Does anybody else feel this way?

[NWNL]

Yes I really loathe the current situation. It's one of the reason I sold most of my Rolex es to buy my dream piece; the Day-Date and focus on other brands (so I don't have to worry too much about value retention)

[Marcjvr]

I personally think the situation is crazy, but I also think a little patience goes a long way. Whether it’s being on a waitlist or sitting on your cash on the sidelines waiting for the bubble to pop.

Just 2 years ago I was looking at getting a 16610 and prices in the secondary market were ~$5k Now they are north of $7k!!!

Bubble will go pop. Always does. Be patient.

[Nairn1980]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

there are too many customers. There use to be too many watches. Supply is more or less the same.

doesnt help being in the UK where a watch with zero vat for a tourist or a non british resident represents a 25% discount from US pricing +sales tax. People are scrambling all over each other to pay retail for anything

Yup, too many punters fighting for the same watches.
You play the AD game as it is, dig deep and go grey, or switch brands pretty much.

[Token74]

Firstly, we don’t know what the Rolex strategy is, so we can only guess based on trends and rumour.

My guess is that:

1. Rolex have not reduced production and have likely kept production percentages (across their range) broadly consistent

2. There is currently a spike in demand because (a) people are doing quite well and have confidence in the economy, and (b) Rolex prices have not increased as much as some other brands

3. Rolex can address the current issue by increasing supply; but...they would likely have to invest in production facilities and resources. If they do this, and the economy hits a wall, they take a big hit.

4. Rolex can address the current issue by reducing demand, by putting prices up. If they do this and the economy hits a wall, they will be left with prices that people can’t/won’t pay and will be faced with the dreadful position of needing to lower prices (very damaging to a premium brands reputation).

5. They are quite happy with demand outstripping supply and they likely don’t care about some people grumbling on a forum. Their job is to consider the long term, not the short term.

As for the OP, like many in here he is now suffering because he took advantage of discounted grey prices. Hard to blame someone for doing that, but equally hard to blame an AD for prioritising those that were loyal during the less-good times.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Miguel Alvarez 2.0]

It's quite good that there is not much new I want from Rolex over something vintage. I was tempted by the new Pepsi but won't be playing the waiting list game. If one comes up and I have the cash then good if not then it wasn't meant to be. Meh.

The downside (or good side if you're my bank balance) is that I can't remember the last time I actually went into a dealer or grey dealer to look at anything. All of my purchases have been impulse buys.

[faz]

Originally Posted by BlueIn2Red

I'm sure this "strategy" from Rolex makes some sense to them at least, but in my case, its only effect is to prevent a loyal and passionate customer from buying any more (Rolex) watches.

Frankly, I was more or less a 'Rolex only' kind of a person (admittedly new to this WIS world and all)... and the lack of availability has made me looking at other brands, and there are some very good choices out there. I would buy a SS BLRO in a heartbeat if it were available at MSRP, regardless of its future value or how many other people own it. But I won't pay the $17k - $18k asking prices of grey market for it.

Is this a loss for Rolex? I guess so. But it is what it is.

[R!$]

+1

I dont like new watches either

[904VT]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

there are too many customers. There use to be too many watches. Supply is more or less the same.

doesnt help being in the UK where a watch with zero vat for a tourist or a non british resident represents a 25% discount from US pricing +sales tax. People are scrambling all over each other to pay retail for anything

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but i think Rolex could do well for themselves to take certain markets and limit purchases to local residents only. The know your customer focus of the ADs more recently has certainly helped some though.

[DocHorton]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

doesnt help being in the UK where a watch with zero vat for a tourist or a non british resident represents a 25% discount from US pricing +sales tax. People are scrambling all over each other to pay retail for anything

What is the reason they are so much cheaper in the UK? Is the MSRP less or does it have to do with the exchange rate or what?

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by DocHorton

What is the reason they are so much cheaper in the UK? Is the MSRP less or does it have to do with the exchange rate or what?

exchange rate is one... the VAT is 20%.... and US prices don't include tax because it varies from state to state.

Because US prices dont list tax it gives the appearance it costs less than it does. Even in stores tax is added at the point of sale, its not on the price tag

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by 904VT

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but i think Rolex could do well for themselves to take certain markets and limit purchases to local residents only. The know your customer focus of the ADs more recently has certainly helped some though.

On boxing day i was in my AD and a busload of chinese tourists came in. Literally a bus, i saw them trying to park it on bond street.

They buy whatever the AD has a lot of times. Im sure they love it

Patek has something like 1 AD in China. Its not like the Chinese are not buying watches, its just not at home.

[np208]

Agree with OP, really ruins the experience.

When buying a watch as expensive as a Rolex, I want to buy it from an AD and never have to worry about authenticity

[TJMike]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

On boxing day i was in my AD and a busload of chinese tourists came in. Literally a bus, i saw them trying to park it on bond street.

They buy whatever the AD has a lot of times. Im sure they love it

Patek has something like 1 AD in China. Its not like the Chinese are not buying watches, its just not at home.

There are two Patek Maisons in China (Beijing and Shanghai).

As for your claim that Chinese people are not buying watches on the mainland, this is one of the more absurd statements I have seen on this website (even if one believes your statement is hyperbole). A simple search would see Chinese people are buying a hell of a lot of watches at home. First thing that came up on google, "In 2017, the overall sales of watches still rose by 6.3% to top RMB69.7 billion on the mainland."

Edit: Mainland China is the third largest watch market (in $) for the Swiss. https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/sw...-business-news
Chinese people are buying watches everywhere and thank whatever god you want because without them the entire watch industry would be in major trouble.

[MTdweller]

OP: I feel the same way you do. I love my Rolex watches but I purchased them at a time when I could actually walk into an AD and see almost every model in the display case. I need to see the watches in person, try them on, and then have the opportunity to buy them at or below MSRP. But even if Rolex loses a sale to people like you or me, there are ten more lined up right behind us more than willing to pay big $$$ over MSRP. Paying $23k for a SS Daytona that retails at just over $12k? No thanks!

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by TJMike

There are two Patek Maisons in China (Beijing and Shanghai).

As for your claim that Chinese people are not buying watches on the mainland, this is one of the more absurd statements I have seen on this website (even if one believes your statement is hyperbole). A simple search would see Chinese people are buying a hell of a lot of watches at home. First thing that came up on google, "In 2017, the overall sales of watches still rose by 6.3% to top RMB69.7 billion on the mainland."

Edit: Mainland China is the third largest watch market (in $) for the Swiss. https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/sw...-business-news
Chinese people are buying watches everywhere and thank whatever god you want because without them the entire watch industry would be in major trouble.

its the largest country in the world and only the third largest watch market.Its probably bigger in population than the combined total of that list of the other 14 largest watch markets. All you have to do is go to an AD in Europe so see that many prefer to buy here. Nothing wrong with that, just saying its a huge source of sales ... european AD's selling to chinese tourists

India is similar. AP noted as much with their head of asian sales. Its a large source of sales but its indirect via other countries when traveling.

meanwhile HK is a huge watch market. and a small population. 8 million people and the biggest source of swiss exports. I am guessing a lot of that is mainland china as well.

what is the reason there are two patek AD's in china and like 50 ( im guessing)in the UK? The british don't have the population to support that on their own. My AD has mandarin speaking staff 5 days a week. its necessary

The context of my reply was clearly pointing out that its NOT in a european AD's best interest to institute a locals only purchase policy. Non locals represent a lot of their sales. China or otherwise.

[TJMike]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

its the largest country in the world and only the third largest watch market.Its probably bigger than the combined total of that list of 15 countries in population. All you have to do is go to an AD in Europe so see that many prefer to buy here. Nothing wrong with that, just saying its a huge source of sales ... european AD's selling to chinese tourists

India is similar. AP noted as much with their head of asian sales. Its a large source of sales but its indirect via other countries when traveling.

meanwhile HK is a huge watch market. and a small population. 8 million people and the biggest source of swiss exports. I am guessing a lot of that is mainland china as well.

what is the reason there are two patek AD's in china and like 50 ( im guessing)in the UK? The british don't have the population to support that on their own. My AD has mandarin speaking staff 5 days a week. its necessary

The context of my reply was clearly pointing out that its NOT in a european AD's best interest to institute a locals only purchase policy. Non locals represent a lot of their sales. China or otherwise.

Patek only has two boutiques in China because they want the aura of European-image exclusivity. Look up Stern’s comments about Patek’s China strategy if you are interested.

All other brands (including Rolex) have boutiques and ADs throughout Mainland China. Patek is the exception, not the rule.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by TJMike

Patek only has two boutiques in China because they want the aura of European-image exclusivity. Look up Stern’s comments about Patek’s China strategy if you are interested.

All other brands (including Rolex) have boutiques and ADs throughout Mainland China. Patek is the exception, not the rule.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just throwing out numbers (to make my point), you could say that china could still be the third largest watch market in the world even if 70% of buyers purchased abroad. 30% is still a ton of watch sales. based on the number of buyers there is no way it should be #3. It should be #1 by a lot. Still don't see how that is an absurd statement.

They have money, they have population, and they like watches same as europe minus the population.

[TJMike]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

Just throwing out numbers (to make my point), you could say that china could still be the third largest watch market in the world even if 70% of buyers purchased abroad. 30% is still a ton of watch sales. based on the number of buyers there is no way it should be #3. Still don't see how that is an absurd statement.

To paraphrase you said Chinese people do not buy watches in China. That is an absurd statement. My point is that they buy a lot of watches at home and abroad.

BTW, did a quick search of Rolex ADs in Beijing (there are 10) and Shanghai (there are 9). There would be (as a guess), close to 50-75 Rolex ADs in China.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by TJMike

To paraphrase you said Chinese people do not buy watches in China. That is an absurd statement. My point is that they buy a lot of watches at home and abroad.

BTW, did a quick search of Rolex ADs in Beijing (there are 10) and Shanghai (there are 9). There would be (as a guess), close to 50-75 Rolex ADs in China.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i still think they buy the majority abroad otherwise the numbers dont make sense.

[TJMike]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

i still think they buy the majority abroad otherwise the numbers dont make sense.

I agree with this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by TJMike

I agree with this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

just clearing that up because i got from the tone you took my statement as somehow anti china... it was pro china in that their buying power is enormous and they are well traveled

[TJMike]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

just clearing that up because i got from the tone you took my statement as somehow anti china... it was pro china in that their buying power is enormous and they are well traveled

All good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk