How much do "papers & box" affect the price of a watch?

[subsurface]

What price percentage, if any, would "papers & box" make to your Rolex purchase? Would you buy a grail if it had no documents?

[Mystro]

It's worth a $1k or more deduction on trade in if you don't have a full set of box, papers, warranty card, instructions. everything. $500.00 deduction on trade in for a classic Rolex older than 20 years.

[JP Chestnut]

It totally depends on the watch. The difference can be well into the five figures for something rare and old.

I personally wouldn't touch a new'ish watch that's not a full set.

[ras47]

Not only is it worth $1000 or more, but it can mean the difference between a sale and no sale.

[mannyv11]

if you're buying a watch from someone that doesn't have papers it isn't that big of a deal. On the other hand if you're trying to sell your watch to the same seller it all of a sudden is a huge deal and worth a minimum of 1k.

[Nairn1980]

Originally Posted by mannyv11

if you're buying a watch from someone that doesn't have papers it isn't that big of a deal. On the other hand if you're trying to sell your watch to the same seller it all of a sudden is a huge deal and worth a minimum of 1k.

Exactly what I was going to say

[faldoc]

I think I wouldn't buy one without the accessories since they add to the enjoyment of ownership.

Completeness.

They add a bit of authenticity.

I figure it's worth a few hundred in actual value.

[904VT]

I would buy a vintage (and authenticated) piece without papers. Especially, considering them probably being on the 3rd or 4th owner.

I find it a bit odd though if a modern piece doesn't have papers in such a short period since a model left an AD. Enough so to make me concerned how well the rest of the watch was taken care of, if papers could be misplaced so quickly after purchase.

[gates]

Pan is virtually unsellable without full kit, the fakes are too good

[sensui]

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

It totally depends on the watch. The difference can be well into the five figures for something rare and old.

I personally wouldn't touch a new'ish watch that's not a full set.

The correct answer.

[DocHorton]

To me it makes a huge difference. The extra money spent will come back to you if you ever decide to sell. I have bought without boxes and papers before and have regretted it when I couldn't resell easily, I won't ever do it again. The discount has to be very steep to be worth it, IMO.

And no, I would never buy a grail without a complete set.

[henrylee]

It shouldn't matter if you're keeping the piece. But if your into flipping then box and papers help.

[Rolex addict]

Originally Posted by mannyv11

if you're buying a watch from someone that doesn't have papers it isn't that big of a deal. On the other hand if you're trying to sell your watch to the same seller it all of a sudden is a huge deal and worth a minimum of 1k.

Spot on. Been there and done that. Decided to keep it. Glad I did. It eventually grew on me and is now part of the rotation.

[The Libertine]

I agree that the box, booklets, tags, etc. do help to complete the package.

But they do little for proving authenticity. For that, you could - and should send to RSC for a service, and it would be returned with the 2-year warranty card verifying service date, model and serial number.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by The Libertine

I agree that the box, booklets, tags, etc. do help to complete the package.

But they do little for proving authenticity. For that, you could - and should send to RSC for a service, and it would be returned with the 2-year warranty card verifying service date, model and serial number.

Exacty myself always buy condition and not a out dated warranty because that's all it is,as for the box well I don't wear the box.

[Jocke]

I pay $2K extra for this full set.

[dafuture]

Originally Posted by henrylee

It shouldn't matter if you're keeping the piece. But if your into flipping then box and papers help.

This is 100% the truth. I bought my Exp I without a box or papers (but from a trusted seller) simply because I knew I'd never sell.

[FTX I]

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

I personally wouldn't touch a new'ish watch that's not a full set.

Originally Posted by sensui

The correct answer.

I'm on this camp as well, but there are exceptions. If you come across a watch (only) you want at a good price and your watchmaker is ready to authenticate and service it, why not..

[JP Chestnut]

Originally Posted by FTX I

I'm on this camp as well, but there are exceptions. If you come across a watch (only) you want at a good price and your watchmaker is ready to authenticate and service it, why not..

It's not authenticity that bothers me. You can always insist on paypal and then send it to an RSC to verify - totally safe. It's that there are sooooo many complete sets floating around. Modern watches are like buses.

If someone offered me a huge discount for an orphaned watch, I'd probably get it. However, genuinely good deals are few and far between on the forums.

[wrist_watcher]

Since my grail watch is a modern reference, I will buy new and expect all the accessories that come with a new watch.

[sensui]

Originally Posted by FTX I

I'm on this camp as well, but there are exceptions. If you come across a watch (only) you want at a good price and your watchmaker is ready to authenticate and service it, why not..

Yeah I'd once again echo similar sentiments to JP Chestnut.....there are just far too many used modern Rolex around and I haven't seen a "steal" just because it's without papers/box...if it was thousands less maybe but we're often talking about hundreds.....but sure, I guess if someone would sell a modern Rolex for thousands less, I'd bite and verify on my own....

Vintage on the other hand, I have no problem buying without box/papers when the right watch comes along if the price is right....because with most hot vintage references, boxes/papers we're talking about thousands in price difference.

[JP Chestnut]

Originally Posted by sensui

Yeah I'd once again echo similar sentiments to JP Chestnut.....there are just far too many used modern Rolex around and I haven't seen a "steal" just because it's without papers/box...if it was thousands less maybe but we're often talking about hundreds.....but sure, I guess if someone would sell a modern Rolex for thousands less, I'd bite and verify on my own....

Vintage on the other hand, I have no problem buying without box/papers when the right watch comes along if the price is right....because with most hot vintage references, boxes/papers we're talking about thousands in price difference.

I don't really trust the vintage box/papers either. As you say, huge differences in cost with and without. There is more than enough incentive to put together a "set" with some questionable papers.

Unless the pedigree is beyond question, I'm dubious.

[FTX I]

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

It's not authenticity that bothers me. You can always insist on paypal and then send it to an RSC to verify - totally safe. It's that there are sooooo many complete sets floating around. Modern watches are like buses.

If someone offered me a huge discount for an orphaned watch, I'd probably get it. However, genuinely good deals are few and far between on the forums.

New pieces I agree, but we are on the market playing this game my friend. You said something absolutely true a time ago. The best deals are not with trusted sellers or anything like that but from friends and watch guys like us. Trusted seller's asking prices are not the market value. The real value is the price they pay. When people know we're watch guys many extraordinary things happen, but we must have our watchmaker ready for the the job and keep our minds open.

[donut]

Originally Posted by ras47

Not only is it worth $1000 or more, but it can mean the difference between a sale and no sale.

Yes, some serious collectors could refuse to buy watches without documents.
Sometimes, It's hard to estimate the price of those papers.

[Chewbacca]

10 - 15% to those who must have them on non vintage...

up to 50% on vintage.

[subsurface]

Here's the reason I asked the question: Recently made the decision to acquire two additional Rolex and sell my herd of Doxa divers to try and subsidize the move. The target watches were 1) the very illustrious and reclusive GMT II master 16710B M-series stick w/ 3186, and the second watch in the transition is a no-date mate to my A-series Submariner 2-line Swiss only. This no-date would be my daily beater, and I won't miss setting the date, so paper, eh, not so important. Be happy to get a $1k+ bump in my direction for a watch-only deal on this watch.

But the "stick" - for me it's had to be all the way with papers, card and box, and cherry condition. And it cost me. But it's an heirloom piece. If it were a daily beater, gonna wear 90% of the time, specs of the "stick" etc. without papers/box, it would need to offer a lower price point - (much) more than $1k - in this case of this particular watch.

Originally Posted by subsurface

What price percentage, if any, would "papers & box" make to your Rolex purchase? Would you buy a grail if it had no documents?

[Mick P]

Chaps

You can get a watch maker to verify your Rolex.

What he cannot do is verify paperwork and cards because fakes are 99.99% impossible to detect.

There are thousands of guys around the world sitting on a full set and although the watch may be genuine, the papers are fake. They cost little to produce and up the value of a watch by a lot of money. They are produced by the thousands and are everywhere.

Simple question to the chaps who bought a watch that came with papers - have you actually had the papers checked for accuracy ?

If not, you are rather trusting, if you have, the dealer will look at it and almost certainly say yes it's ok because he cannot detect a fake.

Either way, you may well have paid over the odds thanks to a fake paper.

Not very sensible is it.

Regards

Mick

[springer]

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

It totally depends on the watch. The difference can be well into the five figures for something rare and old.

I personally wouldn't touch a new'ish watch that's not a full set.

I would agree with the other JP. Many factors when considering what value it adds to the complete package.

jP

[springer]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

10 - 15% to those who must have them on non vintage...

up to 50% on vintage.

X2. This seems very much to be "in the ballpark" percentages from my experience.

[Etschell]

Depends on the watch.