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Old 5 November 2017, 12:59 AM   #1
DHC8
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1984-1989 Rolex 5513 dial question

Just did some research online about the later WG dial 5513, from the pictures I found it looks like it may have 2 different type of gloss WG dial around. One with open 6 for the 660 ft and other is close 6.

Are both correct dial? if so, why and when did Rolex change the design?




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Old 5 November 2017, 02:51 AM   #2
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Every model Rolex has variations on the dials from time-to-time.
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Old 5 November 2017, 07:08 AM   #3
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I've not seen much in the way of research on the late gloss 5513 dials but from what I have seen and looking at old dials for sale there do appear to be two types.

The first is the open 6 dial which would have been from the introduction of the gloss dials around 84/85 and the second appears around 1987 with the closed 6 and ran up to the end of 5513 production in 89.

There is also the service dial which has a different font for Submariner (with a noticeable "line" at the right of the top of the letter A). I've only ever seen the service dial with a SWISS marking at the bottom unlike 1680 White service dials that had T<25 or SWISS. I've seen a few 1960's and 70's 5513's with the late gloss dials in them as replacements, so suspect (but can't prove) that these late original gloss dials were used as service replacements by RSC's in the mid to late 80's and the SWISS service dial was introduced after production of the 5513 ceased.

I tried to post example photo's of the two original and the service dial but unfortunately the shots I have are too big to post direct. I'll see if I can resize and post again later.

Because most interest in 5513's lies with Gilt, original gloss and matt dials, there isn't much research on the late gloss dials, so any further info or correction of my post welcome
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Old 5 November 2017, 07:52 AM   #4
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Photo's of open and closed 6 dials attached, sorry they are not particularly clear.
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File Type: jpg IMG_0838.JPG (67.5 KB, 718 views)
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Old 5 November 2017, 08:23 AM   #5
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The easiest way to ascertain the dial variations is the coronet printed on the dial - it is much easier to see with the naked eye than closed and open numbers.

The later 5513 has the fatter, more squat coronet. This is the same coronet style found on the GMTs, Submariners and probably some other models from the same era.

The first generation dial has a coronet that is thinner than the coronet on the later dials.

The second photo posted by Stevedssd depicts the last variation of the 5513 gloss dial with the fatter/squat coronet.

As a footnote, production did not end in 1989 for the 5513 - it went well into 1992.
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Old 5 November 2017, 10:11 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springer View Post
The easiest way to ascertain the dial variations is the coronet printed on the dial - it is much easier to see with the naked eye than closed and open numbers.

The later 5513 has the fatter, more squat coronet. This is the same coronet style found on the GMTs, Submariners and probably some other models from the same era.

The first generation dial has a coronet that is thinner than the coronet on the later dials.

The second photo posted by Stevedssd depicts the last variation of the 5513 gloss dial with the fatter/squat coronet.

As a footnote, production did not end in 1989 for the 5513 - it went well into 1992.
Great knowledge as always Springer and I didn't realise that the production of 5513's went as far into the 90's
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Old 6 November 2017, 12:46 AM   #7
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Thank you Sir! nice photos BTW.

I do have a 1987 5513 with close 6, it look the same in your pic.

and for the early service dial, what do you mean by a "line" on top on the A?

like this ---------------
SUBMARINER ?

Thanks again
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Old 6 November 2017, 01:14 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springer View Post
The easiest way to ascertain the dial variations is the coronet printed on the dial - it is much easier to see with the naked eye than closed and open numbers.

The later 5513 has the fatter, more squat coronet. This is the same coronet style found on the GMTs, Submariners and probably some other models from the same era.

The first generation dial has a coronet that is thinner than the coronet on the later dials.

The second photo posted by Stevedssd depicts the last variation of the 5513 gloss dial with the fatter/squat coronet.

As a footnote, production did not end in 1989 for the 5513 - it went well into 1992.

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Old 6 November 2017, 03:52 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLRIDES View Post
Too many folks seem to use the introduction of a new model, in this case the 14060 in 1989, with the absolute cut-off date of the previous model, the 5513.

This is seldom the case with Rolex and previous models were often released concurrently with new models. Logistics would actually make an absolute cut-off date impossible.
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Old 6 November 2017, 04:45 AM   #10
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IMHO, there are 2 different types with the open 6...

https://www.rolexforums.com/attachme...1&d=1509907463
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Old 6 November 2017, 04:46 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLRIDES View Post
They were made as late as the "E" serial numbers which places it into 91/92 production.

My "L" serial 5513 set was shipped from Rolex USA to the dealer during 1991 based on the red date stamping found on the back of the USA warranty paper.
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Old 6 November 2017, 05:43 AM   #12
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I can understand distribution/sales of previous models until inventory depletion, but it’s hard to imagine simultaneous production of 5513 and 14060 models.

Wouldn’t an “L” serial indicate ‘89(ish) production ?
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Old 6 November 2017, 07:06 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GB2 View Post
IMHO, there are 2 different types with the open 6...

https://www.rolexforums.com/attachme...1&d=1509907463
I think you are right.........

The one you have posted on the left is the same as the open six I posted above, the right hand one is different as you have pointed out. Standout differences are the T in ft aligned and not aligned to the F and the T in T<25 located further under the 6 plot in one version than the other.

I looked at some dials previously for sale and the closed 6 dial is marked with the B of the dial manufacturer Beyeler. The open 6 dial I checked has the S and star marking of Stern, but at that time I didn't realise there are likely two open six dials so not sure if one or both were made by Stern.

Following up on the previous question about the service dial I've attached some photo's below which may or may not be the right way up! SUBMARINER has a noticeably different font to the other dials and it is marked Rolex on the back.


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File Type: jpg IMG_0904.jpg (140.7 KB, 624 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0906.jpg (184.4 KB, 615 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0907.jpg (290.0 KB, 612 views)
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Old 6 November 2017, 09:17 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevedssd View Post
I think you are right.........

The one you have posted on the left is the same as the open six I posted above, the right hand one is different as you have pointed out. Standout differences are the T in ft aligned and not aligned to the F and the T in T<25 located further under the 6 plot in one version than the other.

I looked at some dials previously for sale and the closed 6 dial is marked with the B of the dial manufacturer Beyeler. The open 6 dial I checked has the S and star marking of Stern, but at that time I didn't realise there are likely two open six dials so not sure if one or both were made by Stern.

Following up on the previous question about the service dial I've attached some photo's below which may or may not be the right way up! SUBMARINER has a noticeably different font to the other dials and it is marked Rolex on the back.


Thanks

On my post, I think that the dial (on the right) with Open 6 and ft not aligned is a SINGER dial but sorry, I have no pics...

Could you please show us pics (front and rear) of the closed 6 dial (BEYELER) and the Open 6 (STERN) ?

Your last pic is IMHO a BEYELER (Rolex 2 376)...

To be continued...
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Old 6 November 2017, 09:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLRIDES View Post
I can understand distribution/sales of previous models until inventory depletion, but it’s hard to imagine simultaneous production of 5513 and 14060 models.

Wouldn’t an “L” serial indicate ‘89(ish) production ?
We were discussing the final production year of the 5513 a few months ago in this thread: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...ight=5513+1989

From about nine posts in to post 16.
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Old 7 November 2017, 01:25 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLRIDES View Post
I can understand distribution/sales of previous models until inventory depletion, but it’s hard to imagine simultaneous production of 5513 and 14060 models.

Wouldn’t an “L” serial indicate ‘89(ish) production ?
No it does not. Sorry.
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Old 7 November 2017, 07:59 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast View Post
We were discussing the final production year of the 5513 a few months ago in this thread: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...ight=5513+1989

From about nine posts in to post 16.
The attached link is really interesting, showing a 5513 with an E25++++ serial number and later production than I had previously realised. It's nice to see interest in the late 5513's, mine is L340+++
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Old 7 November 2017, 08:04 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GB2 View Post
Thanks

On my post, I think that the dial (on the right) with Open 6 and ft not aligned is a SINGER dial but sorry, I have no pics...

Could you please show us pics (front and rear) of the closed 6 dial (BEYELER) and the Open 6 (STERN) ?

Your last pic is IMHO a BEYELER (Rolex 2 376)...

To be continued...
Yes this is getting quite interesting

I'll post some images tomorrow after I have finished painting and decorating and kept Mrs DSSD happy
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Old 7 November 2017, 11:05 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by stevedssd View Post
The attached link is really interesting, showing a 5513 with an E25++++ serial number and later production than I had previously realised. It's nice to see interest in the late 5513's, mine is L340+++
Mine is L341xxx. Here it is with its replacement dial installed by the RSC here in 2013, for your reference. They said it was the last one they had.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 5513 dial.JPG (207.0 KB, 542 views)
File Type: jpg 5513 wrist.jpg (192.1 KB, 537 views)
File Type: jpg 5513.JPG (171.5 KB, 540 views)
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Old 7 November 2017, 07:07 PM   #20
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Mine is L341xxx. Here it is with its replacement dial installed by the RSC here in 2013, for your reference. They said it was the last one they had.
Thanks Adam, it was the photo's you published of yours with the rubber strap a little while ago that made me look at late 5513's as an alternative to a 14060 which I was originally looking for.
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Old 7 November 2017, 08:33 PM   #21
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Thanks Adam, it was the photo's you published of yours with the rubber strap a little while ago that made me look at late 5513's as an alternative to a 14060 which I was originally looking for.
Good choice
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Old 8 November 2017, 08:22 AM   #22
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Further to the various posts on the late 5513 Gloss Dials, it looks there are three different types.

As pointed out by GB2, there are two dials with Open 6's, and their comparison photo's above show the differences. An obvious difference is the printing of FT, where one dial has the F and T horizontally aligned and the other where the horizontal line in T is higher than in F.

Looking at a range of these dials on line, they all have the same markings on the back of the dials - a letter S and a star, which I understand to be marks of the Stern dial manufacturer.

So both Open 6 dials are made by the same manufacturer and have a similar design of coronet.

The third dial has closed 6's (and as pointed out by Springer a noticeably different coronet to the open 6 dials). All of the closed 6 dials seen on-line have a letter B on the back, indicating the manufacturer as Beyeler.

The service dial which is shown in Adam's 5513, has Rolex - 2 376 marking on the rear.

I originally thought that the service dial which has closed 6's used a different font to the original closed 6 dial but having obsessively looked at the Original Beyeler closed 6 and the Service dial, they have the same printed detail except for the SWISS marking at the bottom.

As I'm not sure how the photo's will post, I'll attach a copy of each dial in separate following posts.

My knowledge has limitations, so I'm more than happy to be corrected on any of the above

FIRST PHOTO'S ARE OF THE OPEN 6 NON-ALLIGNED F&T DIAL
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File Type: jpg Screen Shot 2017-11-07 at 09.43.42.jpg (116.2 KB, 501 views)
File Type: jpg Screen Shot 2017-11-07 at 09.44.35.jpg (81.1 KB, 495 views)
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Old 8 November 2017, 08:25 AM   #23
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Open 6 dial with aligned f&t
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File Type: jpg Screen Shot 2017-11-07 at 10.11.08.jpg (107.3 KB, 502 views)
File Type: jpg Screen Shot 2017-11-07 at 10.11.28.jpg (69.0 KB, 497 views)
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Old 8 November 2017, 08:28 AM   #24
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Closed 6 dial
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File Type: jpg Screen Shot 2017-11-07 at 09.32.33.jpg (77.1 KB, 496 views)
File Type: jpg Screen Shot 2017-11-07 at 09.33.18.jpg (97.1 KB, 500 views)
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Old 8 November 2017, 08:30 AM   #25
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And finally the service dial
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File Type: jpg Screen Shot 2017-11-07 at 10.07.12.jpg (62.7 KB, 508 views)
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Old 8 November 2017, 09:54 PM   #26
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Thanks a lot, stevedssd

It's all clear now !

• Open 6 dial (ft aligned and not aligned) : STERN
• Closed 6 dial SWISS – T — <25 : BEYELER
• Closed 6 service dial SWISS only : Rolex 2 (BEYELER)
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