrendered. I don't know your other point because you didn't cite anything or explain it in a way that I could refute, but honestly it has nothing to do with the current argument. Suggesting that Japan was just going to surrender and we didn't need to drop bombs, send landing forces, nor fight some hold outs I think would be a difficult argument. I don't think you laid out a defensible one.

I hope that logic can sway reasonable men.
Google is your friend. You are seriously saying you didnt know?

I'll help.

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And your point about Japan surrendering was one of my thesis papers in college. It is arguable that Japan surrendered NOT because of the A bombs, but rather because Russia had declared war and attacked them, they realized it was all lost at that stage.
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Old 20 January 2021, 07:53 AM   #221
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Google is your friend. You are seriously saying you didnt know?

I'll help.
This isn't logical argument sir. And again even if you were right in that claim it doesn't disprove my claim. I do think it would be hard to defend.
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Old 20 January 2021, 08:09 AM   #222
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This isn't logical argument sir. And again even if you were right in that claim it doesn't disprove my claim. I do think it would be hard to defend.

To further refute your arguments I would suggest many in the US have a great deal of respect for Russia and China. Perhaps more of a competitive nature, with disagreements about motivation and governance. I can tell you from my undergrad education Russian programmers, mathematicians, physicists, are well respected in the USA. We also respect the Germans greatly.

I think the thought that US is narrow-minded is perhaps a narrow-minded view of the USA. Just like dismissing the US accomplishments is a dismissive view.
It's you that dismissed other countries. Where have I dismissed the US accomplishments and have stated they are narrow minded? I think you are now being illogical. Your reference about Russia and China completely misses the point about the war. You respect those countries but are anti Brit, thats fine mate, but dont dismiss our accomplishments.

Ahh, I see you edited.
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Old 20 January 2021, 08:13 AM   #223
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I think we should perhaps delete our posts and carry this debate on by PM, we may ruin a perfectly good thread.
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