Patek 5170P or 5650G ?

[LHE063]

Reveal that you are offered to purchase a Platinum 5170P or an Aquanaut Travel Time 5650G ?

What would you buy and why ?

[rollee1]

5650 without a doubt.
Simply because it's rare and limited, AR is PP top engineering.

[KarlS]

5650 as its interesting but neither on my list to be honest

[unknown]

5170 ,, that aquanaut is just ugly
This is not a Patek, don't understand why they made this "zenith open"

[lapince]

Not a fan pf the 5170 so would go for the Aquanaut myself, hesitated to get it to be honest so that would be my clear choice, not sure they will soon again make a limited AR sport model, and as I understand it's only the 4th AR piece they made, might be wrong though believe it's 4th

[sprezzatura]

I am a huge fan of practically the entire PP sports line, but I have to go with 5170P on this one. That dial flows so beautifully that even the diamond baguette markers don't stick out. . .

[mps354]

I'd probably go 5170p

[thomaspp]

Is Neither an option? Lol... 5650G I suppose if given the option


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[AK797]

5170

[GB-man]

5650 for me

[subtona]

Manual wind movment vs automatic movment.


5170

[jon_jon]

5650 is limited to 500 pieces. Once they are gone, they are gone. As for the 5170, it is not limited in number, so you should be able to get it later if you decide you still want one. So my choice is the 5650.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

5650 is limited to 500 pieces. Once they are gone, they are gone. As for the 5170, it is not limited in number, so you should be able to get it later if you decide you still want one. So my choice is the 5650.

Of course we can't know for sure, however looking at the 5170 production
The previous gold versions of the 5170 have been produced for as little as 2 years, while platinum versions have been known to be shorter in some other models.

Would it be unreasonable to think the 5170P may have roughly the same 500 piece production run?


Ps is 500 pieces really such a limited productions?
With that many being produced I would expect there to commonly be a few available on the secondary market at premium of course.

[jon_jon]

Originally Posted by subtona

Of course we can't know for sure, however looking at the 5170 production
The previous gold versions of the 5170 have been produced for as little as 2 years, while platinum versions have been known to be shorter in some other models.

Would it be unreasonable to think the 5170P may have roughly the same 500 piece production run?


Ps is 500 pieces really such a limited productions?
With that many being produced I would expect there to commonly be a few available on the secondary market at premium of course.

It is true that previous AR versions were produced in smaller numbers, 100 for the 5250 and 300 each for the 5350/5450/5550. So they have increased the production number for the 5650. The previous ARs were also more traditional in appearance as ACs and PC. The Aquanaut AR with a partial skeleton view of the travel time mechanism is very different from the previous ARs. My opinion is that Patek produced the previous AR for the more traditional collectors, whereas this new AR attracts a group of more non-traditional collectors.

The production number of 5170P is to be determined for sure. Most people agree that the 5170J/G/R were over-produced as supply exceeded demand. We don't know yet how the supply/demand ratio will be like for the 5170P. We also do not know if Patek will produce the 5170P in different versions in the next few years (e.g. without diamonds or a different colored dial).

Personally I do not think Patek will limit production to 500 pieces for the 5170P. That means each AD will only receive one piece and the Salons receive a few more. I have not seen Patek produce a regular production watch in such small quantities since the 5070P. My guess is that even low production watches like the 5235 and the 5524 were produced in the low thousands. And this was because they had a new (or revised) movement.

We can only wait and see how the production cycle unfolds for the 5170P. It is a great looking watch and I will certainly consider adding it to my collection after I have seen it in person.

[zerocool]

5650 is trading for over double retail in the secondary market if that compels you one way or another...

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[locutus49]

5170 for me. You get to see much more through the exhibition back. And it just looks good.

[nyc2la]

5170p

[nyc2la]

Double post

[subtona]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

It is true that previous AR versions were produced in smaller numbers, 100 for the 5250 and 300 each for the 5350/5450/5550. So they have increased the production number for the 5650. The previous ARs were also more traditional in appearance as ACs and PC. The Aquanaut AR with a partial skeleton view of the travel time mechanism is very different from the previous ARs. My opinion is that Patek produced the previous AR for the more traditional collectors, whereas this new AR attracts a group of more non-traditional collectors.

The production number of 5170P is to be determined for sure. Most people agree that the 5170J/G/R were over-produced as supply exceeded demand. We don't know yet how the supply/demand ratio will be like for the 5170P. We also do not know if Patek will produce the 5170P in different versions in the next few years (e.g. without diamonds or a different colored dial).

Personally I do not think Patek will limit production to 500 pieces for the 5170P. That means each AD will only receive one piece and the Salons receive a few more. I have not seen Patek produce a regular production watch in such small quantities since the 5070P. My guess is that even low production watches like the 5235 and the 5524 were produced in the low thousands. And this was because they had a new (or revised) movement.

We can only wait and see how the production cycle unfolds for the 5170P. It is a great looking watch and I will certainly consider adding it to my collection after I have seen it in person.

Good points.

Re the 5070 the platinum version is believed to have been produced at numbers near half or less of its previous gold incarnations, considering that model perhaps the 5170P will surprise us?

To your point production numbers are high compared to the old Patek, the 5070 may mark the end of an era?

5235/5524 are both fantastic pieces, 5524 among my favorite of current production but they are not the platinum incarnations of themselves...

I guess the question is, will Patek continue a tradition of lower production #s for its platinum models ?


All said,
I very much want to see and dream of being offered a steel/gray dial version of the 5170A

[mps354]

Originally Posted by subtona

Good points.
All said,
I very much want to see and dream of being offered a steel/gray dial version of the 5170A

My hope as well Gus...that would be something

[jon_jon]

Originally Posted by subtona

I guess the question is, will Patek continue a tradition of lower production #s for its platinum models ?

For a watch like the 5170P, there will be lower production numbers than the 5170 in other metals (J/G/R). However whether it will be 25% or 50% or 75% lower - that is anyone's guess.

Since year 2010 or so, Patek has really ramped up total production numbers and they don't seem to be holding back excess inventory. My concern is they will flood the market with the 5170P and it will be available at every AD and gray sellers will sell them at a steep discount.

There is still a perception that difficult to get pieces are more desirable. And when something is ubiquitous, people lose interest because it has lost its rarity.

As an aside, I often look at what the platinum premium is for a Patek piece - amount or percentage one pays extra for a platinum version of the same reference. For the 5170P, list price is $96K USD, whereas the 5170G/R are $81K USD. As a percentage, this platinum premium is one of the lowest amongst Patek watches, at less than 20% (or $15K USD price difference).

Some interesting platinum premiums are 68% for the 5196P ($15K USD difference) and 54% for the 5146P ($22K difference) to 25% for the discontinued 5140 ($21K difference). As the price range increases, the platinum premium as a percentage goes down. It is more difficult for ADs to sell a 5196P or a 5146P because the $15K-$20K in price difference is considered more significant at that price level, compared to watches in the $80K-$100K level.

[brettpaul]

5170P - the size and dial cut out on the 5650 just don't work for me...

[lapince]

Originally Posted by zerocool

5650 is trading for over double retail in the secondary market if that compels you one way or another...

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There is even a site selling one for over 200k, but I can also put my 5711 on Chrono24 for 100k, doesn't mean it will sell. I find it very interesting but it is special, so most traditional PP collectors will probably not be interested by it, maybe there will be a premium, but doubt strongly that they will sell for twice their retail...

[ap1]

5170

[charge]

5170P.

Just got an allocation. ETA September!

[subtona]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

For a watch like the 5170P, there will be lower production numbers than the 5170 in other metals (J/G/R). However whether it will be 25% or 50% or 75% lower - that is anyone's guess.

Since year 2010 or so, Patek has really ramped up total production numbers and they don't seem to be holding back excess inventory. My concern is they will flood the market with the 5170P and it will be available at every AD and gray sellers will sell them at a steep discount.

There is still a perception that difficult to get pieces are more desirable. And when something is ubiquitous, people lose interest because it has lost its rarity.

As an aside, I often look at what the platinum premium is for a Patek piece - amount or percentage one pays extra for a platinum version of the same reference. For the 5170P, list price is $96K USD, whereas the 5170G/R are $81K USD. As a percentage, this platinum premium is one of the lowest amongst Patek watches, at less than 20% (or $15K USD price difference).

Some interesting platinum premiums are 68% for the 5196P ($15K USD difference) and 54% for the 5146P ($22K difference) to 25% for the discontinued 5140 ($21K difference). As the price range increases, the platinum premium as a percentage goes down. It is more difficult for ADs to sell a 5196P or a 5146P because the $15K-$20K in price difference is considered more significant at that price level, compared to watches in the $80K-$100K level.

Great info!

I think we are seeing an acknowledgment by Patek of overpricing the 5170 gold releases, with the P they are pricing it more to what the market would support.

Perhaps if the gold were priced around 60k, they would have performed better and as a result we would have seen that higher platinum premium ?

[cervantes]

Neither. A 5164 or a 5070 for me.

[KWT]

5170p for me.

[locutus49]

5170.

I am not a fan of the aquanaut. It looks like a basketball or something. I know I'm in the minority.

[pd999]

5170P