.:Don't hate the player, Hate the game:. - AD/GREY

[tacotaco]

We are all presuming that the Greys just prop up an have all these watches to sell at their disposal

They got there by building years worth of relationships and honorable/A+++ transactions. They got us the hard to find pieces. They negotiated and haggled with us. So lets not discredit their business acumen.

Its part of the game. Its not like the Greys are wearing the 5712 and the Ceramic Daytonas. They are SELLING them to an OBSESSED CONSUMER.

[soundwave]

Amen. No problem with the grey dealers here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CoveWatch]

Originally Posted by tacotaco

We are all presuming that the Greys just prop up an have all these watches to sell at their disposal

They got there by building years worth of relationships and honorable/A+++ transactions. They got us the hard to find pieces. They negotiated and haggled with us. So lets not discredit their business acumen.

Its part of the game. Its not like the Greys are wearing the 5712 and the Ceramic Daytonas. They are SELLING them to an OBSESSED CONSUMER.

agree.. when its all said and done its a business... i don't mind having greys as an additional option to my AD because sometimes you just dont know with an AD

[Bavariandoc]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

The grey market is necessary co-distribution channel for Rolex. They will never admit this,but the reality is that a watch sold is a future order filled regardless.

The problem was that there were too many watches out there and the prices were getting too low. A race to the bottom as Greys fought to undercut each other.

That is not a good look for a luxury brand. Having a substantial number of references BELOW MSRP on the grey market is nasty business for brand prestige.

Rolex can see what happens to a brand that lets things get out of control. They get soft and weak. Undesirable. Uncool. Unsold.

Clear evidence is seen with the continuing demise of other swiss brands who are not controlling their distribution. Richemont for example. They bought back millions of junky references to keep them from being BLOWN OUT on the grey market. They had to take drastic, emergency action to reel in the impending disaster...

Rolex took much less drastic action by simply limiting supply of product. That cleaned up the secondary market pricing very nicely. Now the watches are trading higher than MSRP and brand integrity and prestige is restored. Good job Rolex.

You must ask yourself, what do you want?

Do you want a brand that is strong and desirable? If so, this is how it is done. It is not ROLEX themselves being mean and nasty...It's US! WE (as the market) dictate what the conditions are by our buying behavior. We WANT things MORE the LESS we can have them.

Other brands aren't limiting production and have plenty of great watches available via an AD at any time. Guess what? NOBODY WANTS THEM!

They aren't spoken about on forums, there is no buzz or excitement over them. No anticipation of their new releases. They just kind of exist.

Is that what you want Rolex to be?

On point!

IMO, we tend to forget for many years before this higher demand of SS watches and 'new generation' of customers due to strong economy, a repeat/loyal customers and 'gray' friends of AD were, and still are, main buyers. its simply logical and business decision on AD's end to offer any hard to get watches first to them.

gray sellers are taking advantage of position and market by marking up these hard to get pieces. they are banking on idea Rolex won't increase the supply to meet demand, and its been working so far

when I bought my BLNR and asked a possibility of getting Daytona in future. sales lady was very blunt with me.... it will be quite impossible to get as those pieces are reserved for people that spend $50-100k a year on watches/jewelry with us. this is where gray friends fall with ADs...

[904VT]

Well you did miss one thing that they do that contributes to the problem:

Finding the newest hot Basel releases from whatever source necessary before anyone else, just to be able to overprice and set the market by being first to market. We wouldn't see $19k CHNRs otherwise

[AK797]

Originally Posted by American Jedi

Demand or not, a 12k (Daytona) watch should never garner an 8K hype premium. 1k is Palatable, but eight? If the manufacturer (Who in sane world is usually the most ludicrous price possible)doesn’t think it’s worth more than 12K. It most likely isn’t worth 20+ by any stretch of the imagination. I mean heck obviously they knew this, Because not long ago I could usually get a 10% discount at the AD without him looking at me like I was on a controlled substance.

I believe most people are leaving the gray market, because they realize it is hurting their hobby, and more than anything there principles will not allow it.

It's not just what cash premiums are palatable, it is also what wait times are palatable. A few months is fine, just like a few hundred premium is fine, but if you say five grand is too much then you can also say 2 years is too long. I fall more into the time category nowadays, I couldn't wait more than a few months and those who can wait a year or two have incredible patience or are youngsters who think they'll live forever, and boy do I hate them.

[Ballzzz]

Originally Posted by AK797

It's not just what cash premiums are palatable, it is also what wait times are palatable. A few months is fine, just like a few hundred premium is fine, but if you say five grand is too much then you can also say 2 years is too long. I fall more into the time category nowadays, I couldn't wait more than a few months and those who can wait a year or two have incredible patience or are youngsters who think they'll live forever, and boy do I hate them.

lol i'm just a youngster please don't hate me lol

[oldman2005]

Amazing how time has changed, a year back or so, TS or grey were touted as a good place to go to get SS sport watches with some good discount.

Hate it or not, TS or grey is slowly becoming a place you can get your SS sport Rolex within a predictable time frame or you can wait (likely) indefinitely at your local AD

[johnnyjazz]

With the prices of Rolex watches all over the shop now, does anyone have any idea what an AD does about inventory prices, ie for stock insurance wise. If as an AD you pay Rolex £100k for watches that can be sold for £160k what do you insure them for and how much value is on your stock sheet, wonder what greys do in this case as well.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Ballzzz

lol i'm just a youngster please don't hate me lol

Well as you guys have so many social media issues to deal with I don't really envy you. Glad I was born just too late to get really caught up in it.

[Roll the Lex]

It's simple.
If you can benefit from an AD or grey you love them.
If you can't you hate them.

[ProdigalGil]

Deep down if the price was right, who on earth would not like a watch brand new.

While we all like the journey of finding the right preown, waiting for the right piece to pop up on eBay or chrono, do all the due diligence, it’s a sh*t scary prospect to laid down several grand over the net.

For example, I recently wanted a piece which I could not find the right price with the right trust worthy due dillegneced seller, and managed to find it at a grey. While it’s an 10year old watch, it was Unwore brand new, with 30% off msrp...certainly discontinued from the manufacturer as well as not a common prenown model.

I cannot knock the grey for having it in their vault.

My first Rolex was also from the grey (with 1 store just set up), just after Rolex raised their price 2 years ago, DJII with fluted bezel shot up to £6750. Too inexperienced to buy preown and wanted new at least my first time, and didn’t want to paid MSRP, I went to the grey...2 weeks later and it was Cash on Delivery, so no need for risky deposit on PayPal, I have a brand new DJII where the Warranty Card was from an Rolex AD in Italy, which I googled on the spot. Grey again.

As the skydrweller was recently consider in my mind as I am not one who likes to wait 1 year for a regular model non vintage piece, I gave up on the Hulk, Batman....grey is marking up 15k (50% Mark Up) again MSRP on the SkyD....might as well go to Rolex for this example.

Always depends on the piece, but grey is just another channel to have in meeting the needs of people and selective timepiece.

Go Grey!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Silvio_86]

The problem is not ADs selling to greys or greys selling with huge markup. They are both doing their game. The real problem is rolex with this game of not giving the watches. I think they understood they were becoming a cheap brand, so they constrained supply to raise the prices and brand luxury level. If all the watches were available at any AD, there wouldn't be any problem for us, but it would be a problem for the brand itself. This is the problem of supply and demand in the marketing era.

[Ballzzz]

Originally Posted by AK797

Well as you guys have so many social media issues to deal with I don't really envy you. Glad I was born just too late to get really caught up in it.

Young by age but old mind, no social media here other than LinkedIn if that’s considered social media. I hate it for personal reasons but think it’s great to grow a business. I feel bad for my generation and the unnamed generation, these kids are socially inept and cannot conversate or detach from there devices.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by johnnyjazz

With the prices of Rolex watches all over the shop now, does anyone have any idea what an AD does about inventory prices, ie for stock insurance wise. If as an AD you pay Rolex £100k for watches that can be sold for £160k what do you insure them for and how much value is on your stock sheet, wonder what greys do in this case as well.

No premiums on wholesale prices, so they're still paying same Rolex prices at the ADs profit margins should be fixed unless they're one of the ADs allowing some premium pricing policy. ADs make more money now bc they can drive purchasers towards higher margin models in addition. That in effect is their premium realized/profited independent of secondary market seller premiums.

[rexG]

supply and demand. simple.

[Ballzzz]

Has anything changed?

[DoctorA]

Totally agree and I said it in other threads, the rules of the “game” we can either play along or pick a different hobby!

[Michigan_State]

I don‘t agree to these arguments
- it‘s capitalism, face it
- we, the customers drive this

Rolex presumably assigns quotas for not-in-demand pieces, which AD‘s sell off in packages with in-demand watches via Gray‘s, crippling the market.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by Ballzzz

"Don't hate the player, Hate the game"

This anti grey movement around here recently has me scratching my head. When the grey's were consistently below MSRP you all loved them. Now supply/demand has shifted and you hate them.

In my humble opinion the greys are not the problem. Here's why!

ALL ROLEX WATCHES GO FROM PRODUCTION FACILITY TO AD'S!

I place the bulk of the blame on Rolex not controlling there dealer network. Not using any popular grey names here but lets just say joesgwatches.com ALWAYS has the hottest newest models, as do all other greys.

Why might you ask? Because they have relationships with AD's and the AD's make 5/10 watch sales with one call probably over MSRP and old stock gone. That's the issue, but its a double edged sword.

The market is good now and AD's can't get enough watches to sell BUT when that's not the case if they sever relationships with Grey's they will be crying to Rolex that they can't meet quotas.

Greys serve a purpose and now its frowned upon but at some point it will be welcomed, as is life. Don't hate the Greys they provide a service and make a profit, god bless America!

I have always took the simple approach to not purchase over MSRP and figure out getting a watch on my own terms. Some don't mind paying the premium and getting what they want when they want it, kudos to the Grey for providing that service. It's very easy as a consumer to vote with your wallet.

Am I somewhat frustrated I can't go buy a batman today for instant gratification, I guess. But as the phys majors will tell you if that's the case the batman would be more like robin!

I am not defending the Grey's I am defending capitalism, and anyone who has the guts to be in business!

ok

[reeko]

Originally Posted by ap1

for the pics or didn’t happen crew. I have a very generous friend who basically saves it for my visits!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How does this compare to other bourbons? I can have some of it at my local bar, but it's $50 a shot! So I don't know if its worth it heh.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[Gary.]

There's a difference between blaming the Grey Market and blaming Grey Dealers. Personally, I reserve the bulk of my ire for the ADs who are feeding the Grey Dealers while, at the same time, telling their customers that the problems are being caused by Rolex reducing supply.

To blame Rolex for not doing anything about them seems a little odd considering how much bitching and whining we've seen since Rolex started trying to do exactly that.

[Solo118]

No reason to hate them, they are trying to make a living. The important thing to know is that they are not buying a 116500 for MSRP and asking $30k, they have a higher cost so hence the higher sell price is passed on to us.

As for me, this is just my thinking but if I see something available and I am comfortable paying the price if it is less than MSRP, at MSRP or more than MSRP I will go for it. If not (and it has not been in a while!) I will sit it out and wait for something to come my way at a price I am comfortable paying.

[Cambo]

I’m enjoying a BLRO right now because of grey. I have the money, I paid the price. I’m OK with that. That said, I’m always checking in with my AD. If they can’t help me, well then.....

[Cambo]

Originally Posted by reeko

How does this compare to other bourbons? I can have some of it at my local bar, but it's $50 a shot! So I don't know if its worth it heh.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

I’m slowly draining my 20 year bottle. I’ll save the last bit for when I sell my company.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by Cambo

I’m enjoying a BLRO right now because of grey. I have the money, I paid the price. I’m OK with that. That said, I’m always checking in with my AD. If they can’t help me, well then.....

Grey Pepsi brethren says hi

Go grey or go grey trying.

[AF_Rob]

Originally Posted by yxc145

I don't hate grey dealers. I refuse to pay over MSRP. So it is not a problem for me.

Me too. I don't play the game.