FP Journe Bleu vs. Souverain

[KarlS]

Well we know the answer. He takes pride in the fact that he starts on the dial and then does the movement not the other way round. An example is you wouldn't put a PR next to the crown as the movement is already crowded with the winding mechanism. The symmetry apparently comes from marine chronometers.

[liu_watch]

Originally Posted by LPPP

The finishing is perfect.

But just wondering if the maker had difficulty positioning the subdials in more eye soothing areas of the watch due to mechanism beneath. They look rather random to me. No symmetry and doesn't look intentional. So does the date aperture of the other models as well.

Because the off center subdial is a classic design dating back to Breguet's 19 century pocket watches, and it's no secret that Breguet had significant influences on FPJ since he studied and repaired Breguet pocket watches in his earlier career. Nothing is random in a FPJ dial; he designs a dial first and then work on the movement to fit the dial layout.

From Breguet's current collection, they have a movement 502.3SD, where SD indicates "decentered second", found in models such as Breguet 5140 below. Personally I found off centered subdial very charming but I can also see why others may be bothered by it.




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[liu_watch]

Did some digging from library and found these historic Breguet pocket watches. Just FYI... :-)



Less often seen by 2 o'clock:





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[LPPP]

I see. Thanks for sharing. It's nice to know about the thoughts put into the design.

[Watcheroo]

Credit: "F.P.Journe: The First 30 Years" by Kiran Shekar


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[cervantes]

Originally Posted by Watcheroo

Credit: "F.P.Journe: The First 30 Years" by Kiran Shekar


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This is great! Thanks.

[tigerpac]

That book is amazing. Kiran did a great job with it. You should try and get a copy when you buy your watch :)

[JCZ5]

Originally Posted by Watcheroo

Credit: "F.P.Journe: The First 30 Years" by Kiran Shekar


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Thank you for the post, great read!

To all, any idea if FPJ will come out with another entry piece for SIHH 2017?


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[williebegoode]

Here's my vote

[cervantes]

Btw, it's almost impossible to get a CB the days. Production is limited and boutiques have very long waiting lists.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by capote

Guilloche dial and PR

This, the Bleu felt rather flat on my wrist.

[FTE2014]

Two very different watches at quite different price levels...

I love the centigraphe, it is a Grail to me.

[jd57]

There is a dark dialed rose gold CS...

[Hairdude1]

Originally Posted by williebegoode

Here's my vote

Love this

[JR16]

Reviving the thread given my new interest in both these pieces since the thread was last visited.

On the secondary market the pre owned CS and CB are roughly the same price , with CB maybe being priced a bit higher. Keep in mind the spread in MSRP for new is around $15k (US).

Given this shift, wonder if anyone has changed their opinion on which one they would get if buying pre-owned as this is a decision I may be making.

Thx!


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[Peterandwatches]

Great question, and I'd be interested to see people's responses. On paper, I like everything about the CS. As someone who regularly forgets to wind, a PR is almost essential for me, and I think it's much more classical dressy (which is what I'd be going for), like a Calatrava.

On the other hand, there's just something special about the blue dial. Maybe you're not getting the same bang for the buck, since people have kind of "discovered" the Bleu, but I just love how it looks.

If the price were equal, I'd go Bleu, but barely.

[SROB]

Could be wrong, MSRP for the CB is now around 24k....

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[JR16]

Originally Posted by SROB

Could be wrong, MSRP for the CB is now around 24k....

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I think you are right and my math is off. So $37k for CS and $24k for CB, approx $13k difference new but pre-owned, CB now more expensive or equal .


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[topcat30093]

The CS is one of my FPJ favourites.
And I would love to own one.

[Hank]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

Hi all,

I have been on the Rolex forum for awhile now and you lot have enabled me to purchase a SubC (no-date) and BLNR.

However, I have decided to venture out of the nest and look for a more "dressier" piece that works well from business casual to formal. While giving me a taste of haute horology. I will be giving my SubC to my uncle as he is also a watch nut. Of course, something out means something in

I have posted this question on another forum, but because my watch journey started at TRF, I would like to ask your opinions.

I am torn between acquiring a new Bleu or a pre-owned Souverain in platinum (older model), white dial. I have tried on a rose gold Souverain multiple times, but not the Bleu (very difficult to find one in stock). Yes, many will say go with your heart. However, I can see myself loving both, BUT I can only get one!

The Bleu and its amazing chameleon dial has such charm and uniqueness. The Souverain with its simple white dial is pure class, not to mention a fun power reserve.

See photos (not my own)

Love the CB but the CS seems more versatile plus the PR will come in handy.

[Justindo]

I think the Souverain is more of a dress watch whereas the Bleu is more of a dressy watch. I like both, but the former would be my choice if I could only have one.

[Jay (Eire)]

I think the CB is the more interesting watch. As I've said many times here it's super versatile, you can dress it up or down very easily with a strap change. The dial, the metal (especially the metal, tantalum) and the size allow for this.

The CS, no matter which metal or dial, doesn't have the same versatility. It will always be more dressy.

I have actually been searching for a specific CS for a few years. I already own a CB. For me it would be a work day watch, something a little more formal than the CB.

Re pricing I think at this point in the preowned market many CS are below CB. The dealers might not show it that way.


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[GK12345EMAIL]

Originally Posted by SROB

Could be wrong, MSRP for the CB is now around 24k....

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US$22,800 + Tax (if applicable)

[knm]

I will go with the bleu.

[debner4]

Surprised voting is this close to be honest, but it’s a somewhat apples to oranges question.

CS is a pure dress watch (with a little fun thrown in).

CB is the non-dressy dress watch. It’s for those that don’t want a rose gold or platinum dressy-dress watch.

Decide which of the above is right for you, and choose the watch accordingly.

[Starwalker]

I think if you’re below 40 go for the CB. If you’re above 40 then get the CS. I love both equally, but I bring age into the equation because to rock the CS you need the swagger that and wisdom only someone above the age of 40 could have obtained.

[JR16]

Originally Posted by Starwalker

I think if you’re below 40 go for the CB. If you’re above 40 then get the CS. I love both equally, but I bring age into the equation because to rock the CS you need the swagger that and wisdom only someone above the age of 40 could have obtained.

Ha! Maybe this is why it was a tough choice for me... slightly above age 40. Ended up going w CB bc it fit better than the 40mm CS and was less dressy so think more versatile as my attire including work attire is very casual 90% of the the time



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[GK12345EMAIL]

Originally Posted by JR16

Ha! Maybe this is why it was a tough choice for me... slightly above age 40. Ended up going w CB bc it fit better than the 40mm CS and was less dressy so think more versatile as my attire including work attire is very casual 90% of the the time



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My almost same exact reasons for choosing the CB.

[jh8cw]

Bleu, but I am clearly biased. Since I've only two watches, I would personally pick a watch versatile enough for all occasions. Jay's pictures demonstrate that you can change the total feel of the Bleu via swapping the straps to orange (sort of like a Panerai in this sense).

There are some subjectively valid comments in this thread regarding how boring the Bleu is. I've recently been wondering about why I've always preferred a simple dialed watch if given the wide array of watch designs (Ariel Adams of Awatchtoblog pertinently adds that your watch design should stand and distinguish itself from the crowd). I think it is a preference based on how I think the watch should be an accessory to complement my appearance rather than to dominate my wrist (and arm). Perhaps it is also because I adhere to philosophies like: "... perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove." (Antoine de Saint Exupery).

As for movement complications, my preferences are all over the place from simple to complex. I guess I compare the movement of the watch to the personality or inner-workings of a person and don't mind the dichotomy when it is way more elaborate than the dial.

But I digress! The attempts I make to understand/rationalize my own preferences!

[JR16]

Originally Posted by jh8cw

Bleu, but I am clearly biased. Since I've only two watches, I would personally pick a watch versatile enough for all occasions. Jay's pictures demonstrate that you can change the total feel of the Bleu via swapping the straps to orange (sort of like a Panerai in this sense).

There are some subjectively valid comments in this thread regarding how boring the Bleu is. I've recently been wondering about why I've always preferred a simple dialed watch if given the wide array of watch designs (Ariel Adams of Awatchtoblog pertinently adds that your watch design should stand and distinguish itself from the crowd). I think it is a preference based on how I think the watch should be an accessory to complement my appearance rather than to dominate my wrist (and arm). Perhaps it is also because I adhere to philosophies like: "... perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove." (Antoine de Saint Exupery).

As for movement complications, my preferences are all over the place from simple to complex. I guess I compare the movement of the watch to the personality or inner-workings of a person and don't mind the dichotomy when it is way more elaborate than the dial.

But I digress! The attempts I make to understand/rationalize my own preferences!

Great post! I have similar feelings too and always am trying to figure out my tastes especially since they have changed compared with 8 years ago when I got into all of this! Despite all the “pressures” to go for the complications, I am drawn to the “simpler”watches .


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