PAM 351 vs 422-- help me pick my first PAM!

[eyeheartny]

Demographic/Lifestyle Info

• Male, 34 years old
• 6'2", 215lbs, muscular/athletic build, always have facial hair of some kind
• Wrist size is around 8.25". Currently at a little less as I'm recovering from shoulder surgery and just got out of a brace for 4 week where my arm did nothing at all, so my wrist size has atrophied.
• Work in casual environments, suit up rarely, always wear shirtsleeves rolled up (for size/thickness consideration)
• Style-wise, I tend toward "refined casual classics"-- very little black, mostly classic menswear colors of navy, white, grey, olive, burgundy, and various shades of blue. Live in Southern California. Typical cool-weather look is well-fitted/tapered jeans, Alden shell cordovan shoes, OCBD in blue/white. Warm weather, swap shorts for jeans and Quoddy bluchers for heavy Alden shoes.

Current Watch Collection

• Rolex SubC, No Date (40mm)
• Orient Polaris GMT (executive/semi-dress, white face/blue hands, currently on a Staib heavy mesh) (42mm)
• Deep Blue Master 1000 Automatic, blue face/blue bezel, currently on an olive NATO and wear it on Perlon frequently (44mm)

Panerai Try-On Results

• I went to the Panerai boutique today intending to look at the 392/1392 for a modest-sized PAM that would have a timelessness like my Rolex. I also have some straps for my other watches that all take 22mm straps and figured I'd reuse them.
• I know I want a PAM for my next piece and know I want the 1950s case, so that narrowed things down tremendously.
• The SA was helpful and brought out the 392/1392 for me, which are lovely pieces and fit beautifully. I'm still considering them, to be honest, but things went a little differently.
• He brought out the 351 and also the 372/422. I was really struck by the 351-- the hands/dial combo is really striking/unexpected, and it looked great on my wrist.
• But that was before he brought out the 422. What a stunning piece. The dial and case are absolutely gorgeous. Just really special. It felt "borderline" size-wise, but I'm also biased because I've never worn a watch of that size before. It looked really striking on me as well; just a really stunning, "in your face" piece in the best possible way.

Factors I'm Considering

• I am not a "buy and flip" kind of guy-- my three existing watches will be with me for many years, and I only want to buy a PAM that will endure and have the same kind of wearability and long-term style that my Sub does. Really want a "forever" piece.
• I don't really love date complications on watches, so that's a mark against the 351.
• The durability of titanium is appealing.
• Don't mind hand-wind, so that's neutral between the two of them.
• Domed crystal on the 422 is gorgeous.
• REALLY attracted to the quick-change strap system on the 351.
• A little concerned about the availability of straps for the 422. I'm considering getting a few customs from Camille Fournet so it shouldn't be too big a deal to get a 26/22 made, but I don't like non-tapering straps and I want to be sure I can have a big selection of straps available to me.

So, based on all the above factors, which would you recommend?

Thanks for feedback!

[supra8903]

id go 422. I had one. it was great. straps are easy... any of the good guys can make them.

here's a few shots to hold you over.

Untitled by Joseph Jeram, on Flickr

Untitled by Joseph Jeram, on Flickr

_DSC1643 by Joseph Jeram, on Flickr

[Psmith]

422 no doubt

[Cru Jones]

Nice write up and background info!

First and foremost, there are MANY models, case types, materials, functions, etc. within the Panerai line, so, my advice is to take the time to explore them all and try on as much as possible.

The 351 is a beauty for sure, but, the dial color limits it slightly with straps. If an only PAM, for that reason alone, I'd go with the 422, as a black dial will work with all straps, and strap changes are so much a part of the experience.

The 422, while 3 mm wider, should wear better, as it is thinner and the case shape sits less high off the wrist. From what you write, it seems like you definitely prefer this model. Go with your gut, it's almost always right when it comes to watches, IMHO.

In the end, if you prefer the size and looks of the 351, consider also models like the 312, 320 and 359, which are probably more versatile, strap-wise. Then again, if you love the Ti, brown dial and gold hands, pick up the 351 and enjoy. :)

I understand your point about the strap changes. I have a model with quick change buttons (164, which is another type of case referred to as Bettarini (see the 000, 005, 111, 176, 104, etc. for this case shape (only the 104 also has the buttons))), and I really appreciate being able to switch straps in about 8 seconds. There are times when i switch straps once or even twice a day thanks to it.

Have you tried the 233?

* a modern day classic in the line up
* 8 days power reserve
* dome
* manual
* GMT
* 44 mm
* yes, 1950s case, so, similar to the 351, but it is thinner due to the manual movement
* quick change strap system
* regular lume color + black dial

[Speed]

I am with Cru. 422 or 233.

There are always custom strap options...but you'll have the basics covered with OEM.

Buy the watch you like first. Straps will come.

You will need to make use of the screwdriver and masking tape for lug protection with the 422.

Personally I think the screws / case will eventually get thread damage and that would dissuade frequent strap changes - for me anyway. My last Pam was a 111 and the task became tiresome.

[1William]

422 all the way. Based on your wrist size the 47 mm will be perfect.

[ManUtd]

Originally Posted by 1William

422 all the way. Based on your wrist size the 47 mm will be perfect.

+100

My first choice was the PAM372 but my wrist just couldn't handle it. With an 8.25" the 422 is a no brainer IMO.

[lig]

422 or 372. I just wish they looked correct on my 6.75" wrist.

You'll love either of them, I'm sure.

[masyv6]

Go try them on! I've found Panerai to be a little deceptive about their size on the wrist. I've tried on some 44mm PAMs that wear very large and some 47mm PAMs that feel the same as my SubC.

I'm a sucker for the 512, myself

[eal15]

To buck the trend, I'm saying 351. I've had many Panerai's, although not a 233 which I am considering because that version of GMT for Panerai is a thing of beauty and I do travel. I had a 311 and like the domed crystal but not any more than the regular one. I do like the power reserve and especially hidden on the back but.... I always come back to the 351 for the titanium weight, gold hands and brown dial. Everyone seems to love it but some say it limits strap combos. I disagree! Other things to consider are other complications, do you like complications, you mentioned not caring about the date but the 233 has a seconds reset and a fabulous get function both of which I miss a lot actually, and the 351 wouldn't have that. Now that I made my other watch purchase, I really want my Panerai back so far the 351 is in the lead followed but the 233 and lagging further back are a few other models. I'd skip consideration of the 312 or any other 1950 of that ilk since you're looking at the 351 already. The 392/1392 models are interesting too. I've also looked at the 392 even though I'm a 44mm guy. I'm really looking forward to seeing the 1392 in person.

[Jcgul]

422 all day. In my opinion it's far more "iconic" and a classier panerai look, all while being substantially sexier with the domed crystal, polished case, and 47mm size. The 1950s case in 47mm wears very nicely, and at your size would look entirely appropriate. Good luck and enjoy the hunt!

[eyeheartny]

Originally Posted by 1William

422 all the way. Based on your wrist size the 47 mm will be perfect.

Originally Posted by ManUtd

+100

My first choice was the PAM372 but my wrist just couldn't handle it. With an 8.25" the 422 is a no brainer IMO.

Originally Posted by lig

422 or 372. I just wish they looked correct on my 6.75" wrist.

You'll love either of them, I'm sure.

Thanks for these replies! I went back to a different AD today with my girlfriend to get her opinion, and she thought the 47mm looked, in her words, "cartoonish." I don't know what it was, but I couldn't get it sitting correctly on my wrist this time. I just re-measured my wrist and apparently I've atrophied more from my surgery than I thought; the wrist I'll be wearing it on is a hair over 7.75". I'm going to go back in a day or two and try again, but I definitely don't want anything that looks "cartoonish," especially when my girlfriend is not one to be critical of watch choices normally!

As gorgeous as the 422 is, I may end up going with a 44mm. Bummed!

[eyeheartny]

Originally Posted by Jcgul

422 all day. In my opinion it's far more "iconic" and a classier panerai look, all while being substantially sexier with the domed crystal, polished case, and 47mm size. The 1950s case in 47mm wears very nicely, and at your size would look entirely appropriate. Good luck and enjoy the hunt!

Turns out my wrist has shrunk from a few months of not moving after surgery. I thought it was 8.25" but I measured today and I'm at 7.75". Might explain why it seems borderline size wise!

[eyeheartny]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

Nice write up and background info!

First and foremost, there are MANY models, case types, materials, functions, etc. within the Panerai line, so, my advice is to take the time to explore them all and try on as much as possible.

Thanks for the detailed reply, and I definitely am taking my time! It's a very different experience than buying my Rolex; in that case I knew I wanted a new-in-box SubC and that was it. Not really much choice except which trusted seller from here to go with!

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

The 422, while 3 mm wider, should wear better, as it is thinner and the case shape sits less high off the wrist. From what you write, it seems like you definitely prefer this model. Go with your gut, it's almost always right when it comes to watches, IMHO.

I went back to a different AD today and had a very different feeling after trying on the same two pieces...47mm felt out of proportion and hard to get sitting right on my wrist. Kind of bummed as it's absolutely gorgeous. It still is the one that makes my stomach jump when I see it, but I'm really not sure about the fit anymore. Turns out I hadn't measured my wrists in about 6 months and they've gotten narrower than I had previously measured...I remeasured today at 7.75" and that might explain why my girlfriend referred to the 47mm as looking "cartoonish" on today. Bummed, but I'm going to try again and see if with a different strap it fits better.

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

The 351 is a beauty for sure, but, the dial color limits it slightly with straps. If an only PAM, for that reason alone, I'd go with the 422, as a black dial will work with all straps, and strap changes are so much a part of the experience.


In the end, if you prefer the size and looks of the 351, consider also models like the 312, 320 and 359, which are probably more versatile, strap-wise. Then again, if you love the Ti, brown dial and gold hands, pick up the 351 and enjoy. :)

I'm going back to the boutique tomorrow after physical therapy to try on the 312 and 351 side by side with some different straps, as well as the 422 again.

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

I understand your point about the strap changes. I have a model with quick change buttons (164, which is another type of case referred to as Bettarini (see the 000, 005, 111, 176, 104, etc. for this case shape (only the 104 also has the buttons))), and I really appreciate being able to switch straps in about 8 seconds. There are times when i switch straps once or even twice a day thanks to it.

Yeah, I really want to get a wide range of straps for this watch, since it changes the look so much and it's such an enjoyable way to get "more" out of a given piece with the ease of changing. I can see myself wearing whatever PAM I get multiple times a week in my rotation with a different strap every time-- black/navy blue/oxblood/grey croc, for example.

Ideally I'd find the domed crystal and gold hands of the 372/422 in a 44mm 1950 case with a cleaner dial and lower MSRP than the 233! The crystal + hands of the 372/422 are just stunning. Can't get enough of them. It's the damn wrist size/difficulty getting the watch centered on the wrist that is throwing me off.

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

Have you tried the 233?

* a modern day classic in the line up
* 8 days power reserve
* dome
* manual
* GMT
* 44 mm
* yes, 1950s case, so, similar to the 351, but it is thinner due to the manual movement
* quick change strap system
* regular lume color + black dial

I haven't tried yet, but it may be out of budget-- I've been planning on buying new from one of the trusted sellers and even with their discount off MSRP it's more than I have budgeted for this purchase, at almost $3k more than even the 422, which is the priciest model I've been considering MSRP is rather steep on the 233.

[Urosfan]

422

[nick c]

Another 422

[eyeheartny]

Originally Posted by Jcgul

422 all day. In my opinion it's far more "iconic" and a classier panerai look, all while being substantially sexier with the domed crystal, polished case, and 47mm size. The 1950s case in 47mm wears very nicely, and at your size would look entirely appropriate. Good luck and enjoy the hunt!

Would you say that if I mentioned that I remeasured my wrist and it's 7.75"? I can't figure out why it looks a little "too big." I'm going back to the boutique tomorrow to take some pictures and hopefully I can get some reassurance here before I buy.

[eyeheartny]

Originally Posted by eal15

To buck the trend, I'm saying 351. I've had many Panerai's, although not a 233 which I am considering because that version of GMT for Panerai is a thing of beauty and I do travel. I had a 311 and like the domed crystal but not any more than the regular one. I do like the power reserve and especially hidden on the back but.... I always come back to the 351 for the titanium weight, gold hands and brown dial. Everyone seems to love it but some say it limits strap combos. I disagree! Other things to consider are other complications, do you like complications, you mentioned not caring about the date but the 233 has a seconds reset and a fabulous get function both of which I miss a lot actually, and the 351 wouldn't have that. Now that I made my other watch purchase, I really want my Panerai back so far the 351 is in the lead followed but the 233 and lagging further back are a few other models. I'd skip consideration of the 312 or any other 1950 of that ilk since you're looking at the 351 already. The 392/1392 models are interesting too. I've also looked at the 392 even though I'm a 44mm guy. I'm really looking forward to seeing the 1392 in person.

Appreciate the "dissenting" opinion! I would love to see some pics of your 351 on different straps if you wouldn't mind. Lots of strap choices are part of my interest in a PAM (duh!) and would be grateful for as many pics as you can post. I have light-ish/pinkish skin tone and dark arm hair (and a lot of it) so I will probably gravitate toward straps in burgundy/oxblood, navy blue, olive green and dark grey colors. But honestly I'll take whatever pics I can get. Yeah, I'm likely going to skip the 312 and not even put it in contention.

Honestly the 392/1392 felt like a fine size-- the SA at the boutique tried to move me away from it and suggested it was a "women's" PAM, but it just looked like a normal-sized watch. The thinner case of the 1392 is really, really nice! The SA claimed I liked the smaller PAM because wearing my 40mm Sub had made it hard to feel comfortable with a bigger watch. He said he'd sold a lot of 42mm PAMs to people who'd ended up regretting it. Who knows? I am really torn about which direction to go in with this purchase, but I have a serious itch for a new piece, so I'm trying hard to slow down and make the right choice. I wonder how many times I'll have to visit the boutique before they tell me to stop coming in if I am not ready to buy yet...

[eal15]

Here you go. I got several more strap after i let the 351 go. I had it and a 311 at the same time. Basically let the 351 go due to both being the same colour dial. I kept the 311 because it had more complications and was worth more. I got rid of the wrong watch! Ended up parting with the 351 and omega planet ocean 9300 and getting an AP. Now I need a PAM back and the 351 is leading the way followed closely by the 233.


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[eal15]

Sorry but I got way more straps after he 351. The JV strap is by far my fav strap, the brown gator was second. I gravitate towards own straps because they fit perfectly. The only aftermarket strap that fit was a ABP strap which was awesome but I don't have the pic on my phone. Panerai has the ranger which I'll pick up after I get my new Panerai. It looked great with the cashmere strap and the canvass strap. Looked pretty good with the black gator too.


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[supra8903]

just as an fyi. my wrist is 7.75" there are more pics on my flicker and instragram.

https://www.instagram.com/supra8903/

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by eyeheartny

Ideally I'd find the domed crystal and gold hands of the 372/422 in a 44mm 1950 case with a cleaner dial and lower MSRP than the 233! The crystal + hands of the 372/422 are just stunning. Can't get enough of them. It's the damn wrist size/difficulty getting the watch centered on the wrist that is throwing me off.

i'm afraid that specific combo (domed + gold hands + 44) doesn't exist. if you want gold hands + 44, you can consider the 351 or 390 (which is a bettarini case model, not 1950s case).

[DOUBLE 0 SE7EN]

Originally Posted by eal15

Here you go. I got several more strap after i let the 351 go. I had it and a 311 at the same time. Basically let the 351 go due to both being the same colour dial. I kept the 311 because it had more complications and was worth more. I got rid of the wrong watch! Ended up parting with the 351 and omega planet ocean 9300 and getting an AP. Now I need a PAM back and the 351 is leading the way followed closely by the 233.


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Love that dark brown gator..

[DOUBLE 0 SE7EN]

422 for sure.. But if you have enough financial support then try the 233..

[stockae92]

You are big, do 422 :)

[eyeheartny]

Here are some pics of each one on-- I went back to the boutique today to try them on. Would appreciate feedback!

PAM 422





PAM 351




Am really torn about which one to go with! More specifically, does the 47mm look too big?

[guelerct]

I'm 6'0 and 228lbs with Crossfit physique and 7.5 wrist. Here is my 351.
Tough choice.

[eal15]

Looks fantastic. I'm really gonna have a hard time picking myself! I loved my 351. I was a little bored with it but still love the look where the 233 has a gmt and seconds reset which I like. I love the lume on the 351. I'm not a fan of the ecru lume.


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[Billythekid]

422 over 351 any day , I have a 422 and I love it more each passing day or if you can live with plexi than try the new 673 marina militare special edition

[Cru Jones]

Both look great, and you should have no hesitation with the 422 if that's what you prefer - the fit is that good on you!

Have you considered a destro model like the 557?