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Old 21 March 2020, 09:33 AM   #3091
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There are discussions in the region about calling retired nurses, doctors and medical therapists to volunteer their expertise if the crush in hospitals becomes too great to manage, the idea being that even diminished knowledge and skills are better than none. If someone had brought this up in a discussion two months ago, we all would have laughed.
Seems like med/nursing students would be better candidates given what we know about the effects relative to age. Put a doctor joey chitwood on video conference and have him work side by side with a med student on site. That is probably impossible and foolish. I know nothing about practicing medicine.

Any interface we can put between the truly specialized professionals and patients seems like it would be hugely beneficial as losing one of them to illness could be devastating to a hospital. The experienced doctor could jump between cases just like in the hospital but from a separate room via video conference?

I am guessing thats just not feasible or how it works.
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Old 21 March 2020, 09:34 AM   #3092
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Contrarian perspective. Carry on as normal, do nothing, let it pass through the population as quickly as possible. Short term disruption. But, back to normal as soon as possible. And, the economy keeps on rolling with only a minor hiccup.

What’s currently going on feels like death by a thousand cuts ...
We can deal with what we know.......The main weakness in your “contrarian perspective” is there is no guaranty that things would get back to normal......there are to many unknowns that could happen.....like the virus mutating......etc. etc.

Example: Virus mutates and becomes more virulent and starts taking the lives of younger people and children......where does that leave your perspective now?
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Old 21 March 2020, 09:35 AM   #3093
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Hard to imagine the source of the problem coming out of this looking like a shining star. I applaud SK and SG and Taiwan though.

Agreed
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Old 21 March 2020, 09:44 AM   #3094
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Example: Virus mutates and becomes more virulent and starts taking the lives of younger people and children......where does that leave your perspective now?
In that case we are probably all doomed anyway.

There are endless possibilities for doom, for example:

A coronal mass ejection kills all satellites and computers.

A large asteroid hits earth.

Nuclear war breaks out.

Letting the corona virus take it's course is a walk in the park compared to the above. We have to work with what we have and what we know. Endless questions about where we are left should the sky fall down are not helpful.
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Old 21 March 2020, 09:45 AM   #3095
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Seems like med/nursing students would be better candidates given what we know about the effects relative to age. Put a doctor joey chitwood on video conference and have him work side by side with a med student on site. That is probably impossible and foolish. I know nothing about practicing medicine.

Any interface we can put between the truly specialized professionals and patients seems like it would be hugely beneficial as losing one of them to illness could be devastating to a hospital. The experienced doctor could jump between cases just like in the hospital but from a separate room via video conference?

I am guessing thats just not feasible or how it works.
Believe me, many of these students are already in the thick of it, and will likely be asked to put their lives on the line all while accruing more school related debt and going uncompensated. Without med/nursing students and medical residents most hospitals would collapse under a regular case load. Hospitals have been functioning as lean as possible for years. The only way to expand capacity is the recently retired, who will also be risking their lives. I'm no oracle but I think it's going to get REALLY bad before the majority of Americans accept the gravity of the situation.
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Old 21 March 2020, 09:45 AM   #3096
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This has now touched our family. My wife's cousin just tested postive.
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Old 21 March 2020, 09:50 AM   #3097
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I'm no oracle but I think it's going to get REALLY bad before the majority of Americans accept the gravity of the situation.
So, are you saying that they have not accepted the gravity of the situation yet? According to the news there are long lines at gun shops.
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Old 21 March 2020, 10:03 AM   #3098
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This has now touched our family. My wife's cousin just tested postive.
Wish you and your family the best. Stay safe and healthy
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Old 21 March 2020, 10:07 AM   #3099
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This has now touched our family. My wife's cousin just tested postive.
I'm very sorry to hear this. It's certainly getting closer and closer so we all need to be extremely sensible and cautions per the guidelines given by experts.

I'm praying this somehow passes soon.
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Old 21 March 2020, 10:11 AM   #3100
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This has now touched our family. My wife's cousin just tested postive.
In our prayers!!!

Just alerted by our local health authority that a 60 year old resident of our town has perished and 11 residents are confirmed infected with 3 hospitalized. Local hospital just sent a note requesting donations of masks or gowns. Community 20 minutes away reporting several home invasions.

I believe we are all seeing this the prism of our own experience. Through my eyes this is now deadly serious.
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Old 21 March 2020, 10:13 AM   #3101
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Hard to imagine the source of the problem coming out of this looking like a shining star. I applaud SK and SG and Taiwan though.

Agree. SK, SG, TW and even HK have done a splendid job. Now we are seeing peaks from people returning from Europe and UK.

One more observation from the east, and no offense to anyone from the media here, is the media coverage.

The western media coverage is in stark contrast to the east. Sure, there have been gloom and doom articles here also, but a huge amount of the media coverage in the East has been focused on facts, advise, updates and many times, providing a platform for optimism. The governments are being allowed to focus messaging on situation control. It’s not a surrender and bad decisions are called out, but the focus has been public health and situation control.

In times like these, collaboration must win.


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Old 21 March 2020, 10:15 AM   #3102
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I'm following the thread, albeit not posting, so thanks Mods for banning that dude.
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Old 21 March 2020, 10:28 AM   #3103
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Believe me, many of these students are already in the thick of it, and will likely be asked to put their lives on the line all while accruing more school related debt and going uncompensated. Without med/nursing students and medical residents most hospitals would collapse under a regular case load. Hospitals have been functioning as lean as possible for years. The only way to expand capacity is the recently retired, who will also be risking their lives. I'm no oracle but I think it's going to get REALLY bad before the majority of Americans accept the gravity of the situation.
Makes sense Matt thanks for cluing me in. I for one take the situation very very seriously but I know what you mean. Many still aren't there and I am starting to think it's a coping mechanism for them.

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I'm following the thread, albeit not posting, so thanks Mods for banning that dude.
+1 not a moment too soon
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Old 21 March 2020, 10:31 AM   #3104
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the Coronavirus outbreak thread

Quote:
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This has now touched our family. My wife's cousin just tested postive.
And now her cousin’s 2-week vigil begins. Tinged with the stress and the hopes and the prayers for a safe path untouched by COVID-19. This will keep your wife’s mind racing. I hope she, you and the whole family will fare as well as possible.


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I believe we are all seeing this the prism of our own experience. Though my eyes this is now deadly serious.


Yes - and you make an excellent point.

This is why we keep the spirit of the forum respectful. I don’t mean anything in your post was in any way otherwise - just that your post resonates with the spirit of TRF.

The cold matter of fact, dispassionate types of discourse - for example, this many millions get infected, that many millions expire, etc. - is not helpful as it hits home. It is painful.

This is the experience of one person at a time. Each passing is an arrow into someone’s heart - or many hearts.






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Old 21 March 2020, 10:33 AM   #3105
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I'm following the thread, albeit not posting, so thanks Mods for banning that dude.

Yes I add my appreciation as well.


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Old 21 March 2020, 10:44 AM   #3106
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Yes I add my appreciation as well.


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Old 21 March 2020, 10:51 AM   #3107
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I just found out something interesting today. My wife is a scientist at a university here in Florida. They mostly do research around pregnancy. However their lab change directions today and made 100 tests for coronavirus. I bet many other labs are doing that around the country as well.
A lot of this kind of thing is happening all over. Around here 2 local distilleries have changed from making booze to using the alcohol to make hand sanitizer. They are selling it at cost prioritizing sales to first responders and medical professionals. Only crazy part is the they still have to charge the same tax rate as if it's still booze. Also banks are offering mortgage, credit card and other loan deferrals up to 6 months.
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Old 21 March 2020, 10:56 AM   #3108
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I just found out something interesting today. My wife is a scientist at a university here in Florida. They mostly do research around pregnancy. However their lab change directions today and made 100 tests for coronavirus. I bet many other labs are doing that around the country as well.
Yup. I have heard similar things. Just last week a CEO of a lab business that we keep in regular dialogue with told us his labs were going to start running the test. His labs normally focus on NIPT and carrier screening/genetic counseling testing.

Aside from all the misery this is causing our planet, I will say it's nice to see so many companies stepping up and finding ways to assist however they can right now (GM with ventilators, LVMH with hand sanitizer).
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Old 21 March 2020, 10:59 AM   #3109
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Anyone else like me? Stopped listening to the news because it is too damm depressing?
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Old 21 March 2020, 11:01 AM   #3110
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Contrarian perspective. Carry on as normal, do nothing, let it pass through the population as quickly as possible. Short term disruption. But, back to normal as soon as possible. And, the economy keeps on rolling with only a minor hiccup.

What’s currently going on feels like death by a thousand cuts ...
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Yes I agree. On this particular issue Eastern regimes have taught us lot a lesson. Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Korea and even China are all leading the way and Western regimes are not covering themselves in glory by comparison. Once this has settled they may well be in a much better position than any of the Western powers.
HK and Korea may have responded to this virus effectively from the current reports and thats great we can learn something and should...But really.... is China leading the way? It’s been reported, that they could have created these viruses in their wet markets...if so ...I don’t considerer that as leading the world....I also wouldn't be making predictions too fast.....And I wouldn't count “Western Powers” out too soon....others have in the past....I won’t elaborate.
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Old 21 March 2020, 11:06 AM   #3111
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I’ve been on an internal management program with folks from all over the globe in the recent months, some of them from Singapore, Philippines, Malaysia, China and Japan. Spent many hours on phone conferences with these guys and have heard many first hand reports about actions their governments have taken. Just want to say that they have come down hard on the virus and the things they decided (and the population executed with patience) would be a hard sell in other countries. I respect their decisions and can see the benefits.
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Old 21 March 2020, 11:16 AM   #3112
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Hard to imagine the source of the problem coming out of this looking like a shining star. I applaud SK and SG and Taiwan though.
Agree with that.

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Old 21 March 2020, 11:23 AM   #3113
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Agree. SK, SG, TW and even HK have done a splendid job. Now we are seeing peaks from people returning from Europe and UK.

One more observation from the east, and no offense to anyone from the media here, is the media coverage.

The western media coverage is in stark contrast to the east. Sure, there have been gloom and doom articles here also, but a huge amount of the media coverage in the East has been focused on facts, advise, updates and many times, providing a platform for optimism. The governments are being allowed to focus messaging on situation control. It’s not a surrender and bad decisions are called out, but the focus has been public health and situation control.

In times like these, collaboration must win.


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Agree 100% about the media. If the US had this media in WW2 who knows what would have happened. Such a shame...
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Old 21 March 2020, 12:05 PM   #3114
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I think the American press is holding the government’s feet to the fire. The government has been slow in testing. We do not have enough hospital beds or ventilators. There is no coherent national government policy on quarantines. Planes are flying all over the place spreading the virus. The Congress has taken a week to get out any stimulus. The only government officials who took this seriously were the Senators who were briefed and sold their stocks before the crash.
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Old 21 March 2020, 12:13 PM   #3115
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https://www.marketwatch.com/story/se...?mod=home-page

This article says another dog has tested positive for coronavirus it suggests we stop kissing our furry friends just in case
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Old 21 March 2020, 12:17 PM   #3116
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I'm following the thread, albeit not posting, so thanks Mods for banning that dude.
Agree
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Old 21 March 2020, 12:32 PM   #3117
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the Coronavirus outbreak thread

I know I posted the chart below too many times and with different notations.

But I think it’s worth saying that we shouldn’t underestimate innovation and ingenuity.

This may seem to be a red curve vs blue curve issue but you can also bend the baseline, too. Increases in medical capacity is depicted as yellow line.



It might be through a dozen different methods from hospital ships, to active military, to load balancing, to things we have yet imagined.

I think of Malthus and studied the philosophies of dire consequences, but my optimism always broke through.

So we are approaching week 1 in the US effort to flatten the curve. Next week will be a bit harder as your kids, your parents, your neighbors get antsy.

We’ll need some patience here too. Along about this time each night the Johnny Walker wisdom runs high. And I respect those who already were coping with Prozac, Paxil, Welbutrin, Effexor, Ritalin, Focalin and other Rx’s. Let’s enjoy the fact we can discuss this and be patient and respectful.

Every day is a miracle and this will be one day at a time for a while. Peace


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Old 21 March 2020, 12:36 PM   #3118
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I know I posted the chart below too many times and with different notations.

But I think it’s worth saying that we shouldn’t underestimate innovation and ingenuity.

This may seem to be a red curve vs blue curve issue but you can also bend the baseline, too. Increases in medical capacity is depicted as yellow line.



It might be through a dozen different methods from hospital ships, to active military, to load balancing, to things we have met imagined.

I think of Malthus and studied the philosophies of dire consequences, but my optimism always broke through.

So we are approaching week 1 in the US effort to flatten the curve. Next week will be a bit harder as your kids, your parents, your neighbors get antsy.

We’ll need some patience here too. Along about this time each night the Johnny Walker wisdom runs high. And I respect those who already were coping with Prozac, Paxil, Welbutrin, Effexor, Ritalin, Focalin and other Rx’s. Let’s enjoy the fact we can discuss this and be patient and respectful.

Every day is a miracle and this will be one day at a time for a while. Peace


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Excellent post Paul
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Old 21 March 2020, 01:14 PM   #3119
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I know I posted the chart below too many times and with different notations.

But I think it’s worth saying that we shouldn’t underestimate innovation and ingenuity.

This may seem to be a red curve vs blue curve issue but you can also bend the baseline, too. Increases in medical capacity is depicted as yellow line.



It might be through a dozen different methods from hospital ships, to active military, to load balancing, to things we have met imagined.

I think of Malthus and studied the philosophies of dire consequences, but my optimism always broke through.

So we are approaching week 1 in the US effort to flatten the curve. Next week will be a bit harder as your kids, your parents, your neighbors get antsy.

We’ll need some patience here too. Along about this time each night the Johnny Walker wisdom runs high. And I respect those who already were coping with Prozac, Paxil, Welbutrin, Effexor, Ritalin, Focalin and other Rx’s. Let’s enjoy the fact we can discuss this and be patient and respectful.

Every day is a miracle and this will be one day at a time for a while. Peace


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Well said Paul. Patience, perseverance, the human spirit and respect will get humanity through this.




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Old 21 March 2020, 01:19 PM   #3120
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Every day is a miracle and this will be one day at a time for a while. Peace


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