How safe is Paypal

[newbee1]

I'm getting an offer from a seller off ebay via paypal invoice for a DD. Its a good deal but I wonder what are my chances of getting scammed as a buyer? And if I get scammed, how much Paypal will help me? Is it as secure as Ebay?


Appreciate your help.

[promithius]

Do not deal outside of eBay is always my advice.

[jvmartin]

Its not worth the money saved... you actually have more protection when you go through ebay...

[vinzbee]

And if you're using PayPal, use a CC to fund so you also have that additional layer

[enigmad]

Originally Posted by vinzbee

And if you're using PayPal, use a CC to fund so you also have that additional layer

Agreed. Had someone on Ebay try to scam me and I paid with PP with AMEX backing me up. Seller told PP they shipped and gave phony shipping info so Paypal closed the case, even tho there was no evidence of delivery (pkg wasnt even shipped to the right city/state). AMEX immediately refunded me my $$. Paypal support was a joke.

[freefly]

Originally Posted by newbee1

I'm getting an offer from a seller off ebay via paypal invoice for a DD. Its a good deal but I wonder what are my chances of getting scammed as a buyer? And if I get scammed, how much Paypal will help me? Is it as secure as Ebay?

Appreciate your help.

As a buyer, it's probably safest/best to keep it all through eBay. If going through PayPal direct (outside of eBay), just make sure the transaction is initiated via the "goods and services" option, and not via the "friends and family" option.
Have the seller send you a detailed invoice, with the watch description and SN. Log on to PayPal directly (not via an email link) to view it and only pay with a CC, not a bank account transfer.

Personally though, I'd really only consider it from an established seller with plenty of feedback. I'd also want to speak with them on the phone prior to payment (no VOIP numbers), to make sure both parties were on the same page, with no red flags raised. Additional due-diliegence can't hurt either. Ask them if they are members of any watch forums (that you can message them on), message them via Linked-in, call them at their place of business, etc.

[newbee1]

Originally Posted by promithius

Do not deal outside of eBay is always my advice.

Originally Posted by jvmartin

Its not worth the money saved... you actually have more protection when you go through ebay...

Originally Posted by vinzbee

And if you're using PayPal, use a CC to fund so you also have that additional layer

Originally Posted by enigmad

Agreed. Had someone on Ebay try to scam me and I paid with PP with AMEX backing me up. Seller told PP they shipped and gave phony shipping info so Paypal closed the case, even tho there was no evidence of delivery (pkg wasnt even shipped to the right city/state). AMEX immediately refunded me my $$. Paypal support was a joke.

Originally Posted by freefly

As a buyer, it's probably safest/best to keep it all through eBay. If going through PayPal direct (outside of eBay), just make sure the transaction is initiated via the "goods and services" option, and not via the "friends and family" option.
Have the seller send you a detailed invoice, with the watch description and SN. Log on to PayPal directly (not via an email link) to view it and only pay with a CC, not a bank account transfer.

Personally though, I'd really only consider it from an established seller with plenty of feedback. I'd also want to speak with them on the phone prior to payment (no VOIP numbers), to make sure both parties were on the same page, with no red flags raised. Additional due-diliegence can't hurt either. Ask them if they are members of any watch forums (that you can message them on), message them via Linked-in, call them at their place of business, etc.

So I did some research for the email from which I got the invoice and seems like seller is legit as he owns a small business in Indiana. I also pulled phone numbers of that business in case of any mishap. I called Paypal to figure out if his account has any pending cases etc and so far they assured me everything is fine. I'm also planning to place mail hold and collect the box myself and open it up in the mail office itself so that I have people around me in case he sends me something else than the watch.

The only thing which is not covered is if he sends the watch to different state as enigmad mentioned. I asked Paypal about this scenario and they said I'm protected but not sure if they'll really take my side.

My paypal has my Amex card attached to it and no bank account. Also seller included all the details of the watch including serial number details (he mentioned serial starts from LXXXXXX, so he didn't include the full number)and model number. also claimed its 100% authentic.

Do you think I'm still at risk ?

[freefly]

Originally Posted by newbee1

So I did some research for the email from which I got the invoice and seems like seller is legit as he owns a small business in Indiana. I also pulled phone numbers of that business in case of any mishap. I called Paypal to figure out if his account has any pending cases etc and so far they assured me everything is fine. I'm also planning to place mail hold and collect the box myself and open it up in the mail office itself so that I have people around me in case he sends me something else than the watch.

The only thing which is not covered is if he sends the watch to different state as enigmad mentioned. I asked Paypal about this scenario and they said I'm protected but not sure if they'll really take my side.

My paypal has my Amex card attached to it and no bank account. Also seller included all the details of the watch including serial number details (he mentioned serial starts from LXXXXXX, so he didn't include the full number)and model number. also claimed its 100% authentic.

Do you think I'm still at risk ?

IMO, there will always be some element of risk in these types of transactions. That said, it sounds like you've done your best at mitigating most of those risks. Using a CC with PayPal adds another layer of fraud protection as well. I'd still want to speak on the phone to get a "read" on the guy, and verify all the details (costs, shipping method, included items, etc.). If his eBay feedback is solid, and he has a history of selling high-dollar watches, that's also a plus.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by newbee1

So I did some research for the email from which I got the invoice and seems like seller is legit as he owns a small business in Indiana. I also pulled phone numbers of that business in case of any mishap. I called Paypal to figure out if his account has any pending cases etc and so far they assured me everything is fine. I'm also planning to place mail hold and collect the box myself and open it up in the mail office itself so that I have people around me in case he sends me something else than the watch.

The only thing which is not covered is if he sends the watch to different state as enigmad mentioned. I asked Paypal about this scenario and they said I'm protected but not sure if they'll really take my side.

My paypal has my Amex card attached to it and no bank account. Also seller included all the details of the watch including serial number details (he mentioned serial starts from LXXXXXX, so he didn't include the full number)and model number. also claimed its 100% authentic.

Do you think I'm still at risk ?

I too believe you are 99% safe. You have covered all the angles. If the seller has a "bricks and mortar" establishment you are well covered

A

[newbee1]

Originally Posted by freefly

IMO, there will always be some element of risk in these types of transactions. That said, it sounds like you've done your best at mitigating most of those risks. Using a CC with PayPal adds another layer of fraud protection as well. I'd still want to speak on the phone to get a "read" on the guy, and verify all the details (costs, shipping method, included items, etc.). If his eBay feedback is solid, and he has a history of selling high-dollar watches, that's also a plus.

He has 76 feedbacks and that too for not very high dollar items. I'll ask his phone number to talk. I did ask him to send me couple of pics of the watch which were not in the listing to make sure he didn't use stolen pics.

[77T]

Since eBay and PayPal are no longer linked by common ownership, the only thing you forfeit is eBay guarantee against counterfeit goods. PayPal invoicing is as safe as sellers reputation. If you deal with a good seller then no problem. But deals can go south quickly and PayPal has no power if seller produces evidence of fulfillment.

I’d just as soon deal with a trusted seller here.


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[newbee1]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

I too believe you are 99% safe. You have covered all the angles. If the seller has a "bricks and mortar" establishment you are well covered

A

He owns a consulting (strategy building) for the past 14-15 years, so hopefully his address is correct online.

[newbee1]

Originally Posted by 77T

Since eBay and PayPal are no longer linked by common ownership, the only thing you forfeit is eBay guarantee against counterfeit goods. PayPal invoicing is as safe as sellers reputation. If you deal with a good seller then no problem. But deals can go south quickly and PayPal has no power if seller produces evidence of fulfillment.

I’d just as soon deal with a trusted seller here.


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Well.. its bit scary. And proof of fulfillment can be anywhere like delivered in different state as enigmad mentioned.

[77T]

Originally Posted by newbee1

Well.. its bit scary. And proof of fulfillment can be anywhere like delivered in different state as enigmad mentioned.

Are you locked into the deal?

If not, have you decided against TRF trusted seller route?



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[newbee1]

Originally Posted by 77T

Are you locked into the deal?

If not, have you decided against TRF trusted seller route?



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I'm not locked in the deal yet, its just his price is right. I look into for sale section in TRF everyday but most of the times either their prices are high or only only accept bank transfer which again is scary .

[freefly]

Originally Posted by newbee1

He owns a consulting (strategy building) for the past 14-15 years, so hopefully his address is correct online.

If it's a legitimate business, it should have an online presence, along with contact info. You should be able to Google the biz name and come up with a phone number that you can call during business hours.

Also, I'd be curious as to how you arrived at an offer outside of eBay. Was it unsolicited? Did/does he have the watch listed and you contacted him? How did it transpire?
If it is/was listed, would you care to share a link? That may be helpful at identifying any red flags.

[newbee1]

Originally Posted by freefly

If it's a legitimate business, it should have an online presence, along with contact info. You should be able to Google the biz name and come up with a phone number that you can call during business hours.

Also, I'd be curious as to how you arrived at an offer outside of eBay. Was it unsolicited? Did/does he have the watch listed and you contacted him? How did it transpire? Also, if it is/was listed, would you care to share a link? That may be helpful at identifying any red flags.

I placed a bid on his watch but didn't win. He later on contacted me saying that the winning buyer walked out and wanted to check if I'm interested. I gave him a low ball offer and he accepted but stressed on Paypal which I agreed but something is stopping me to make the payment. Watch looks ok IMO. I'll post the link shortly.

Also, his business has home address and wix website.

[elcompa]

Another thing to do may be to check the company record through Better Business Beaurau. Also, ask for a copy of his driver's license. I have done this before for additional confidence. You can then also check to see who lives at the residence noted in his DL. With all this, it sounds as if you have done your DD.

[77T]

Originally Posted by newbee1

I'm not locked in the deal yet, its just his price is right. I look into for sale section in TRF everyday but most of the times either their prices are high or only only accept bank transfer which again is scary .

Originally Posted by newbee1

I placed a bid on his watch but didn't win. He later on contacted me saying that the winning buyer walked out and wanted to check if I'm interested. I gave him a low ball offer and he accepted but stressed on Paypal which I agreed but something is stopping me to make the payment. Watch looks ok IMO. I'll post the link shortly.

Also, his business has home address and wix website.

OK I get it better now.

Let’s break down one way to avoid a catastrophe.

First thing is to link the actual watch in the eBay listing to the guy sending you the email invoice. This way we eliminate a hijacker playing a “man in the middle” scam.

Ask the seller to set the watch to 3:20 for Tuesday the 15th. And to take a picture of it resting on a plain white sheet of paper with his eBay ID in pencil. Obviously a hijacker doesn’t have the watch.

Let him know you only need some validation.

If he passes the test then the risk is the percent of $$$ you’re saving against the entire amount your paying. If it’s 5% then it’s not worth dealing with someone who may flake out on you.

For example, I PayPal’d over $20K for a race car roller and the guys ex-wife logged into the account and poof - it was gone. Took 8 hours on phone with PayPal and sheriffs dept but she surrendered the funds. So I do know both sides of the equation.

For 5% I’d deal with known quantities on TRF. Just my



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[hsfrank]

Originally Posted by newbee1

I placed a bid on his watch but didn't win. He later on contacted me saying that the winning buyer walked out and wanted to check if I'm interested. I gave him a low ball offer and he accepted but stressed on Paypal which I agreed but something is stopping me to make the payment. Watch looks ok IMO. I'll post the link shortly.

Also, his business has home address and wix website.

These are all danger signals. Beware. Usually second bidding offers are not done offline. Further why would he accept a low ball?

[jcs2000]

An unsolicited purchase offer outside eBay can be risky. That being said using PayPal with a AMEX funding source is especially safe. Some sellers do want to avoid the eBay transaction fees. If you are still concerned, ask him to relist the watch on eBay with a buy-it-now option at your agreed price. He may require a price increase to cover this. U will get refunded if anything goes wrong when buying through eBay AND paying with PayPal using a credit card funding source.

[MinMay]

good info....

[newbee1]

So I asked the seller to set the watch at 3:20 for Tuesday the 15th. I explained him nicely that that it’s just for validation as it’s an online purchase. And guess what happened??? He cancelled the invoice.

There can be three reason he cancelled:

A) he got offended by the request (very unlikely)
B) He didn’t have the watch and wanted to scam me
C) he didn’t like my face as I have my pic in my google profile with a crazy laugh.🤪

I’m going with (c)


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[newbee1]

Originally Posted by hsfrank

These are all danger signals. Beware. Usually second bidding offers are not done offline. Further why would he accept a low ball?

I guess that’s why I wasn’t comfortable in making the payment. I wasn’t the second highest bidder either. Guess after my questions he realized I won’t be scammed. Looks like he hacked the account.


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[newbee1]

Originally Posted by 77T

OK I get it better now.

Let’s break down one way to avoid a catastrophe.

First thing is to link the actual watch in the eBay listing to the guy sending you the email invoice. This way we eliminate a hijacker playing a “man in the middle” scam.

Ask the seller to set the watch to 3:20 for Tuesday the 15th. And to take a picture of it resting on a plain white sheet of paper with his eBay ID in pencil. Obviously a hijacker doesn’t have the watch.

Let him know you only need some validation.

If he passes the test then the risk is the percent of $$$ you’re saving against the entire amount your paying. If it’s 5% then it’s not worth dealing with someone who may flake out on you.

For example, I PayPal’d over $20K for a race car roller and the guys ex-wife logged into the account and poof - it was gone. Took 8 hours on phone with PayPal and sheriffs dept but she surrendered the funds. So I do know both sides of the equation.

For 5% I’d deal with known quantities on TRF. Just my



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He didn’t pass the test, thanks for your advice. He seems like a scammer. I’ll keep looking here.



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[benji19]

I buy and sell quite a bit off of eBay, either way if I buy or sell I always do a detailed bill of sale, write an invoice, always use goods and services on PP, and I usually get a picture of their ID (I send mine as well after they send there's). I haven't had any hiccups with it so far and I have probably purchased 50 pieces like this.

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[Max16013]

Pretty easy to chargeback via paypal
You'd have little recourse

[77T]

Originally Posted by newbee1

He didn’t pass the test, thanks for your advice. He seems like a scammer. I’ll keep looking here.



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I was reading through the post you made and that’s a good thing for maybe many reasons. Good for you.

Much success in getting one soon.



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[newbee1]

Originally Posted by 77T

I was reading through the post you made and that’s a good thing for maybe many reasons. Good for you.

Much success in getting one soon.



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Thank you very much, appreciate all your help.

[newbee1]

Thanks to all of you who contributed and helped me to figure out the pros and cons of this deal. In the end, I didn't complete this transaction and seems like seller is trying to scam as he never provided extra pics of the watch. My hunt is still on and will update if I find my HG watch. Thanks again