Nato Disaster!

[Tools]

Originally Posted by HiloBeMagical

I can't agree with the many responses to this thread which have indicated that the "stresses" on the spring bars- and "spring bar failure" due to the use of a NATO strap is the problem here.
. . .

I would think that any force sufficient to snap both spring bars simultaneously from "pressure" is sufficient to take your hand off at the wrist first.

...

It's not the spring bar breaking. You can wiggle a NATO or most straps back and forth with just a little pressure and you will collapse that tiny couple of millimeters of the end and they will come right off.

Many old-time watchmakers never used spring-bar tools on strap watches.. They just pull on the strap, give it a couple of wiggles, and off it comes..

Watches originally equipped with NATO straps had welded in spring-bars because this was a known possibility..

[JSI]

Originally Posted by Tools

The new SubC spring bars are larger at the pivot end than previous bars and unique to it (possibly the SD has them too)

Not sure if shoulderless bars come in the new pivot size..

Any idea on a solution to this?
I love the look of my SubC on nato and perlon strap, but have not had it on one since I started reading all these threads on here.

I did try it out and was able to wiggle the nato strap enough to get one of the springbars to open. Sure not both, but it is not a great feeling know one could open that easily.

[petereoin]

I have had a springbar fail on a Nato, but never two at the same time.
Thankfully the springbar did fail while on a Nato as the second kept my watch attached to the strap.

If it was on a normal bracelet, it would have hit the floor, or worst, been lost

[Elphinston]

Thanks for all your feed back. Sorry for not replying sooner.

Well, I can confirm that both original rolex spring bars failed while using a 20 mm Nato strap. The Subc fell off the strap last week as I was packing away my Paraglider after a short flight (new hobby!), luckily it hit my foot otherwise I wouldn't of noticed and it would have been lost in the long grass.
I love the look but now I just don't trust the Nato anymore. I replaced the S/Bs and refitted the strap, I managed to twist the strap to replicate the watch being caught on something and pop there it went. It was too easy. Im going back to the bracelet I'm afraid, even though I love the Nato Strap.
Im sure if your wear the watch as a dress watch or in a office it would be fine. However using it with a Nato everyday in my kind of work ( Film Electrician ) isn't going to be wise.
I didn't mean for my post to be a anti Nato, I love the Nato, it looks great.

Cheers E

[Tools]

Nothing wrong with a NATO strap.. It's a look with some historical background..

You just need to know it's limitations and wear it for the look, not because of any perceived security benefits..

[pyac76]

I have a question regarding NATO straps. Since the newer watches do not have lug holes and there are "shoulders" on the spring bars to grab, would a watch with lug holes have less chance of coming off a NATO?

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by pyac76

I have a question regarding NATO straps. Since the newer watches do not have lug holes and there are "shoulders" on the spring bars to grab, would a watch with lug holes have less chance of coming off a NATO?

If it had smooth spring bars, yes.

[pyac76]

Thanks!

[Porsche]

Yes, you can easily have both spring bars fail. My 8 year old lost a vintage Seiko in the surf last summer. It was on a Nato. I suspect one spring bar broke, he didn't notice and the watch was swinging on the remaining spring bar until it too gave way.

[waterman1]

I'm blown away. I was on here this weekend discussing how I have surfed for a decade with mine on a nato and how I've never had an issue. I guess I have been extremely lucky. I doubt I will rely on the nato again for extra security in the ocean.

[Passionata]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

Yeah, probably so. It was really jammed in there from the pressure I guess...

But I don't expect you will have that problem as you are careful with what springbar you use...

you mean the end of the bar stucked in the lug holes?

[Alex6340]

Originally Posted by HiloBeMagical

I can't agree with the many responses to this thread which have indicated that the "stresses" on the spring bars- and "spring bar failure" due to the use of a NATO strap is the problem here.



I just don't see how. If true, the world's ocean beds ought to be covered in Panerai watches by now. Those hub-cap sized Pams put a lot more stress on a springbar than any Rolex ever does.



I would think that any force sufficient to snap both spring bars simultaneously from "pressure" is sufficient to take your hand off at the wrist first.



What's more likely is:



1) that a "Heavy Duty" NATO was installed on a watch with only room for a "normal thickness" NATO between the springbars and the watch case, which caused:



2) the springbars to not really be locked in to the lug holes when the strap was installed.



In either case, operator error. (This isn't a slight to the OP, I've made these mistakes myself. It's not hard to do if you're not familiar with what to look for.)



Hilo

A lot of Panerai have screwed bars. ;)


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[cjohns]

Been there done that.Anyone who tells you a stock Sub SB will not pop out on a nato is nuts.Had a 114060 tossed on a nato and got it to pop off in seconds.I just bought these off Ebay and when you want to put the bracelet back on use a small side cutters and cut them in the middle and just pull them out ,, EASY and safe. https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-SET-12-FA...4AAOSw4CFYps28

[Raza_actual]

Sounds like an issue I’ve seen with Tudors as well. Many Tudors ship with a NATO style strap as well as leather or a bracelet. The springbars that are included come in two lengths—shorther, for the bracelet, longer for the NATO. My friend was unaware of this and put his Black Bay on a perlon. After multiple failures, he sent me this:



I assume Rolex has a similar philosophy, but since they don’t supply a NATO, they don’t give a longer set of bars. Slip through straps stress the springbars more than bracelets and even more than leather. The side to side movement can also cause failures, with the shoulders of the bars getting caught and pulled out of the lug hole.

I don’t think you need to go shoulderless. They’re a pain without lug holes and aren’t really designed to be used on watches that don’t have drilled lugs. I think you could probably just get springbars that are 21mm instead of 20mm and use them when you’re using the NATO (but not the bracelet).

[Clay]

You need a Mil Sub...Spring Bars are "fixed" and can't be removed...
Although it will cost a bit more...

[Raza_actual]

Originally Posted by Alex6340

A lot of Panerai have screwed bars. ;)


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I’ve had more problems with screwbars than I ever have had with springbars—and far few watches with screwbars, too. I’ve had them wiggle themselves loose, stripped threads, frozen threads, any problem you can think of with a screwbar, I’ve had it. Biggest issue I’ve ever had with springbars was removing a shoulderless set from a watch without drilled lugs (I used a pocket knife to bend the bar until it came out).

[TurboDiesel]

This is why i stick with the bracelet

[DoctorA]

Originally Posted by Dan Pierce

The whole idea behind the nato strap is if one spring bar fails the other keeps the watch attached to the strap, which stays attached to the wrist. You had both spring bars fail at once? Never heard of that.
dP

If I ever were to replace a strap I make sure to have the original spring bars!

[TonyD]

I know it isn't NATO and are quote $$ but the straps from Rubber B and Everest have hard molded inserts that do a great job keeping the stress off the spring bars. IMO these are very close to the bracelet as far as safety.

[toxicavenger]

Sorry natos apply pressure in the middle of the spring bars just like a bracelet/leather/rubber strap does. There is no difference. The only difference is usually people use the incorrect spring bars or old fatigued spring bars.

Natos do not fatigue a spring bar abnormally. More forum lore than facts. Natos do not grab spring bars either, it isn't possible unless you strap is so frayed it actually wrap around the spring bars a few times.

[srf52]

Originally Posted by Jason71

I would love to know how this would happen. IMHO, it is impossible if you cut the bar in the middle.

...difficult to explain, but what can happen is as the cut is being made, the bar has to expand a bit to accommodate the width of the blade edge. At the same time, the bar can shift up or down slightly which can subsequently cause the bar end to shear off the tube and jam inside the lug hole. As always, YMMV.

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by srf52

...difficult to explain, but what can happen is as the cut is being made, the bar has to expand a bit to accommodate the width of the blade edge. At the same time, the bar can shift up or down slightly which can subsequently cause the bar end to shear off the tube and jam inside the lug hole. As always, YMMV.

thats what happened

[CRM114]

NATOs lack endlinks and with no metal endlink between the lugs to limit the amount of sideways, twisting motion of the watch head as a bracelet does, the NATO fabric will give and compress on one end of the springbar and begin to bind and pull on the other. The torquing moment means stress at one end and compression the other on the springbar, well past and unlike the transfer if a metal endlink between the lugs were there. Endlinks begin to absorb/transfer the torque directly into the metal bracelet itself before the point of springbar failure. There's no transfer and absorption of torque energy from watch head into a fabric NATO strap with no endlinks except through the springbars, and they have to bear the entire load unevenly across it's length. The more energy, the more stress. The max torque stress a springbar sitting inside a metal endlink has to endure is limited so it bears the load in the direction and way it was designed to bear it. With a fabric NATO, all that designed load-limiting goes out the window.

[Valhala]

Mine stays on bracelet... no need to worry about it falling off

[Captain Scrumpy]

Had one partial and one full bar failure on natos. No longer trust for anything but cheap watches.


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[Seibei]

Please good people, I beg you, if you use NATO on watches that are not designed for NATO, then only, and I mean only wear a watch that is expendable. NATO straps are for watches with fixed bars. Yes, folks, not the spring loaded bars that NATO straps pull loose.

http://thelearnedgentleman.com/every...ilitary-watch/

If there is anything I have an aversion to in the world of watches, then it is people using NATO straps in a risky and inappropriate way, meaning that you risk losing or damaging your watch and the NATO rather detracts from the way the watch looks rather than enhances it.

[toxicavenger]

Originally Posted by CRM114

NATOs lack endlinks and with no metal endlink between the lugs to limit the amount of sideways, twisting motion of the watch head as a bracelet does, the NATO fabric will give and compress on one end of the springbar and begin to bind and pull on the other. The torquing moment means stress at one end and compression the other on the springbar, well past and unlike the transfer if a metal endlink between the lugs were there. Endlinks begin to absorb/transfer the torque directly into the metal bracelet itself before the point of springbar failure. There's no transfer and absorption of torque energy from watch head into a fabric NATO strap with no endlinks except through the springbars, and they have to bear the entire load unevenly across it's length. The more energy, the more stress. The max torque stress a springbar sitting inside a metal endlink has to endure is limited so it bears the load in the direction and way it was designed to bear it. With a fabric NATO, all that designed load-limiting goes out the window.

Your natos must be made of steel to cause all of the torque you are talking about. Or you are wearing them so tight you cut off circulation.