5711 offers

[AK797]

Originally Posted by tng11

I am quite amazed that in hoping Patek doesn't become a one watch company, Thierry Stern's strategy seems to have completely backfired and now Patek is basically coming to be known to the new generation by the Nautilus with all the hype around it.

Indeed, in fact it's so bad even on this forum we are not allowed to always mention the N word.

£34,750 is a new high for the 5711 or $48K. That is a 10% rise on the year, so still 10% to go if the official rise is 20%.

[kingofthehill]

Originally Posted by AK797

Indeed, in fact it's so bad even on this forum we are not allowed to always mention the N word.

£34,750 is a new high for the 5711 or $48K. That is a 10% rise on the year, so still 10% to go if the official rise is 20%.

I am not sure that the primary and secondary markets are linked 1:1. Grey market dealers are likely seeking to attain as high a price as the market will bear at all points in time. The impending 20% price increase is widely known at this juncture and there have been no known changes to supply and demand dynamics - though the existence of this thread and some of the comments within it perhaps suggest we are reaching a point where existing owners would increase secondary market supply.

[tng11]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

i guess my point was more along the lines of Rolex in that if you cant get a "hot" model you can always upgrade to a similar piece at a higher price point (PM usually). You can always get a sub or gmt or sky dweller at an AD. You cant get a 5990 that easily if you want a nautilus and the 5711 waitlist is too long.

I was more, fine make the 5711, but have an "upgrade" option that is more readily available too. Shift demand to a higher margin piece. Ive actually never seen a nautilus of any kind on display anywhere. Even the ones approaching 6 figures. Absent the shifting demand, the simple pieces are just too brand defining, or at least run the risk of being that.

Good point and I agree 100% on giving people options to "upgrade" that are easier to attain. If I were in the market for a 5711, I'd much rather look to upgrade to the 5726, 5990, 5711/1R et cetera, but even those are not readily available.

The best display case I've seen so far in this crazy market was the day before Christmas at Razny's Chicago. They had 5726/1A grey dial, 5726A, 5711/1R, 5980/1R, 5980R, 5980AR, 5167R and 5164R all available for purchase in their display case (save for the 5726/1A which was offered to me out of the vault still double sealed.)

[AK797]

Originally Posted by kingofthehill

I am not sure that the primary and secondary markets are linked 1:1. Grey market dealers are likely seeking to attain as high a price as the market will bear at all points in time. The impending 20% price increase is widely known at this juncture and there have been no known changes to supply and demand dynamics - though the existence of this thread and some of the comments within it perhaps suggest we are reaching a point where existing owners would increase secondary market supply.

If supply stays the same the greys will push all the price rise onto their prices and maintain their margin. Unless demand really falls they won't have to lower their prices, but they won't rush it, they are taking their time on these pieces now, holding 5711s happily for 2/3 months.

In the UK, dealer's ask prices are moving ahead far quicker than their bid prices, so they are making more margin every time something allows them to raise their prices. It is still totally a seller's market.

[kingofthehill]

Originally Posted by AK797

If supply stays the same the greys will push all the price rise onto their prices and maintain their margin. Unless demand really falls they won't have to lower their prices, but they won't rush it, they are taking their time on these pieces now, holding 5711s happily for 2/3 months.

In the UK, dealer's ask prices are moving ahead far quicker than their bid prices, so they are making more margin every time something allows them to raise their prices. It is still totally a seller's market.

Whilst it is obviously different for larger private equity funded groups, on a broad basis, do we really believe that grey market dealers have the working capital required to become de facto investors in this way?

[tonupbklyn]

hell, OP listed it for sale (above 40k) and got pending...all within the same day!
out of control...

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by tonupbklyn

hell, OP listed it for sale (above 40k) and got pending...all within the same day!
out of control...

Buyer could have bought a similar condition datograph

The heart wants what the heart wants I suppose.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by kingofthehill

Whilst it is obviously different for larger private equity funded groups, on a broad basis, do we really believe that grey market dealers have the working capital required to become de facto investors in this way?

WF does... the amount of money they pay out to buy watches is a ridiculously large sum of cash on a daily basis. Those watches take longer to sell than to buy so they have a lot of cash tied up and still buy away. Until someone gets a "we cant buy the watch this week as we are maxed out from the bank" then ill say they dont have enough capital.

WF here sets the market and everyone else follows. There isnt a ton of undercutting their prices. They seem happy to sit on pieces that they price high.

Pretty sure they buy more watches than some of the big AD's do from watch manufacturers.

[Chiboy]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Buyer could have bought a similar condition datograph

The heart wants what the heart wants I suppose.

Damn. I know what I would have chosen...ALS.

[Defiancekofb]

Originally Posted by Watch Admirer

I would immediately sell it for 40k, put your name on the list for a brand new one at list price if you really love this boring watch. Wait, buy, resell and make continuous 10k+ profits.

That's what my plan was when I got mine, then I got the call from my AD, once I saw the watch in person, I knew I couldn't sell it at that time. Even though I could easily make $5-10k profit. But now that the secondary market has reached insane levels, I might change my tune.

Keep in mind, easier said than done, before I settled on my deposit (at my home AD) and waited 7 1/2 months for mine to arrive, I called every Patek AD in the USA, every dealer said the waiting list is 2-4 years or they only sell the 5711 to their VIP clients. So please inform us, the uninitiated where to acquire all of these readily available BNIB 5711s to flip continuously for $$$$$$, I'm all ears.

[Watch Admirer]

Originally Posted by Defiancekofb

That's what my plan was when I got mine, then I got the call from my AD, once I saw the watch in person, I knew I couldn't sell it at that time. Even though I could easily make $5-10k profit. But now that the secondary market has reached insane levels, I might change my tune.

Keep in mind, easier said than done, before I settled on my deposit (at my home AD), I called every Patek AD in the USA, every dealer said waiting list is 2-4 years or they only sell the 5711 to their VIP clients. So please inform us, the uninitiated where to acquire all of these readily available BNIB 5711s to flip continuously for $$$$$$, I'm all ears.

Hahah not readily available of course, but patience is mother of all virtues!



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[AK797]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

WF does... the amount of money they pay out to buy watches is a ridiculously large sum of cash on a daily basis. Those watches take longer to sell than to buy so they have a lot of cash tied up and still buy away. Until someone gets a "we cant buy the watch this week as we are maxed out from the bank" then ill say they dont have enough capital.

WF here sets the market and everyone else follows. There isnt a ton of undercutting their prices. They seem happy to sit on pieces that they price high.

Pretty sure they buy more watches than some of the big AD's do from watch manufacturers.

Indeed, Watchfinder are a juggernaut over here, they now have 6/7 locations from which they buy and sell and are arguably a bigger brand name now than most of the watch brands they hold.

They are probably the equivalent of Davidsw, Takuya, Tony and a couple of others combined to give some context of their influence and reach over the market, and no doubt the savvy US dealers look at UK pricing now almost like the futures market.

[remz07twos]

Originally Posted by tng11

The best display case I've seen so far in this crazy market was the day before Christmas at Razny's Chicago. They had 5726/1A grey dial, 5726A, 5711/1R, 5980/1R, 5980R, 5980AR, 5167R and 5164R all available for purchase in their display case (save for the 5726/1A which was offered to me out of the vault still double sealed.)

Strange. I was there the first week of January and don’t remember seeing any of these 🙃

[tng11]

Originally Posted by remz07twos

Strange. I was there the first week of January and don’t remember seeing any of these ��

It was the downtown location... also very possible they sold them all!

[JorgeCCW]

I am kind of glad that i am out of the Nautilus market, the only Nautilus that I like is the 5711/1r and i wouldn't buy it anyways because i am terrible with the nautilus gold bezel. I would destroy it in 2-3 months

[ap1]

What happens if new model (no seconds / small seconds etc) is released Basel 18. Maybe that’s why refunding deposits / Saying no supply. Is that the new tulip and our trusty 11s
Good back to 30ish. Maybe white stays as is and blue gets makeover. Who knows what’s going on anymore but this craze may continue if truly pinched supply. Anecdotally I’ve had dealers mention
Checking history etc on 5711/12 so maybe stern will approve etc like Tyler’s pilot. This notion of clipping profits and hopping in another list won’t fly. That’s my hesitation on moving mine as I think you have to be ok with NEVER getting new from AD again.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by JorgeCCW

I am kind of glad that i am out of the Nautilus market, the only Nautilus that I like is the 5711/1r and i wouldn't buy it anyways because i am terrible with the nautilus gold bezel. I would destroy it in 2-3 months

I tested your 64R bezel and mine at the ADs today and turns out the Nautilus bezel is tougher so you're golden.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by ap1

What happens if new model (no seconds / small seconds etc) is released Basel 18. Maybe that’s why refunding deposits / Saying no supply. Is that the new tulip and our trusty 11s
Good back to 30ish. Maybe white stays as is and blue gets makeover. Who knows what’s going on anymore but this craze may continue if truly pinched supply. Anecdotally I’ve had dealers mention
Checking history etc on 5711/12 so maybe stern will approve etc like Tyler’s pilot. This notion of clipping profits and hopping in another list won’t fly. That’s my hesitation on moving mine as I think you have to be ok with NEVER getting new from AD again.

After all TS has said on the Nautilus I can't believe he will betray himself and let this will happen; I think one of the reasons the market has shot up is because we know he "hates" the Nautilus and wants to limit supply and it's influence over the brand.

[soundserious]

Originally Posted by AK797

After all TS has said on the Nautilus I can't believe he will betray himself and let this will happen; I think one of the reasons the market has shot up is because we know he "hates" the Nautilus and wants to limit supply and it's influence over the brand.

Ironically this is exactly what is happening. They need to eliminate this entry level watch and get back to their roots.

[ap1]

Originally Posted by AK797

I tested your 64R bezel and mine at the ADs today and turns out the Nautilus bezel is tougher so you're golden.

Was wondering the same thing - I’d think a 64bez is just as vulnerable as the 11r. Man scratches are painful on that but somehow I’m pretty clean.

[JorgeCCW]

Originally Posted by AK797

I tested your 64R bezel and mine at the ADs today and turns out the Nautilus bezel is tougher so you're golden.

How is that possible ? Isn’t it the same gold ? both are soft and prone to scratches


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[kingofthehill]

Originally Posted by JorgeCCW

How is that possible ? Isn’t it the same gold ? both are soft and prone to scratches


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How has your 5712R held up JorgeCCW? Pictures welcomed! :)

[JorgeCCW]

Originally Posted by kingofthehill

How has your 5712R held up JorgeCCW? Pictures welcomed! :)

Is long gone brah

[kingofthehill]

Originally Posted by JorgeCCW

Is long gone brah

Any specific reason? What did you replace it with?

[JorgeCCW]

Originally Posted by kingofthehill

Any specific reason? What did you replace it with?

This




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[kingofthehill]

Originally Posted by JorgeCCW

This




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Congratulations! :)

[tng11]

Originally Posted by ap1

What happens if new model (no seconds / small seconds etc) is released Basel 18. Maybe that’s why refunding deposits / Saying no supply. Is that the new tulip and our trusty 11s
Good back to 30ish. Maybe white stays as is and blue gets makeover. Who knows what’s going on anymore but this craze may continue if truly pinched supply. Anecdotally I’ve had dealers mention
Checking history etc on 5711/12 so maybe stern will approve etc like Tyler’s pilot. This notion of clipping profits and hopping in another list won’t fly. That’s my hesitation on moving mine as I think you have to be ok with NEVER getting new from AD again.

Apparently they're doing exactly this in Hong Kong. Libertas (the local distributor like Rhone or HSWA) will check your name for previous purchases of the same reference and you will be denied if you've previously bought. Trying to use a bogus name is a bit harder too - you must provide the AD (who forwards it to the distributor) with a business card from a reputable business.

[ap1]

Originally Posted by tng11

Apparently they're doing exactly this in Hong Kong. Libertas (the local distributor like Rhone or HSWA) will check your name for previous purchases of the same reference and you will be denied if you've previously bought. Trying to use a bogus name is a bit harder too - you must provide the AD (who forwards it to the distributor) with a business card from a reputable business.

Seems like moving that way globally. Look, I completely get people buying solely to sell for profits and trying to block that from happening like re-sellers on this site. That said, I’ve bought a white 11in 2015 or so and flipped it to fund another. You all get the vicious cycle and moving your collection around for some of us at least. So now, I see all the white incomings on here and say, gee, maybe that was a mistake, I’d like that one again. So stern is gonna deny? Guess so in this new world. Kinda takes some fun out of it all.

[masyv6]

Originally Posted by tonupbklyn

hell, OP listed it for sale (above 40k) and got pending...all within the same day!
out of control...

The market is wild these days...

[multimedia]

Originally Posted by tng11

...with a business card from a reputable business.

So if you work for Rado, that means you’re out of luck?

Joke a side, yes this is exactly how they do it. I put my name on the list a couple of weeks back. Didn’t have my cards on me first time I went in, so they suggested I should come back another time to hand one over. Personally I like this way of doing things.

Cheers,
Joe