Seeking help from the vintage experts - 1910/20s Rolex, rebranded as Rolco

[JimmyD12]

Hi everyone. Having reached the 10 post minimum, this is my first thread here and I hope you can help cast some light on a curious watch.

Backstory:
this is a purchase from a provincial auction house. All I know is that it came from a house clearance - nothing more.
When I saw it from a few feet away, I thought it was a 1910s Rolex Trench with an obviously bent stem/crown. On picking it up, I saw it was branded Rolco though it housed a very nicely decorated Aegler/Rebberg movement. No visible signature but the wheels are signed Rolex and it turned out to be a 7 jewel movement, rather than 15. In addition to the obvious damage with the stem/crown which meant it couldn't be wound there was also obvious damage to the second wheel. Still, it spoke to me. It spoke to someone else too and I had to over-pay to get an internet bidder out of the running.

Skip forward a year and the watch is in the tender caress of a second watch maker (the first having returned it being unable to acquire the requisite parts) and it's running well. However, he sent me a photograph of the dial along with a few questions.

So, let's show you what we're talking about.

This is the watch as I bought it:

And then as it stood after a gentle clean along with the other things I bought that day:

I didn't do anything else with the watch except search for parts online and contact some of the watchmakers that I use.
Cut to Thursday and Phil sent me a message on WhatsApp along with a couple of photos. The message was asking if I'd noticed the word ROLEX underneath ROLCO?



If it helps, there's also a photo of the dial side of the movement here but I don't have the other side photographed and I don't have the watch in hand either:


So, here's our theory. There's no reason for anyone to later redial the watch and change the branding from Rolex to Rolco. You could understand someone doing this the other way around but the ghost text is clearly underneath "ROLCO". We know that Rolco came about in 1927 but that doesn't tally with the style of case. Also, this is a big watch (for the time) at around 35-6mm, so it's not a ladies' watch which might still have used that style. That leads us to think that this was one of three things:

1) a salesman's sample;
2) NOS stock, in the factory either having never been despatched or having been returned/bought back, that was no longer fashionable in the late 1920s and so rebranded as ROLCO in order to sell the watch; or,
3) the one that I like least ... this is a "prototype". I like this least because every claimed prototype I've ever seen has turned out to be something else.

To the questions:
can anyone cast light on the watch itself either owning or knowing of something similar whether it's signed Rolex, Marconi, Rolco or anything else;

can anyone give accurate manufacturing dates based on the numbers? The movement bears the number 2585; the case carries the number 3721. There are no hallmarks but there is a stamp saying "Buffalo Quality", which I'm guessing means the case is rolled gold; and,

do we have anyone here who's spent time looking at the early Rolex sub-brands and can add anything else at all?

Look forward to any and all input and Merry Christmas to those who celebrate it.

[JimmyD12]

I should also add:
I really don't like the "SWISS MADE" nor the fit of the print in the subdial. If you all shout "redial", I won't be surprised or upset but it still doesn't help explain the watch.

[Vlad]

Here's a very similar UNICORN model. Name "Unicorn" was used by Rolex from 1919 to 1933. So, this watch is definately from the 1920s. I believe it to be from mid to late 1920s. Thus, your "ROLCO" is probably correct. and, yes, it's about 36mm

[JimmyD12]

Thanks for taking the time to reply, Vlad.

Your Unicorn does seem to have the same case and movement (and the same issue with the crown). You've a nice rose turned dial but the same "issue" with the printing on the subdial. Yours is missing "SWISS MADE", which I would expect to be correct.

So, all told, I think you've made me happy that the watch is correct but still leaves the puzzle that is the original "ROLEX" having been changed to "ROLCO" along with the "SWISS MADE" text.

[JimmyD12]

I picked this watch up today ... damn thing's gaining a second a day!

Seeing as there's only been one comment, I thought I would add what I have found: bottom line is that this appears to be all original and one of the very first Rolcos that was originally built as a Rolex but had its brand changed in factory.

Vlad's post above already shows that the style of case is correct for the date, along with the mis-aligned print on the subdial.

The "SWISS MADE" print had me concerned both because of the date and the way that it doesn't follow the seconds track well. Today, my watchmaker pulled out this Unicorn dial:

The font on that dial and on mine is identical. The Unicorn dial is smaller than the Rolco but the size of the text is the same on both. It looks like that accounts for why the text doesn't follow the seconds track correctly but, again, is correct for the make and date.

The movement is odd. You would expect to find a Begeulin movement inside this case but this is a Rebberg. That said, it's not decorated as you would expect to see in a Rolex of this period (my earlier comment that it was must be my early-onset and some confusion with another vintage Rolex - I've had a few lately). More than that, it's not fully jeweled with only 7 jewels. That said, it does carry the name Rolex on the wheel.

So, we've got a watch that was made with an Aegler movement, though a lower grade than would be expected in a Rolex; that was originally signed as Rolex; and, also had a Rolex signed dial. That dial was altered before the watch was sold.

All of this fits in if you say that the watch was, quite literally, the first run of Rolcos off the line - maybe not even off the "line", but a true one-off to trial the new brand name. A "prototype", if you will.

[R.W.T.]

There's no brand change.

I see nothing awry about that watch at all really.

Wilsdorf was doing all kinds of things...at the time....you will NEVER find any real rhyme or reason to any timeline of any sorts...from the early days.

Wilsdorf even made his OWN brand of watches in Rolex cases...from lesser grade movements by Beguelin and signed the movements Hans Wilsdorf Geneva. Nothing makes any real sense...so trying to make sense out of it...leads to more confusion.

Rolex was a contracting entity....with very little built in house at that time.

The movement is a Rebberg. it's typical of the lesser watches...and sub brands...in later years, though they did also find themselves into even Rolex Oyster Models from time to time in the later production...in late 20's and 30's....concurrent with higher grade Aegler calibres. Can we see the back of the movement? Rebberg was the movement of choice for the main Rolex ligne in the teens and early 20's...but...as the better Aegler calibres became the choice they found their way into use with the sub brands it seems. He used lots of ebauches...Beguelin, Fontmelon, Felsa, Rebberg...

Also you note that it is 7 jewel...you would find the lower jewel counts in the lesser brands...very likely.

Looks like a typical 13 ligne trench watch with Rolco dial.

If it is running and running well, bend down and kiss the ground you stand on and don't ever drop it... because 99% of the time they don't and it's a miserable watch to work on.

The watch looks to be in excellent shape...the dial is original to me...and that in and of itself condition wise...along with the case condition etc...lends to the reason why it still runs well...it wasn't abused and probably not worn a lot. This may be also attributable to the bent crown/stem situation...that happened and the watch was put up....and preserved by accident. :-)

[JimmyD12]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

There's no brand change.

Can we see the back of the movement?

You can absolutely see both sides of the movement:



But you don't think there was any brand change? The ghost of the word "ROLEX" is the real part that has me most confused.

As for the condition, she's been sitting on my desk for more than a day now and gained almost 3 seconds. She's developing a slight patina on the dial and there's a minor rub near the crown ... other than that, she's near mint having benefitted from a couple of parts from a Unicorn movement from the same maker. Total repair cost ... you might want to sit down for this ... was £25.

EDIT: that photo made me reach for the watch and a loupe .... there's nothing wrong with the ratchet wheel, just a really weird shadow!

[R.W.T.]

I had to go back and re reread the OP...I now see what you are talking about...with the overprint on the dial. Kind of odd...admittedly.

No explanation.

Now I see your quandary.

Anything is possible. The movement is very plain and not highly damascened like the typical 15 jewel version that one typically finds in the Rolex trench watches and as you noted is 7 jewel....more typical or Unicorn...Rolco...but none of that

has any total consistency either..

Mysteries....if it fits it ships...?

[JimmyD12]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

The movement is very plain and not highly damascened like the typical 15 jewel version that one typically finds in the Rolex trench watches and as you noted is 7 jewel....more typical or Unicorn...Rolco...but none of that

has any total consistency either..

This is where I was: if the movement was decorated, was 15 jewel, then I could convince myself that this was a Rolex that was changed, in house, and rebranded as a Rolco as a sample or first run. As it stands, perhaps the dial was made with the intention of being fitted into a Rolex case (maybe even completed as a Rolex watch?) and then reprinted with the lower grade movement added ... again, this points to a first run or prototype Rolco.

What I'm struggling with is the print on the dial - I can't find either a Rolex, Rolco (or Unicorn, Marconi or anything else) with that layout. If I could find an earlier Rolex with the same dial, I would be absolutely convinced of the theory. What I did find, just yesterday, was a Unicorn dial with the same "SWISS MADE" print.

More evidence would be wonderful but, as it stands, I am pretty much as sure as I can be that this is one of the very first Rolcos produced though I am unsure if it was part of a first run or an assemblage/prototype to trial the name.