SCUBA: NATO / Oyster Bracelet / Rubber

[Xasroma]

I have reviewed multiple threads and here are my Views/Comments/Issues:

For Scuba I can use the oyster bracelet / NATO strap / Rubber.

Some state oyster bracelets can withstand a magnificent amount of pressure.
The new clasp adjustment is very convenient but if wearing a 3.5mm wetsuit not enough to cover the diameter (forget about my 5mm wetsuit with lavacore undergarment as well). I have to pull back /fold wrist area/unzip to fit the watch even with the extension!

Rubber could be a good option since finer adjustments can be made with a wetsuit.

Fast removal of spring bars with Bergeon 6825-PF is a plus.

Following the posts/threads : some take home key points on NATO straps:

With the new models having spring bars : theoretically speaking several users state spring bars bend or destroy the holes on the case....
However, I have yet to read a thread WITH PICTURES with damage to a Rolex spring bar/ failure and or damaged case with worn lug holes.

I read multiple threads of NATO users with no issues after use for a prolonged period of time. I see pictures of them diving with NATO straps and many non diving users using NATO's for a prolonged period of time with no problems.

Regarding quality of Straps : straps seem should be taken as disposable after a few months of use. Quality subjective for many...

I have read: Recommended straps : 20mm Gnomon, Zulu,Corvus,Maratac.

Leaning towards Maratac; since it the favorite of Jason71 (biased towards his recommendation-since he is GUE) :).

Going back in time in the forum there are other straps that I cannot find- they don't sell them anymore.

Regardless of NATO/Rubber/Bracelet: I need to buy from AD Rolex spring bars as backup in case of damage or loss. (some users have Frei spring bars)

NATO vs Oyster bracelet vs Rubber : A wetsuit will vary significantly on the wrist diameter, which can put a significantly higher amount of pressure to the spring bars.
If I have an oyster bracelet the added pressure can lead to failure and losing my watch. Rubber could have less pressure but if fails I get the same result.
NATO strap: I get to keep the watch if fails.

Purchased bergeon6825 PF (very pricey! shipping as we speak).

Now I need to purchase NATO/Rubber, etc.
Where to purchase? Maratac not available in Amazon. Any updated links? recommendations?
Thanks again
This forum rocks!

[Thatguy]

I am not sure the best route myself. My sub with glidelock fits over a 7mm wetsuit.
Those in the nato crowd claim it is safer due to if one springbar fails your watch doesn't fall off. I am thinking that because the springbar can flex it is more likely to fail. For a bar to fail on a bracelet the bar would have to shear off.
From the failures of the oysters I have seen here it seems the clasp is the weak point.
I dive with mine either over my wetsuit or over my drysuit wrist seal with wet gloves.


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[RollieVerde]

I say stick with the bracelet. The biggest wet suit I've had mine on is 5mm and it worked fine, w/ no undue pressure on the surface (where it is at it's greatest, as the suit compresses w/depth). The thing I hate about all straps: I find them a pain to put on and adjust compared to a bracelet. I'm more likely to drop the watch while putting a strap on, too, which can't happen with a bracelet (but that's just me). Also (with the exception of rubber) straps are harder to keep clean over time. But I don't like rubber because they can fail with no warning, and the sun accelerates this process. However, if you go with really high quality and take some care you'll likely be fine with any of them; just regularly inspect them for wear, stretch marks, loose screws, etc.

[77T]

Both countycomm and broadarrow are still good sources of NATOs and Zulus. In the water they surpass expectations for safety and convenience.

I'm sure you'd be fairly safe with the bracelet as long as you're as careful as you have been diligent in reviewing the options.

As for the causes of bracelet failures in the past, it doesn't really matter why they fail IMHO. The consequences when in deep or murky water are usually a sad fate for the watch.

I recall a recent case where a guy was waterboarding and bracelet come off. Luckily he eventually found it. Most of the other cases ended with a complete loss.

[ec51]

You fail to mention the fact that with a NATO it would take a DOUBLE spring bar failure to lose the watch, whereas with the oyster - if one bar were to fail...see ya later!

[gregmoeck]

why wear it at all, why risk it?

people spend $350.00 on a regulator and 7K on a watch, should be the other way around when it comes to atcual scuba..

[RollieVerde]

And if your NATO comes undone at the buckle bye bye watch! And unbuckled bracelet stays on your wrist, albeit loosely and would have a problem getting around your glove. Springbars don't just fail in huge numbers, despite what some people think. The only ones I've heard about are with watches where the owner has been constantly dicking around with changing straps and the like anyway. At some point a spring bar should fail by design, as it's better to lose the watch that stay stuck with whatever's pulling on it hard enough to break it. All kinds of things can happen when diving, even when trying to get back into the boat during heavy seas. Each to his own, though. Everything we prefer is tainted by the prism of our own experience. And I think overall the bracelet design is the best, based on mine.

[Thatguy]

Originally Posted by gregmoeck

why wear it at all, why risk it?



people spend $350.00 on a regulator and 7K on a watch, should be the other way around when it comes to atcual scuba..

I feel it is less of a risk on my wrist rather than leaving it somewhere on whatever boat, island or vacation I am on. I could leave at home but I did not buy it to have it sit in a safe.


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[RollieVerde]

Originally Posted by gregmoeck

why wear it at all, why risk it?

people spend $350.00 on a regulator and 7K on a watch, should be the other way around when it comes to atcual scuba..

I see your point, and there is certainly some validity to it. It's like guys that ride $18,000 motorcycles and won't spring $400 on a decent helmet. FWIW, I spent $1400 on a new regulator, which is not unusual, and my arguably very expensive watch is fully insured no matter where I am on the planet. NATO, rubber, bracelet whatever, take this one bit of advice: insure your watch. It's surprisingly affordable, and is the prudent thing to do considering the cost of the item. And peace of mind is never a bad thing.

[phils]

Hi "X",
Look at the Tudor Pelagos with its great way to adjust for wet suits.

[Mfrankel2]

Which watch are we talking about? While I no longer dive with mine, if the band on a DSSD is adjusted to fit well while glide lock at or near smallest, combining glide lock expansion with divers extension would fit over my thickest suit. While I did wear underwater I actually preferred it to be under suit "cuff" in warmer water (no gloves) or with 7 mil or dry over suit but under glove gauntlet. Always good to have a bit of neoprene between 10k worth of machine and a thrashing boat ladder.

[Xasroma]

Originally Posted by RollieVerde

I see your point, and there is certainly some validity to it. It's like guys that ride $18,000 motorcycles and won't spring $400 on a decent helmet. FWIW, I spent $1400 on a new regulator, which is not unusual, and my arguably very expensive watch is fully insured no matter where I am on the planet. NATO, rubber, bracelet whatever, take this one bit of advice: insure your watch. It's surprisingly affordable, and is the prudent thing to do considering the cost of the item. And peace of mind is never a bad thing.

I did not know I could insure for loss by scuba diving and outside of the USA; for that reason have not insured. I will look into it

[Xasroma]

Originally Posted by Mfrankel2

Which watch are we talking about? While I no longer dive with mine, if the band on a DSSD is adjusted to fit well while glide lock at or near smallest, combining glide lock expansion with divers extension would fit over my thickest suit. While I did wear underwater I actually preferred it to be under suit "cuff" in warmer water (no gloves) or with 7 mil or dry over suit but under glove gauntlet. Always good to have a bit of neoprene between 10k worth of machine and a thrashing boat ladder.

I have a 116610 LV ( Hulk).
I like to clasp the buckle in my wrist, unclasped it certainly fits. Using glide lock and clasped maximum I can use 2.5mm. I dive waterproof (swedish brand) wetsuits which have plastic sleeves and covering zipper for added protection. However with a lava core undergarment I cannot clasp the bracelet.
I have been using sweat bands for keeping my instruments in their location and handy to cover them and avoid scratches with the equipment. Very useful.

[Xasroma]

Originally Posted by 77T

Both countycomm and broadarrow are still good sources of NATOs and Zulus. In the water they surpass expectations for safety and convenience.

I'm sure you'd be fairly safe with the bracelet as long as you're as careful as you have been diligent in reviewing the options.

As for the causes of bracelet failures in the past, it doesn't really matter why they fail IMHO. The consequences when in deep or murky water are usually a sad fate for the watch.

I recall a recent case where a guy was waterboarding and bracelet come off. Luckily he eventually found it. Most of the other cases ended with a complete loss.

Thank you for the sources and for the great feedback!

[Xasroma]

Originally Posted by gregmoeck

why wear it at all, why risk it?

people spend $350.00 on a regulator and 7K on a watch, should be the other way around when it comes to atcual scuba..

The 116610 LV is my backup bottom timer, so you can assume my regulator and other scuba equipment match its quality.

[Jason71]

Originally Posted by Xasroma

The 116610 LV is my backup bottom timer, so you can assume my regulator and other scuba equipment match its quality.

Thank you for your vote of confidence.

BTW, I have dove with bracelet, and on a recent trip I used the Pelagos on the bracelet. The bracelet is actually pretty darn cool and it almost seems like a SCUBA diver designed it. It fits well over a 5mm wetsuit with a lavacore underneath. HOWEVER, I still prefer the MARATAC NATOs. They provide easy fitment over the wetsuit and it really is safer IMHO. I really think if I had the 116600LV that I might try and use some springbars designed for drilled through lugs without the double flange (the shoulderless kind) and use them for the period of diving with the NATO. When I was ready to put it back on the bracelet, I would just destroy the bars to get them out. Springbars are cheap.

Btw, people just don't seem to understand that scuba is expensive. I buy only the best scuba equipment, and I see nothing wrong with using the best bottom timer on the market. I have ~ $3,500 in the 16600 that I use while diving. This is right in line with the cost of my other scuba equipment. Dive with your Rolex and don't worry about what others think

[bradj]

Having a small side business making 5 Ring Zulu watch straps in a similar style to Nato straps I'd like to share my thoughts.

The first thing is nearly everyone I've ever seen wears these straps wrong. At least worn wrong if you want to reduce stress on your spring bars.

To start here are a couple pictures of how most people wear these straps.









Now this is the most comfortable way for sure, the strap lays nice and flat against the skin. However the spring bars will carry 100% of stress if the watch is struck.

The following images are how the strap is supposed to be worn. I will note that most companies that make straps like this don't take into account that people will ever wear it this way and so they make them around 10 3/4"(all of the guys you name off in your head). For some larger wristed people, along with the layers of wetsuit etc... that might not be enough length to actually secure properly with the proper technique. That's why I made my straps just over 12" to function as a true strap for tool/dive watches. rant over..

The importance for the second piece of material and double rings is to not just run the strap through, but to double the strap back through which will then remove all the stress from the spring bars and place it on the underlying piece of material under the strap.
















I don't typically wear the strap this way daily because it is a bit bulkier and not 100% as comfortable as wearing it just rung through both rings a single time.

There was another mention if the buckle fell off.. That is a valid concern with some cheap nato straps because they are cheap spring bar buckles. I would hope all the other guys making these straps do what I do. I use a complete circular ring with no spring bars. Even if you cut the material(I couldn't with a knife, had to use sharp dikes) the strap most likely still wouldn't come off because the tang is still run through the hole of the nylon and would be doubled under the rings that act as keepers.





If you are going to wear a Nato/Zulu to dive with, don't buy a cheap one and wear it properly to reduce/eliminate spring bar stress.

[Mfrankel2]

Originally Posted by Xasroma

I have a 116610 LV ( Hulk).
I like to clasp the buckle in my wrist, unclasped it certainly fits. Using glide lock and clasped maximum I can use 2.5mm. I dive waterproof (swedish brand) wetsuits which have plastic sleeves and covering zipper for added protection. However with a lava core undergarment I cannot clasp the bracelet.
I have been using sweat bands for keeping my instruments in their location and handy to cover them and avoid scratches with the equipment. Very useful.

Should be more room; is the glide lock at it's smallest when wearing daily? Maybe put in 1/2 link if not and tighten up glide lock so more expansion room?

[RollieVerde]

Originally Posted by Mfrankel2

Should be more room; is the glide lock at it's smallest when wearing daily? Maybe put in 1/2 link if not and tighten up glide lock so more expansion room?

That's an excellent point. When I bought my sub, the girl at my AD that sized it made sure that was the case, so I have the maximum amount of expansion room. I realized later she was not only fast, she really knew want she was doing.

This is definitely worth checking. When properly fitted there really is a decent amount of expansion for a moderately thick suit.

[Xasroma]

Originally Posted by Jason71

Thank you for your vote of confidence.



BTW, I have dove with bracelet, and on a recent trip I used the Pelagos on the bracelet. The bracelet is actually pretty darn cool and it almost seems like a SCUBA diver designed it. It fits well over a 5mm wetsuit with a lavacore underneath. HOWEVER, I still prefer the MARATAC NATOs. They provide easy fitment over the wetsuit and it really is safer IMHO. I really think if I had the 116600LV that I might try and use some springbars designed for drilled through lugs without the double flange (the shoulderless kind) and use them for the period of diving with the NATO. When I was ready to put it back on the bracelet, I would just destroy the bars to get them out. Springbars are cheap

Where can I get these spring bars? And to take them out, you destroy them without damage to the watch? Where can I learn more about this?
I will look into the Pelagos as well as NATO, thanks for the input. I have been putting the submariner to the test with intense training since I need to get my check out dives with Doug in the coming month. :) thanks again.


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[Xasroma]

Bradj:

Awesome post! :) Thanks for the detailed pictures and explanation. I will certainly check on the length of the NATO. You state I need 12 inches in length at least for the double pass? Do you sell them on your side business? Getting Maratac for now as per Jason's recommendation. Would like to buy more of course with the short life span.


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[Xasroma]

Originally Posted by RollieVerde

That's an excellent point. When I bought my sub, the girl at my AD that sized it made sure that was the case, so I have the maximum amount of expansion room. I realized later she was not only fast, she really knew want she was doing.



This is definitely worth checking. When properly fitted there really is a decent amount of expansion for a moderately thick suit.

Rollie and Mfrankel: thanks for the suggestion I already have those settings; I guess the issue is that I like to clasp the watch. The glide lock adds around 20mm max increment....hence what I noticed is a maximum of a 2.5 mm wetsuit (clasped) over the wetsuit. Unclasped I am certainly able to fit it through. I didn't phrase it properly. My apologies.


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[RollieVerde]

Weird. All I can tell you is a have 7.5 wrist, and I can easily expand the glidelock and clasp it and lock it down, with a bit of adjustment to spare, over my 5mm Henderson. Best of luck no matter whatever you end up using.

[Thatguy]

Originally Posted by RollieVerde

Weird. All I can tell you is a have 7.5 wrist, and I can easily expand the glidelock and clasp it and lock it down, with a bit of adjustment to spare, over my 5mm Henderson. Best of luck no matter whatever you end up using.

I have a 7.25" wrist and can get it over a 7mm wetsuit. It sounds like the op might have a dry suit. If he has dry gloves he is out of luck I believe but it should work with wet gloves.


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[Dan Pierce]

NATO when I SCUBA.
dP

[ec51]

Bradj -- excellent post, thank you!

[Xasroma]

So I went ahead and placed the first straps on the watch. Here are the pics. I am taking it for a spin tomorrow to several wrecks and Goliath grouper aggregations. :) Awaiting the maratac shipment. Still not used to the "NATO look"( feels good on the wrist though).
Bought some springbars from ebay that said were for "new subs" and were not the same as oem - avoid buying them. I also Emailed back and forth with Frei and they couldn't help me ( no data on 116610 models!)

After reviewing multiple threads here in TRF, it seems you CAN get the springbars from Rolex through your AD. I do not know why someone posted that it was not possible to get authentic springbars from Rolex unless you exchange your old ones/send your watch in without them,etc... I was apparently misinformed.
I will go to Mayors. Perhaps purchasing the watch from AD helps with this type of situation?. I want to change those springbars routinely with use (especially if I notice anything funky with them)

On another note: ( insurance how did I miss that?!)
I was going NATO for security while diving, (not losing the watch), I also dive in areas with many sharks that are fed with chumming and hand feeding ( which I don't support) and I am not a big fan of having something sparkling in my wrist.
Regardless....regarding insurance : the thought never crossed my mind of insuring the watch!!!.
I went ahead and insured the watch ( funny how 2 years of insurance cost the same than the bergeon 6825 tool!!) I wish I had tried the toothpicks first! LOL!
Hope this info helps someone else on the hunt. Thanks for all the replies.

Have a great weekend and enjoy your watches. :)

[kamek]

Originally Posted by bradj

Having a small side business making 5 Ring Zulu watch straps in a similar style to Nato straps I'd like to share my thoughts.

The first thing is nearly everyone I've ever seen wears these straps wrong. At least worn wrong if you want to reduce stress on your spring bars.

To start here are a couple pictures of how most people wear these straps.









Now this is the most comfortable way for sure, the strap lays nice and flat against the skin. However the spring bars will carry 100% of stress if the watch is struck.

The following images are how the strap is supposed to be worn. I will note that most companies that make straps like this don't take into account that people will ever wear it this way and so they make them around 10 3/4"(all of the guys you name off in your head). For some larger wristed people, along with the layers of wetsuit etc... that might not be enough length to actually secure properly with the proper technique. That's why I made my straps just over 12" to function as a true strap for tool/dive watches. rant over..

The importance for the second piece of material and double rings is to not just run the strap through, but to double the strap back through which will then remove all the stress from the spring bars and place it on the underlying piece of material under the strap.
















I don't typically wear the strap this way daily because it is a bit bulkier and not 100% as comfortable as wearing it just rung through both rings a single time.

There was another mention if the buckle fell off.. That is a valid concern with some cheap nato straps because they are cheap spring bar buckles. I would hope all the other guys making these straps do what I do. I use a complete circular ring with no spring bars. Even if you cut the material(I couldn't with a knife, had to use sharp dikes) the strap most likely still wouldn't come off because the tang is still run through the hole of the nylon and would be doubled under the rings that act as keepers.





If you are going to wear a Nato/Zulu to dive with, don't buy a cheap one and wear it properly to reduce/eliminate spring bar stress.

This was extremely informative, and makes perfect sense. Thanks so much for sharing this! Also, that Panerai case looks so good without the crown in! What model is it from?

[Nsx_23]

Let us know how you go - I am in a similar dilemma with my 16600.

Slightly off topic - Anyone know an international seller of Maratac straps?

[Hoppyjr]

Originally Posted by Xasroma

\
Following the posts/threads : some take home key points on NATO straps:

With the new models having spring bars : theoretically speaking several users state spring bars bend or destroy the holes on the case....
However, I have yet to read a thread WITH PICTURES with damage to a Rolex spring bar/ failure and or damaged case with worn lug holes.

I read multiple threads of NATO users with no issues after use for a prolonged period of time. I see pictures of them diving with NATO straps and many non diving users using NATO's for a prolonged period of time with no problems.

Regarding damage to lug holes / case, when using NATO's - I believe this is possible and I recall seeing a couple of photos somewhere (WUS?). I believe the problem occurs when using spring bars that have the incorrect end (tip) diameter, which allows them to move around in the hole and potentially elongate the hole.

The older "lug holes" Rolex models used a 1.2 mm diameter tip IIRC, but the newer stuff likely doesn't. When I use NATO's I always install shoulder-less spring bars, to provide as close to a fixed-bar experience as possible, since NATO's were designed for fixed-bar type watches. When I installed some shoulder-less bars from County Comm (approx .9 mm tips) - on my latest Pelagos - I noticed a little wiggle. The 1.2 mm ends of the old style Rolex bars were too thick and didn't fully seat in the holes. The Seiko style fat-bars also seemed a bit thick on the Pelagos, so I ordered some 1.0 mm tipped bars from Hank (on eBay) and they seem to be a perfect fit, with minimal wiggle. Close inspection under my loupe suggests these are the same tip diameter as the stock Pelagos spring bars, so I believe these will be my final choice.

When using a shoulder-less spring bar in a watch without drilled lugs, one will need to snip the bar out with a pair of wire cutters when removal is desired. I don't find this a problem at all and I feel more secure when wearing NATO's.

I wish Rolex returned to drilled lugs on all sports models.