Is it possible: To be sold a "real" watch with fake movement/parts?

[mjclark32]

Is it possible, sure. But, I'd bet you're 100% Rolex in and out with your sellers. I wouldn't waste the money (never have and I've bought most of mine all grey (DSW)).
And, yes, they'll have valid warranty assuming they've been stamped by the AD.

[mjclark32]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

You can buy GENUINE movements. No idea where they come from.
I had one from a fake watch and I sold it for $3000.

In past 6 weeks I have seen about 1 dozen genuine movements in fake cases and dials

What movements are they mostly?
Coming out of old datejusts that don't hold value anymore?
Or do you think they're out of stolen pieces?

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

this hobby gets stranger by the day. You have to admit real watches with fake movement and real movements on fake watches is bizarre. Kind of miss the days when the entire watch was real or fake

AGREED
I used to teach that if movement was GENUINE - watch was GENUINE - NOT the case anymore.
Our company got caught a few times, I got caught once, now we know what/where to look to make sure entire watch is bona-fide

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by mjclark32

What movements are they mostly?
Coming out of old datejusts that don't hold value anymore?
Or do you think they're out of stolen pieces?

No idea where they originated
I have seen DEEPSEA (James Cameron's) GMTII (BATMAN), SUBMARINER (HULK)
I also have a ladies DATEJUST
All had/have GENUINE movements
A

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by mjclark32

What movements are they mostly?
Coming out of old datejusts that don't hold value anymore?
Or do you think they're out of stolen pieces?

i think i see where he is going...

buy a BLRO at retail... so 10K. Then re-movement it and sell it for 20k. Then put the movement in a passable fake and sell that for 20k. Then you made 20K instead of 10K. Rough example, but is this what is being referred to?

That assumes the person who bought the real case isn't going to open it, and the person who bought the fake case will have the red flags eased when they see a genuine movement inside.

am i connecting the dots correctly here?

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by ThatExplorer

Never said it was like the Rolex one just stated it’s blue in color just something to be aware of.




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Again, nice visual and actual info..

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

i think i see where he is going...

buy a BLRO at retail... so 10K. Then re-movement it and sell it for 20k. Then put the movement in a passable fake and sell that for 20k. Then you made 20K instead of 10K. Rough example, but is this what is being referred to?

That assumes the person who bought the real case isn't going to open it, and the person who bought the fake case will have the red flags eased when they see a genuine movement inside.

am i connecting the dots correctly here?

All I can confirm is my case
Customer brings in a ROLEX for Loan
I checked visually - looks OK
So I opened and checked movement - GENUINE - Do Loan

5 months later the watch comes out of pawn
Comes to HQ
I did a full check under HD microscope, and realize case/bracelet/dial are fake.
now we know, we have stopped it.
But our stores see at least 1/week!!!
adam

[ThatExplorer]

Originally Posted by Knappo 1307

Again, nice visual and actual info..

You’re welcome! I do basic services at my home for watches and replicas (yes I know but it’s easy money to service these watches OR if people want Gen parts installed that’s simple as well)...

I’ve seen a lot of these movements and serviced a lot of them. The fakes are getting REALLY good now, and especially with a 16610 with no rehuat engraving the SH3135 movement fits a Gen dial, hands, crystal, bezel assembly and insert, DWO and date change spring and module it’s a VERY passable fake without cracking it open. This is the point I was making. But there is also a Factory in China called JF who makes this model and you can swap a Gen movement in it (fits perfectly) and you wouldn’t know the difference without looking at SN or under microscope.


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[JBZ]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

No idea where they originated
I have seen DEEPSEA (James Cameron's) GMTII (BATMAN), SUBMARINER (HULK)
I also have a ladies DATEJUST
All had/have GENUINE movements
A

And yet you won't post any pictures or other evidence backing up this claim. Just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true.

[007timer]

Originally Posted by beshannon

Yes.

Does this also worry you about your car, phone, tv or pc?

I have to disagree with you. There are fake Ferrari 250 GTO's out there. China has copied the iphone & TV's, and PC's are the easiest, Dell Shell with junk hardware.

The OP has to go get the watch opened up and checked out. There are movements out there that are stamped "rolex" but to the trained eye, its easily detected.

[007timer]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

To make a fast $3000

Exactly, it not more.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by 007timer

I have to disagree with you. There are fake Ferrari 250 GTO's out there. China has copied the iphone & TV's, and PC's are the easiest, Dell Shell with junk hardware.

The OP has to go get the watch opened up and checked out. There are movements out there that are stamped "rolex" but to the trained eye, its easily detected.

[F83]

I wouldn't worry about this with current models and/or if you are buying from a reputable grey market distributor. I suppose theoretically its possible but it isn't worth it for a reputable grey market like Jomashop (for instance) to play games like this.

However, if you are buying vintage or "aged" - especially if buying through ebay or direct from the seller through a different medium - you absolutely need to be paying attention. Frankenwatches do exist. That's why the saying goes - you are not buying the watch - you are "buying" the seller. Meaning; don't buy from anyone you don't trust or who doesn't have an established positive reputation.

[toxicavenger]

Originally Posted by JBZ

And yet you won't post any pictures or other evidence backing up this claim. Just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true.

You are right. He constantly post info with no evidence at all. I can't believe they let him keep spreading mis-information like it is fact.

[toxicavenger]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

You can buy GENUINE movements. No idea where they come from.
I had one from a fake watch and I sold it for $3000.

In past 6 weeks I have seen about 1 dozen genuine movements in fake cases and dials

More baseless info I see.

[Fabrice M]

Originally Posted by F83

I wouldn't worry about this with current models and/or if you are buying from a reputable grey market distributor. I suppose theoretically its possible but it isn't worth it for a reputable grey market like Jomashop (for instance) to play games like this.

However, if you are buying vintage or "aged" - especially if buying through ebay or direct from the seller through a different medium - you absolutely need to be paying attention. Frankenwatches do exist. That's why the saying goes - you are not buying the watch - you are "buying" the seller. Meaning; don't buy from anyone you don't trust or who doesn't have an established positive reputation.

Frankenwatches Are no problems as they are not fake. Just miss-matched parts. I had one, when I got to RSC to have it serviced, they replaced the parts that didn’t belong with the right one. No big deal.

[Rocket launcher]

I am sorry to say but There is a chance of probability that all of your watches contain
Fake internals and you have blown away 50k

However this is highly unlikely there is more chance that only one has fake internals
I just hope for your sake it's not the jubilee

And then as you bought from grey dealers the chances of fake internals is negligible..
However there is a chance

From an AD they would all be real
But you paid your money you took the chance

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by 007timer

I have to disagree with you. There are fake Ferrari 250 GTO's out there. China has copied the iphone & TV's, and PC's are the easiest, Dell Shell with junk hardware.

The OP has to go get the watch opened up and checked out. There are movements out there that are stamped "rolex" but to the trained eye, its easily detected.

Not sure what you disagree with

I answered the OP's question with a yes.

Then I asked if he was worried about fake parts in other things, because it happens.

Bottom line is who you buy from as everyone here knows.

[asiparks]

Originally Posted by toxicavenger

More baseless info I see.

yeah...seems implausible... statistically, for so many of these to be turning up in his "shops" there'd have to be thousands of these gen movement /fake watches floating around.

No pics of any, no buzz on any of the either gen or fake forums....
I know some people build their own pet projects out of genuine and fake parts, but not on the scale suggested...and rarely with genuine movements

[kingaustin]

Thanks for all the help guys. I recently brought the watches to my AD and all were verified as authentic :)

[Andad]

Originally Posted by kingaustin

Thanks for all the help guys. I recently brought the watches to my AD and all were verified as authentic :)

An AD or a RSC?

[jrs146]

Originally Posted by asiparks

you are worrying about nothing.

is it possible that someone could bung in a fake move ? yes, anything is possible, but neither of the sellers you bought from are going to risk their business to make a few dollars on the side.

If you're in the business of selling fakes, far easier and more profitable to sell a whole fake watch on eBay or CL than piss around opening up watches, changing out dials and hands etc.



Vintage, as mentioned above, is a different story.....

Never day never. I have a friend who bought a submariner from someone that was a real case/dial/bracelet but had a fake movement. My friend sold it unknowingly to a trusted seller here on TRF who listed it for sale without knowing the movement was fake. In the end it was discovered and by another person and eventually made its way back to my fried. However there is a good chance that it could have gone unnoticed and ended up in another buyers hands. Always be careful and don’t expect that every gray dealer is checking every single part.


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[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by jrs146

Never day never. I have a friend who bought a submariner from someone that was a real case/dial/bracelet but had a fake movement.

Be MIGHTY careful, according to everyone on here, its just not possible - even though it is!

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by directioneng

An AD or a RSC?

why? Both can officially authenticate

[Andad]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

why? Both can officially authenticate

As you do?

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by directioneng

As you do?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CdVTCDdEwI

[CorradoBrit]

Originally Posted by Knappo 1307

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CdVTCDdEwI

[aa909]

Originally Posted by kingaustin

Hello there, in the past year I've purchased multiple stainless steel models, to name a few: a hulk, batman, pepsi all from grey dealers.

is there any chance at all that these could be legitimate as it appears on the outside but internally the movements swapped? I bought these all blindly and I have no reason to think they are otherwise legitimate, however I just have a thought in the back of my head that I have spent close to $50k in watches and it would supremely suck if any of these carried any type of fake parts, unknown to my untrained eye. Whether intentional ( though i doubt the resellers I have purchased from would risk their reputation) or perhaps the grey dealer did not know when taking these watches in they could possibly carry fake parts internal or external.

I purchased from the following resellers: sdwatches, ocwatchguy, and bobs watches. I know all these guys carry STELLAR reputations, however, I can't help but imagine there might be one or two 'tainted' watches, that would slip through the cracks, and I know i'm just being paranoid. Has there any been any cases in the past that perhaps any of the above or any other resellers that have had any sort of issues?

What is stopping the shady dealers from swapping out a part here and there and offloading them as 100% authentic?

i realized these watches they i purchased are technically 'grey', do they still carry the warranty if within the year period?

this is why they say "buy the seller not the watch"

If the seller has a reputation to protect, and a long history of positive deals and feedback, then you are 99.9% ok. but if that 0.1% is bothering you then going to an AD to open the caseback and confirm is all you can do.

[aa909]

Originally Posted by kingaustin

Thanks for all the help guys. I recently brought the watches to my AD and all were verified as authentic :)

ok cool. I posted earlier before seeing this. Glad you got piece of mind :)

[Ryanrolex]

Originally Posted by aa909

this is why they say "buy the seller not the watch"

If the seller has a reputation to protect, and a long history of positive deals and feedback, then you are 99.9% ok. but if that 0.1% is bothering you then going to an AD to open the caseback and confirm is all you can do.

I think what he means is that even if you open the case back, there could still be after market parts that would require full servicing to discover.