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Old 20 May 2017, 11:23 PM   #31
Star Ferry
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What do people really earn in SF?

I see the salary range numbers and they seem too low to support the housing values..

They must be considerably higher than the generic $128K software engineer salary that is listed for SF on Glassdoor and where ever...
The reported median salary is probably accurate. Most people in SF either 1) became homeowners at a time when the prices were still attainable or 2) will continue to rent (usually with roommates) until they leave SF.
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Old 20 May 2017, 11:27 PM   #32
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Well I can safely rule out moving to SF any time soon
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Old 20 May 2017, 11:36 PM   #33
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Well I can safely rule out moving to SF any time soon
If high-paying jobs continue to become more concentrated in high-priced cities, things could get worse.

A lot of Americans probably need to lower their lifestyle expectations. Mine are already low after living in HK, where most apartments are tiny and the price per square foot is substantially higher than SF.
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Old 20 May 2017, 11:53 PM   #34
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Thinking about selling up and moving to the States .... houses are way cheaper in the land of milk and honey.
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Old 21 May 2017, 12:17 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Star Ferry View Post
The reported median salary is probably accurate. Most people in SF either 1) became homeowners at a time when the prices were still attainable or 2) will continue to rent (usually with roommates) until they leave SF.
Makes sense in those terms..

On paper there just is this big disconnect between salaries and home prices, such that I wondered how the prices got so high if there isn't that much real money earned to float them up up up and way!
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Old 21 May 2017, 12:31 AM   #36
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San Diego isn't on that list. Honestly, it's a moot point as far as I'm concerned. I already own a home in the city I most want to live.
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Old 21 May 2017, 12:40 AM   #37
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that said the most smug cities are the most expensive. doesnt shock me.
Funny you would go straight to smug.

One could make the point that better educated people flock to these cities and income is directly correlated to educational levels but that would sound smug, wouldn't it?
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Old 21 May 2017, 12:53 AM   #38
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My area is expensive, but it keeps out the riff raff
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Old 21 May 2017, 01:59 AM   #39
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My area is expensive, but it keeps out the riff raff
Lucky for me that I bought before my neighborhood became the exclusive province of doctors and tech entrepreneurs.
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Old 21 May 2017, 02:51 AM   #40
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I guess the point is that it is getting very expensive to own a home in a lot of different areas in the United States and Abroad. The majority of us have a home or several homes we are in, this is but a dream for may younger people just starting out after college etc.
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Old 21 May 2017, 03:58 AM   #41
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I built a 2 bedroom, 3200 sq ft home in Hillsborough CA (SFO Bay area) in 1979 for about 375,00. I see where the home recently sold for 3.8 million. That is insane but the HKG/TPE/PRC Chinese are willing to pay through the nose for these properties. I sold it in 1984 for around 650,000 and thought the buyers were crazy then.

There is a lot of high rise condo construction going on in down town SFO and buyers are mostly Chinese. They will buy 24 units in one building and live with other family members in three or four of the units leaving the others empty. Not a good deal for anyone that wants to live in the city.
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Old 21 May 2017, 04:48 AM   #42
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On paper there just is this big disconnect between salaries and home prices, such that I wondered how the prices got so high if there isn't that much real money earned to float them up up up and way!
Supply and demand + countless new homebuyers immigrating to the United States with cash lined pockets. See below.
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I built a 2 bedroom, 3200 sq ft home in Hillsborough CA (SFO Bay area) in 1979 for about 375,00. I see where the home recently sold for 3.8 million. That is insane but the HKG/TPE/PRC Chinese are willing to pay through the nose for these properties. I sold it in 1984 for around 650,000 and thought the buyers were crazy then.

There is a lot of high rise condo construction going on in down town SFO and buyers are mostly Chinese. They will buy 24 units in one building and live with other family members in three or four of the units leaving the others empty. Not a good deal for anyone that wants to live in the city.
Short-distance shopping conveniences, relatively safe neighborhoods and high-quality public education districts are the primary draws. Much of this demographic phenomena is occurring in the mid to upper middle class suburbs of Silicon Valley and the San Francisco Bay Area. Fortunately the ongoing and massive influx of moneyed immigrants (bearing CASH upfront in lieu of traditional 10-20% residential down payments towards homes) hasn't significantly permeated into many of the more rural and pastoral settings in Marin and San Mateo Counties. The appeal of a moderately secluded bucolic residential environment hasn't caught on with a majority of them. Yet.
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Old 21 May 2017, 11:35 AM   #43
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i read this. the problem is there are lots of areas in these cities that i wouldnt live in if you paid me.

that said the most smug cities are the most expensive. doesnt shock me.
Haha, one good example is right smack dab in the middle of the Seattle area, its the City of Tukwila, recently found to be the most dangerous city in the entire US of A as announced by the home security consultant website: Safewise.

Check this out:http://www.king5.com/news/crime/tukw...city/207439003
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Old 21 May 2017, 11:46 AM   #44
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My area is expensive, but it keeps out the riff raff
Define "riff raff??" Wow.
Elitism rules!!

And you have a nice wallet to boot!
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Old 21 May 2017, 11:50 AM   #45
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The median salary won't buy a home in SF, or most communities around SF.
Buying a home on median would require a large down payment (achieved with a windfall from vesting of stock options), or dual incomes, or one large income (which many people make). The median is the "midpoint" of a statistical distribution, meaning 50% of the population make higher than 128K and 50% make lower than 128K
(for a software engineer position).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleetlord View Post
What do people really earn in SF?

I see the salary range numbers and they seem too low to support the housing values..

They must be considerably higher than the generic $128K software engineer salary that is listed for SF on Glassdoor and where ever...
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Old 21 May 2017, 12:34 PM   #46
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Define "riff raff??" Wow.

Elitism rules!!



And you have a nice wallet to boot!


I like most of your posts but you're baiting. Fair question from a lawman all things considered
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Old 21 May 2017, 12:37 PM   #47
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Of course, money is no object to some of us.
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Old 21 May 2017, 12:48 PM   #48
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Haha, one good example is right smack dab in the middle of the Seattle area, its the City of Tukwila, recently found to be the most dangerous city in the entire US of A as announced by the home security consultant website: Safewise.

Check this out:http://www.king5.com/news/crime/tukw...city/207439003
Fun fact: Seattle's Ethiopian and Somalian refugees are concentrated in this area. But I am sure those two facts have no correlation at all.
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Old 22 May 2017, 02:41 AM   #49
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That's got to be the biggest piece of fake news this week. Not saying the place is Eden but I can think of many other cities that are a LOT more dangerous and your chance of getting robbed or murdered are significantly higher. Nor am I aware of any significant crimes that have been attributed to either of these ethnic groups?

Bottom line: This guy must be trying to sell you something.....
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Old 22 May 2017, 02:53 AM   #50
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I guess people didn't notice the emoticon at the end of my humorous statement.

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I like most of your posts but you're baiting. Fair question from a lawman all things considered
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Old 22 May 2017, 03:21 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Chronoseeker View Post
Haha, one good example is right smack dab in the middle of the Seattle area, its the City of Tukwila, recently found to be the most dangerous city in the entire US of A as announced by the home security consultant website: Safewise.

Check this out:http://www.king5.com/news/crime/tukw...city/207439003
Every coin has two sides. I returned to my car after a meal in Idaho and found KKK literature on my windshield.

That was truly disturbing.

Not exactly a high crime area per se but pretty scary stuff for me.

Doubtful that it shows as dangerous on Safewise.
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Old 22 May 2017, 04:54 AM   #52
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Fun fact: Seattle's Ethiopian and Somalian refugees are concentrated in this area. But I am sure those two facts have no correlation at all.
Sometimes it's difficult to accurately correlate increased crime rates with current immigration trends. This Seattle-based reference must be somewhat recent as the Minneapolis/St. Cloud areas are far more known for their predominance of Somali-refugee related crime (gang affiliations, rape, drug dealing et al).

Assimilation into mainstream American culture/life is probably the biggest hurdle for most of these Somali and Ethiopian refugees to overcome as many arrived here via asylum from backwards/tribal societies beginning around 1993.

The state of Minnesota is currently grappling with whether to further prosecute female genital mutilation as it is a cultural practice in countries such as Ethiopia and Somalia. While maintaining certain customs and courtesies of one's native background often serves to enrich our American cultural palette, a line has to be drawn somewhere especially when/if it conflicts with the existing laws of our country. The same goes for any individual who actively participates in 'honor killings' just because of a perceived affront to one's family. American jurisprudence should always override any questionable and dangerous cultural practices regardless of their origins. Just saying.
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Old 22 May 2017, 05:33 AM   #53
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Only thing I know.... is that FINALLY, after about seven years, I am above water on my place. I purchased at the peak prices right before the bubble burst, (great timing) and was almost two 200K underwater within a matter of months. Nice huh? Six months ago I refinanced to get out of my interest-only terrible loan, got a great rate 30 year fixed and discovered I have 40K plus equity in my place. FINALLY and alleluia!!!!!! !
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Old 22 May 2017, 06:26 AM   #54
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Most people in SF either 1) became homeowners at a time when the prices were still attainable...
And let's not forget that property taxes also increase with the inflationary values of any dwelling/property. At 1%, a typical CA homeowner is paying close to $25K per annum on a $2.5M home. Considering where these tax revenues are supposedly being allocated (i.e. city/county services, street/road repairs and public facilities etc.) this often amounts to very little in terms of an actual return.

Fortunately for some, the Jarvis-Gann Act of 1978 froze property taxes at their earlier assessment rates and there are folks in our neighborhood who pay anywhere from $1500 to $25K yearly for essentially the same house (depending upon when they purchased it). Then again, a majority of the current home purchasers are making far more money than most did in 1978 so in a way, maybe they should be paying higher property taxes.

In addition, a majority of the senior residents in the neighborhood almost always vote against school tax/bond issues as well, citing the fact that their kids have already grown up and that they bear no fiscal responsibility for other people's kids.

Bottom line. Even if you happen to own your own home, with all of these additional expenses (e.g. property taxes, repairs/maintenance et al) you're still essentially renting it until the grim reaper (or a foreclosure agent) calls you aside.
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Old 22 May 2017, 08:12 AM   #55
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And let's not forget that property taxes also increase with the inflationary values of any dwelling/property. At 1%, a typical CA homeowner is paying close to $25K per annum on a $2.5M home. Considering where these tax revenues are supposedly being allocated (i.e. city/county services, street/road repairs and public facilities etc.) this often amounts to very little in terms of an actual return.

Fortunately for some, the Jarvis-Gann Act of 1978 froze property taxes at their earlier assessment rates and there are folks in our neighborhood who pay anywhere from $1500 to $25K yearly for essentially the same house (depending upon when they purchased it). Then again, a majority of the current home purchasers are making far more money than most did in 1978 so in a way, maybe they should be paying higher property taxes.

In addition, a majority of the senior residents in the neighborhood almost always vote against school tax/bond issues as well, citing the fact that their kids have already grown up and that they bear no fiscal responsibility for other people's kids.

Bottom line. Even if you happen to own your own home, with all of these additional expenses (e.g. property taxes, repairs/maintenance et al) you're still essentially renting it until the grim reaper (or a foreclosure agent) calls you aside.
You can almost double that 1% tax rate for newer communities that have mello-Roos. Then add in HOA that can be $300-$1000 per month and with no mortgage you're still paying $3k+ per month.
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Old 22 May 2017, 12:16 PM   #56
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And let's not forget that property taxes also increase with the inflationary values of any dwelling/property. At 1%, a typical CA homeowner is paying close to $25K per annum on a $2.5M home. Considering where these tax revenues are supposedly being allocated (i.e. city/county services, street/road repairs and public facilities etc.) this often amounts to very little in terms of an actual return.
If there's a silver lining, it's that these taxes have a dampening effect on speculative investment
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