Goodbye AP ADs

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by falkenauge

Guys, I work for Bucherer (Europe‘s and now also America‘s biggest watch retailer) and last week AP visited us to show and explain the new watches for 2018. There‘s a lot to come (many ROO) and the AD (at least Bucherer) still plays a key role for AP.

thats good to know. Hope it continues.

[Lordofrolex]

Originally Posted by dpj17

I don't believe the grey dealers will go away it will simply change, and yes, prices will go up in the short term. The boutiques will begin to sell direct to the grey guys, gobbling up all of the margin. However, they are very smart at packaging up turds with hard to get models assuming the grey guy can maybe get his money out of the dud after a while but flip a plat/ti. jumbo for big bucks.

The boutique will no longer sell watches to grey dealers they are company owned stores and would not want to be undercut by great dealers. Only AD sell to grey dealers to get rid of inventory.

The way grey dealers got inventory is because to be a watch AD from a particular brand. You have to order a minimum amount of watches from the company a year. Theres no way the companies can offload that many watches so they sell to grey dealers at almost cost to get those watches off the books.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Lordofrolex

The boutique will no longer sell watches to grey dealers they are company owned stores and would not want to be undercut by great dealers. Only AD sell to grey dealers to get rid of inventory.

The way grey dealers got inventory is because to be a watch AD from a particular brand. You have to order a minimum amount of watches from the company a year. Theres no way the companies can offload that many watches so they sell to grey dealers at almost cost to get those watches off the books.

there are a few examples ive seen where grey market watches have APSC clearwater AD stamps on them. There was an elephant a few weeks ago that went from APSC to reseller to end user. It was BNIB, not a used watch from what i remember.

Secondary market will remain but it will help. I support the brand control of inventory as grey watches and discounts hurt value retention.

[dpj17]

Originally Posted by Lordofrolex

The boutique will no longer sell watches to grey dealers they are company owned stores and would not want to be undercut by great dealers. Only AD sell to grey dealers to get rid of inventory.

The way grey dealers got inventory is because to be a watch AD from a particular brand. You have to order a minimum amount of watches from the company a year. Theres no way the companies can offload that many watches so they sell to grey dealers at almost cost to get those watches off the books.

Boutiques already sell to grey guys. Not to mention the inventory that goes direct out the back door - with the manufacturer warranty. I know how the AD business model works, it is a necessary evil that the brands turn a blind eye to. Do not put the brands themselves above employing such a practice.

[chunkythebulldog]

Originally Posted by AshAP

It is an option, Owen & Robinson in Leeds are retaining their AD status.


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I was in Saturday looking at this boutique only AP RO. If they were going down the boutique only distribution channel then why supply an AD with a boutique only watch?

IMG_53.jpg

[Watcheroo]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

im really trying to keep AP watches and the London retail operation separate and clearly not doing a good job. London is my frame of reference not any other market. My wider strategy issues are London centered in how i feel they affect things here.

My issue is not with any product.

Thank you for clarifying

[V25V]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

there are a few examples ive seen where grey market watches have APSC clearwater AD stamps on them. There was an elephant a few weeks ago that went from APSC to reseller to end user. It was BNIB, not a used watch from what i remember.

Secondary market will remain but it will help. I support the brand control of inventory as grey watches and discounts hurt value retention.

I remember that posting..... guy was worried it didnt have a signature in the book. I had always wondered how these gray market dealers had these BNIB pieces. Was somewhat disappointing to see it to be honest but guess I always suspected this was the case, just upset to see the confirmation. Why not just list them direct to buyers at set prices when they are trying to unload them? I would likely buy more at prices gray dealers are getting them at.

[dpj17]

Originally Posted by chunkythebulldog

I was in Saturday looking at this boutique only AP RO. If they were going down the boutique only distribution channel then why supply an AD with a boutique only watch?

Attachment 926905

RG is not a boutique only version of the 15202

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by chunkythebulldog

I was in Saturday looking at this boutique only AP RO. If they were going down the boutique only distribution channel then why supply an AD with a boutique only watch?



Attachment 926905

You were in O&R? I was there too.


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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by chunkythebulldog

I was in Saturday looking at this boutique only AP RO. If they were going down the boutique only distribution channel then why supply an AD with a boutique only watch?

the SS is the boutique only model.

[Watcheroo]

Originally Posted by AshAP

You’re quite right and I apologise, this whole AP bashing thread has brought out the worst in me.


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It almost brought out the worst in me too. I admire your apology

[chunkythebulldog]

Originally Posted by dpj17

RG is not a boutique only version of the 15202

That's what they told me, never trust a salesman. So boutique only is St St blue dial?

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by chunkythebulldog

That's what they told me, never trust a salesman. So boutique only is St St blue dial?

yep

most blue dials have been boutique only in SS historically, until some of the recent releases which are not, but im not sure most AD's actually get many of them if at all.

[chunkythebulldog]

Originally Posted by AshAP

You were in O&R? I was there too.


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Yes was in about 10:30. Called in mainly to look at a Datograph that one of their customers had just pulled out of buying. Lovely watch

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by chunkythebulldog

Yes was in about 10:30. Called in mainly to look at a Datograph that one of their customers had just pulled out of buying. Lovely watch

Yes they were quite upset about that!


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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by chunkythebulldog

Yes was in about 10:30. Called in mainly to look at a Datograph that one of their customers had just pulled out of buying. Lovely watch

thats a brand that needs to control discounting. I think the watch objectively is probably worth the retail price. Problem is no one pays it. Value retention is bad because of it. Its my grail.

[chunkythebulldog]

Originally Posted by AshAP

Yes they were quite upset about that!


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Unfortunately my watch budget is blown for a while otherwise I might have been tempted

[chunkythebulldog]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

thats a brand that needs to control discounting. I think the watch objectively is probably worth the retail price. Problem is no one pays it. Value retention is bad because of it. Its my grail.

I always thought you couldn't get much off a Lange, what sort of discount would you be looking at?

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by chunkythebulldog

I always thought you couldn't get much off a Lange, what sort of discount would you be looking at?

i was offered 15 in london without even asking about 6 months ago. ive heard its getting tighter, but i was not buying and was not even attempting a negotiation. Just small talk when trying it on.

15 plus a vat refund for a tourist and that is basically the depreciation right there. as thats ballpark of BNIB grey prices.

Thats my hesitation. I would be more inclined to buy if everyone paid retail. with that kind of money involved a level playing field makes me less hesitant. I buy from AD's not resellers but with a giant price gap between them, its hard to justify.

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

i was offered 15 in london without even asking about 6 months ago. ive heard its getting tighter, but i was not buying and was not even attempting a negotiation. Just small talk when trying it on.

I don’t think O&R would do any more than 10%, that would be my max anyway.

I agree with Tyler, the very friendly guy at Harrods Lange seemed overly keen to move the conversation on to pricing without me even asking.


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[Ballzzz]

So AP boutiques are owned entirely by AP, unlike Rolex boutiques which are still owned by a third party?

[SMD]

Originally Posted by P2725TMB

I'm with you on this. I only bought my first AP just over a year ago (and now have three), but I've been very well treated thus far and made to feel valued by the brand. This said, I've never slagged off AP and, although I don't like any of the 2018 releases (except for one out of my comfort zone, price wise), continue to be excited by the brand and look forward to hopefully buying more APs in the future.

But, I am really fed up with all the AP slagging, particularly by those who don't own the brand. Go slag Rolex off instead, who patently deserve it right now, as they clearly do disrespect their customers.

Uh, yeah, not sure who this is directed at but others may voice an opinion as to how they have been treated, not just you.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Ballzzz

So AP boutiques are owned entirely by AP, unlike Rolex boutiques which are still owned by a third party?

that is correct. Most brands operate that way AFAIK, but with AP a boutique is brand owned with only a few exceptions. All Rolex boutiques are independent AD's except the one in geneva.

AP seems to be doing boutiques, lounges (mini boutique, non traditional store) im assuming for smaller markets with London being the weird exception, and e-commerece which has been announced. All channels are AP controlled.

[SMD]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

A lounge in Houston or a lounge in seattle makes sense to me.

There isn't a single AP AD in the PACNW

[Marciano490]

Originally Posted by SMD

Uh, yeah, not sure who this is directed at but others may voice an opinion as to how they have been treated, not just you.

Unless anyone here has Audemars or Piguet as a last name, I have no clue why anyone is taking this personally. It's a watch brand, not even a sports team.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by SMD

There isn't a single AP AD in the PACNW

yeah thats why i mentioned it. I went looking for an AP AD in seattle. To my shock there isnt one.

I keep saying AP isnt big in the US and everyone thinks it is, maybe its just me. Im from the pacific north west kind of, a little further inland, but still i had no clue what AP was until i saw Entourage. Hate to admit, but its true. AD's help people to know what this brand is unless Turtle is going to be a brand ambassador.

[DeeTee]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

that is correct. Most brands operate that way AFAIK, but with AP a boutique is brand owned with only a few exceptions. All Rolex boutiques are independent AD's except the one in geneva.

AP seems to be doing boutiques, lounges (mini boutique, non traditional store) im assuming for smaller markets with London being the weird exception, and e-commerece which has been announced. All channels are AP controlled.

Not true. The AP and RM in Beverly Hills and Las Vegas are owned and operated by Westime. Those guys are juggernauts.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by DeeTee

Not true. The AP and RM in Beverly Hills and Las Vegas are owned and operated by Westime. Those guys are juggernauts.

i know. Thats why i said with a few exceptions. HK has one too that is a joint venture. Im sure there are a few others.

AP boutique is different than Rolex boutique almost all of the time as far as control/ownership. Thats what i was getting at. Apparently they might get bought out, or so i heard here.

[tng11]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

i know. Thats why i said with a few exceptions. HK has one too that is a joint venture. Im sure there are a few others.

AP boutique is different than Rolex boutique almost all of the time.

Actually, out of 6 AP boutiques in HK, 5 are JVs and 1 is company owned.

The JV ones do not get the boutique exclusives AFAIK (e.g. the 15202), so for all intents and purposes, they are basically ADs that have a "boutique" like setup but aren't actually boutiques.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by tng11

Actually, out of 6 AP boutiques in HK, 5 are JVs and 1 is company owned.

The JV ones do not get the boutique exclusives AFAIK (e.g. the 15202), so for all intents and purposes, they are basically ADs that have a "boutique" like setup but aren't actually boutiques.

its the same owner right? or different ones. Westime has a few.

Those are the ones that are the most interesting to see what happens with. They are the in-between retailers.