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Old 18 February 2023, 05:56 AM   #121
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Wow! This thread has sure turned up some intense opinions. Why don't we change the subject to something more mundane we can all agree on, like Electric Vehicles for example.




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Old 18 February 2023, 06:01 AM   #122
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Wow! This thread has sure turned up some intense opinions. Why don't we change the subject to something more mundane we can all agree on, like Electric Vehicles for example.

I think less mundane was the point of the rules change.
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Old 18 February 2023, 06:13 AM   #123
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You're on a forum dedicated to Rolex watches and think seats are too high?
You think regardless of the forum you’re on that Baseball is purely a sport and not in the entertainment business. Especially when a good number of these professional athletes are making insane amounts of money to just play sports. Pretty sure Football figured this out maybe that’s why baseball finds itself in the place it is today.

Yes, I’m on a Rolex Forum and I think ticket prices are ridiculous for which I can find numerous other things that I would be better entertained.
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Old 18 February 2023, 06:17 AM   #124
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Wow, and I thought he laid it out fairly well and went about it in a fairly polite way.

I do think if baseball didn’t charge so much for seats maybe more of us might be able to think of this as more just a pure sport rather than a business.
Come to Tampa, plenty of cheap seats!
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Old 18 February 2023, 06:20 AM   #125
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Come to Tampa, plenty of cheap seats!
Yeah, I imagine they are.

No matter the sport a losing team isn’t that entertaining.
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Old 18 February 2023, 06:39 AM   #126
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Part of the problem baseball really never addressed completely that football figured out long ago is the product overall is better when all the teams had a more equal chance of being better. Granted the dynamics of the two sports where different but the fact remains the more competition the better the sport and the entertainment.
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Old 18 February 2023, 06:43 AM   #127
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Yeah, well, the only thing that has produced the same excitement and emotions over the past years as baseball for me is World Cup soccer (football). But in terms of the pure human drama of pitcher/batter, nothing compares to baseball. I guess I have a different definition of excitement when it comes to sports. One that doesn’t revolve around the spectacles of half-time shows and commercials and brute force.
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Old 18 February 2023, 06:44 AM   #128
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Yeah, I imagine they are.

No matter the sport a losing team isn’t that entertaining.
It's actually opposite though, the Rays have been to the playoffs the last 4 years and the World Series in 2020.

Baseball is just not that popular here. The stadium and stadium location seem to have a lot to do with it.
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Old 18 February 2023, 06:46 AM   #129
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It's actually opposite though, the Rays have been to the playoffs the last 4 years and the World Series in 2020.

Baseball is just not that popular here. The stadium and stadium location seem to have a lot to do with it.
Yeah sorry, I know I said earlier I no longer follow sports. Well it’s showing now.
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Old 18 February 2023, 06:50 AM   #130
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Yeah, well, the only thing that has produced the same excitement and emotions over the past years as baseball for me is World Cup soccer (football). But in terms of the pure human drama of pitcher/batter, nothing compares to baseball. I guess I have a different definition of excitement when it comes to sports. One that doesn’t revolve around the spectacles of half-time shows and commercials and brute force.
I agree on the World Cup … that was insanely dramatic.

I probably appreciate the dual between tennis players the most, as they grind out break points and the like to win a championship or maybe golfers who are arguably the toughest mentally.

I’m also partial to hockey given where I grew up and live
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Old 18 February 2023, 06:56 AM   #131
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i think one of the biggest problems with baseball is their marketing. the sport is so conservative and the players have no personalities because they're not really allowed to. there's no reason the nfl, which is a sport played in helmets and full gear, has more marketable and known players than baseball

in today's world, college basketball and football propects that are 16/17 years old have much bigger social media followings than most top mlb players. Trout, who is arguably the best player in baseball in the last decade+, has 2M followers on ig and is one of the most boring guys in pro sports, meanwhile you have a 20 year old on the worst team in the nba with 2.5m followers

i love baseball but it's definitely an acquired taste. you can't just flip it on and expect to be drawn in by the action. it's much more of a psychological sport and the fun comes from the suspense and anxiety that happens in between pitches in crucial moments, but these changes should speed the game up a bit for sure
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Old 18 February 2023, 06:56 AM   #132
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It's actually opposite though, the Rays have been to the playoffs the last 4 years and the World Series in 2020.

Baseball is just not that popular here. The stadium and stadium location seem to have a lot to do with it.

I don’t get it. I love the trop. It’s a quick 30 minutes from my office, it can be raining or 100 degrees outside and I’m a comfy 72 degrees in the trop. There is never a rain out or you being miserable sweating your tail off at the trop. This is in any seat in the house except behind the catwalk (catwalk seats suck). Which ironically is the most expensive seats and worst seats I’ve ever had were for game two of the World Series in 08 and they were upper deck right behind the catwalk. 3 tickets cost me a grand back then.

I don’t understand the issue with the stadium that everyone else seems to mention. For reference the Bucs had a terrible time getting season ticket holders until late. They had a great deal the year before Brady came and you could get season tickets for like $3000. Does their lack of attendance and following also revolve around the stadium?


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Old 18 February 2023, 07:00 AM   #133
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The game has not changed but people have. Maybe not the fans, but most others and their expectations have.
Wrong. The game has gotten 45 minutes longer than it was in the 70's. Look it up.

The game has changed tremendously...pitchers have gotten weaker and rarely pitch complete games (which used to be common), stealing bases has become a lost art, hitting for average has disappeared, strikeouts are at all time highs, pitching changes happen at double the rate they used to, etc., etc.

Attendance has dropped considerably since the late 90's. The product has gotten worse, and I'm not sure that's even debatable.
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Old 18 February 2023, 07:06 AM   #134
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pitchers have gotten weaker
No
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Old 18 February 2023, 07:08 AM   #135
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Wrong. The game has gotten 45 minutes longer than it was in the 70's. Look it up.

The game has changed tremendously...pitchers have gotten weaker and rarely pitch complete games (which used to be common), stealing bases has become a lost art, hitting for average has disappeared, strikeouts are at all time highs, pitching changes happen at double the rate they used to, etc., etc.

Attendance has dropped considerably since the late 90's. The product has gotten worse, and I'm not sure that's even debatable.
Good point
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Old 18 February 2023, 07:09 AM   #136
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I don’t get it. I love the trop. It’s a quick 30 minutes from my office, it can be raining or 100 degrees outside and I’m a comfy 72 degrees in the trop. There is never a rain out or you being miserable sweating your tail off at the trop. This is in any seat in the house except behind the catwalk (catwalk seats suck). Which ironically is the most expensive seats and worst seats I’ve ever had were for game two of the World Series in 08 and they were upper deck right behind the catwalk. 3 tickets cost me a grand back then.

I don’t understand the issue with the stadium that everyone else seems to mention. For reference the Bucs had a terrible time getting season ticket holders until late. They had a great deal the year before Brady came and you could get season tickets for like $3000. Does their lack of attendance and following also revolve around the stadium?


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everyone who lives in tampa says it's too out of the way from everything else. i believe statistics back up the fact that there's a very small % of tampa residents living within a 30 minute radius of the stadium. obviously i can't speak on it but looking at the map it doesn't look like they're wrong

30 minutes seems far for places where commuting isn't the norm. here in nyc a 30m commute is really short and wouldn't interfere with plans, but i imagine in states where people drive 10-15 mins to work every day that anything other than that gets in their way, especially if it's not an easily accessible commute
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Old 18 February 2023, 07:11 AM   #137
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No
If your response is just yes or no it’s rather difficult to even consider that you have a good point to begin with.
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Old 18 February 2023, 07:13 AM   #138
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If your response is just yes or no it’s rather difficult to even consider that you have a viable point to begin with.
I was too busy cackling.
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Old 18 February 2023, 07:17 AM   #139
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everyone who lives in tampa says it's too out of the way from everything else. obviously i can't speak on it but looking at the map it doesn't look like they're wrong

30 minutes seems far for places where commuting isn't the norm. here in nyc a 30m commute is really short and wouldn't interfere with plans, but i imagine in states where people drive 10-15 mins to work every day that anything other than that gets in their way, especially if it's not an easily accessible commute

Downtown Tampa to the trop is 21.9 miles of 99% highway traffic. I don’t buy that as an excuse unless you factor in traffic. But the traffic has never been an issue for me.


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Old 18 February 2023, 07:24 AM   #140
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Downtown Tampa to the trop is 21.9 miles of 99% highway traffic. I don’t buy that as an excuse unless you factor in traffic. But the traffic has never been an issue for me.


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this is from 2014 but still applies according to recent stats. the trop has the lowest population within a 30 minute radius than any other mlb team. look at the Lightning and how they're selling out almost every night in the least popular of the 4 major sports. location matters a lot. FL is also not a baseball state so that only adds to it

https://community.fangraphs.com/the-...lb-attendance/
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Old 18 February 2023, 07:27 AM   #141
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I love the trop and the touch tank there
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Old 18 February 2023, 07:29 AM   #142
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Downtown Tampa to the trop is 21.9 miles of 99% highway traffic. I don’t buy that as an excuse unless you factor in traffic. But the traffic has never been an issue for me.


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Either way, Tropicana Field is rated as one of the worst stadiums in baseball. Just do a google search of worst baseball stadiums, and it always ranks in the bottom 5. It's not just one or 2 either, it's dozens and dozens of rankings.

Not sure it matters though, because Miami's new stadium is gorgeous, and they draw less fans than Tampa.
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Old 18 February 2023, 07:37 AM   #143
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I was too busy cackling.
Why don't you look up how many innings the average starting pitcher pitches per game now vs. 30 or 40 years ago. Or how many innings per season they pitch. Or how many starts they make per season. Or how many pitches per start. Or how many pitchers it takes to finish a 9 inning game.

It seems like you are too emotional about this topic to look at the facts. Obviously we aren't talking about bench press.

Clayton Kershaw, Justin Verlander, and Zack Grienke...3 of the best pitchers of this generation, have a grand total of 68 complete games combined. That puts them at 647 on the career list. COMBINED. Let that sink in. The best players of the 60's-90's would have almost as many in one season as they have had in their career.

I'd love to hear how pitchers today aren't verifiably weaker today than they were in baseball's golden years. Post up some stats for us...
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Old 18 February 2023, 07:40 AM   #144
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Why don't you look up how many innings the average starting pitcher pitches per game now vs. 30 or 40 years ago. Or how many innings per season they pitch. Or how many starts they make per season. Or how many pitches per start. Or how many pitchers it takes to finish a 9 inning game.

It seems like you are too emotional about this topic to look at the facts. Obviously we aren't talking about bench press.

Clayton Kershaw, Justin Verlander, and Zack Grienke...3 of the best pitchers of this generation, have a grand total of 68 complete games combined. That puts them at 647 on the career list. COMBINED. Let that sink in. The best players of the 60's-90's would have almost as many in one season as they have had in their career.

I'd love to hear how pitchers today aren't verifiably weaker today than they were in baseball's golden years. Post up some stats for us...
I know the game extremely well and know one of those guys personally.
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Old 18 February 2023, 07:42 AM   #145
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Either way, Tropicana Field is rated as one of the worst stadiums in baseball. Just do a google search of worst baseball stadiums, and it always ranks in the bottom 5. It's not just one or 2 either, it's dozens and dozens of rankings.

Not sure it matters though, because Miami's new stadium is gorgeous, and they draw less fans than Tampa.

I understand that. Trust me, it’s been beat in to all of our heads in this area for the last 15 yrs.

I just don’t get it. It’s not falling apart. I never have an issue with a rain out. I’m not sweating my butt off at any game. There are very few bad seats in the house. Its easily accessible and mostly highway traffic to get to.


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Old 18 February 2023, 07:43 AM   #146
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Either way, Tropicana Field is rated as one of the worst stadiums in baseball. Just do a google search of worst baseball stadiums, and it always ranks in the bottom 5. It's not just one or 2 either, it's dozens and dozens of rankings.

Not sure it matters though, because Miami's new stadium is gorgeous, and they draw less fans than Tampa.
Marlins suck every year and their front office doesn't seem to care but besides that is the location good? i don't know much about Miami but from what i've read it's a rough area and looks like it's in the complete opposite direction of anywhere you'd wanna be in Miami. the heat have top 5 attendance in the nba and their stadium is right by the water, but they're also a good team so it makes sense
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Old 18 February 2023, 07:47 AM   #147
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Marlins suck every year and their front office doesn't seem to care but besides that is the location good? i don't know much about Miami but from what i've read it's a rough area and looks like it's in the complete opposite direction of anywhere you'd wanna be in Miami. the heat have top 5 attendance in the nba and their stadium is right by the water, but they're also a good team so it makes sense

Yeah, I’m not sure. It could be a rough area. Doesn’t look like there is any parking or highways near it either.


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Old 18 February 2023, 07:50 AM   #148
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Anyone else see the national Corn-Hole championship? WOW! Talk about action!!!!




PS, that's a real sport by the way
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Old 18 February 2023, 08:03 AM   #149
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Anyone else see the national Corn-Hole championship? WOW! Talk about action!!!!




PS, that's a real sport by the way

Is it sponsored by an EV manufacturer?

LOL


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Old 18 February 2023, 08:48 AM   #150
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I am not really a baseball fan but I think these would be a good one for the game.
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