1970 Air King COA issues

[Son Volt]

Hello all, this is my first post (and first Rolex).

I have a Rolex Air King (blue dial) purchased by my Dad around 1972 or '73 (serial #3.01m) in Switzerland, and worn by him daily for 40+ years until his death in 2013. I don't believe he ever had it serviced, but could be wrong. Not being a watch guy, I recently decided to have the watch refurbished so I could carry on wearing it. It had stopped working a few years ago, and my Dad had laid it aside. Its crystal, after 4 decades showed a fair amount of wear and tear and the stem wound freely (as in loose).

I took the watch to an official Rolex retail store where I live and asked them for an estimate on a restoration/refurbishment. The guy ballparked me a $700 figure but told me they would e-mail me with a true estimate later. Much to my surprise, after a few weeks I received a text that the watch was ready for pickup!

Well, long story short, the jewelry store screwed up and failed to communicate to whomever they sent it to for repair that I wanted an estimate - and the work was performed - a COA, replaced the crystal, performed pressure test and polished the case. Because I did not actually ever authorize the work (only requested a quote) the store manager cut the $700 bill in half, and I paid $350, which I thought was fair - the miscommunication seemed an honest mistake.

Anyway, now to my concerns. First, I notice the second hand (though it keeps accurate time; i.e. one revolution in 60 seconds) skips, lurches and/or stops intermittently in some places. Timekeeping doesn't appear to be impacted, it's just not a continuous smooth movement. From what I've read, this is likely a lack of proper tension on the second hand spring, which doesn't affect timekeeping, but does affect the smooth motion of the second hand.

Additionally, I've noticed a few (9) actual minute markers on the dial are now missing. I can't swear they hadn't fallen off during my Dad's use and were cleaned out during the COA, but they're definitely not there now. And finally, there is a noticeable discoloration around the central shaft on the watch dial. Again, research has lead me to believe this is oils damage over the years (the watch is 45+ years old). The rest of the dial face is beautiful.

My question is - does any of this sound like really poor work on the part of the repair person? Would a COA normally make sure the second hand is tensioned perfectly? Would it address the missing minute markers (can those even be replaced; they're infinitesimally small!) And the "oil stain" - should that be repaired, or can it?

Thanks for any advice you seasoned watch folks can give - I'm just not knowledgeable enough to know if I got suckered, even at half the original price. While this is a respected local jewelry store in my home state, with several locations throughout the state, I have no idea who they sent the watch to for repair, but the work is warranted for two years. Is the second hand issue worth returning it?

Thanks,
DH

[Son Volt]

Have tried to post images of the watch, but as my post count here is only one, am not allowed. If someone wouldn't mind posting them for me, please message me. Thanks.

DH

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by Son Volt

Have tried to post images of the watch, but as my post count here is only one, am not allowed. If someone wouldn't mind posting them for me, please message me. Thanks.

DH

Largely, because I'm a Son Volt fan, send me the pics and I'll post em for you! (just not TOO many!)

[Kingface66]

Posting there for the O.P.

[Son Volt]

Thanks very much, KingFace66 - appreciate the pic posting. As you can see, my Dad wore out the original Rolex bracelet and never got it repaired (and I can't find it). I've attached cheap-o leather bands. 19mm doesn't leave a plethora of options.

Second pic is in order to show discoloration around central shaft. You have to get it at the right angle with the light to see it.

DH

[GLADIATOR]

Sadly no photos, you can PM to me and I will load if you want

[GLADIATOR]

Posted for OP

[Son Volt]

Thanks, Gladiator! - DH

[GLADIATOR]

I got no idea who actually serviced it, but I doubt it was Rolex or any of their Authorised Repair Centres!

[Gaijin]

Not knowing really anything about watch repairs I can't address any of your concerns. I would like to say that is a beautiful Air King.

[GLADIATOR]

Well, I am pretty sure Rolex would now change the dial for a service dial, as tritium is no longer used and those lumed dots falling off, will end up in the movement'

A

[Son Volt]

Honestly, I would not want the dial changed. This was the dial my Dad looked at every day for about 45 years, so it wouldn't be the same to me with a new, albeit prettier, dial.

Incidentally, this watch dates to 1970/71, and I was born in 1971, so it has meaning to me for that reason, as well. I show some signs of usage after 46 years too!

DH

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by Son Volt

Honestly, I would not want the dial changed. This was the dial my Dad looked at every day for about 45 years, so it wouldn't be the same to me with a new, albeit prettier, dial.

Incidentally, this watch dates to 1970/71, and I was born in 1971, so it has meaning to me for that reason, as well. I show some signs of usage after 46 years too!

DH

Well, I am only stating what I believe Rolex would do.
They can not work with a tritium dial, and markers falling off, they would treat as distressed and needing changes.

And they do not return the old dial.

I understand your sentiment entirely, just passing my thoughts
a

[joli160]

You mentioned that the work was done by an official AD.
If they use a certified Rolex watchmaker they should have supplied you with a card, which is a new guarantee and an itemised invoice of the work being done.
Belief the validity of the warranty on the repairs is two years.
The matter of the second hand not running smooth is thus something which they should rectify.

Indeed a sign of poor workmanship. If they did not use a certified Rolex watchmaker than big shame on them and you will not know if your watch is fixed with original parts or some generic ones.

Surely the repair was not done at an official Rolex Service Centre, they would have contacted you for sure and probably insisted on a dial change.
They also provide you with a card, different than the one from an AD.

Good that you keep the original dial, I would do the same.
If the missing lume plots bother you than you can have these restored and the centre perhaps cleaned up, without spray painting the whole dial.

If you ever do find the bracelet, ship it to Michael Young in Hong Kong. He restores old Rolex bracelets and probably can fix your dial as well. But make sure that it will not be refinished completely.

Nice watch, wear it proudly

[Son Volt]

Thanks, all. They definitely didn't send it to a RSC, it went to someone in Memphis, TN. The jewelry store warranties the work for 2 years, so I'm inclined to take it back, show them the erratic second hand and tell them to please have this corrected. However, this means that I'm committing it back into the hands of the same person who did shoddy work to begin with - so I'm not enthused about that.

As for non-Rolex parts, I suspect they did use those. The crystal for instance is much more square shouldered than Dad's was, which was quite rounded. Who knows how many more non-Rolex parts are in there now?

I probably should have sent this to a RSC myself, but I assumed when you take something to a high volume Rolex dealer (with a crown displayed prominently on their building) you're getting Rolex service. In this case, I don't think I did.

Ugh ... I always seem to get in over my head when I take on projects without adequate preparation.

DH

[GLADIATOR]

Ask here first
I would (personally) not take it back to that shop,
Just live with it, as Rolex wont touch it now withOUT replacing all non Rolex parts

[Son Volt]

While I'm loathe to return it to the same person who failed to adjust it correctly the first time, this is also the only place that will do the adjustment for what I've ALREADY paid. So the pragmatic side of me says I should utilize the warranty they provide and make them do the job right, rather than be annoyed every single time I watch the second hand lurch, freeze, skip and jump. The "damage" of non-Rolex parts being installed is probably already done, so now I just want the thing at least running correctly, like a Rolex. From what I understand the tensioning of the second hand spring is an easy enough procedure - assuming the watchmaker takes the time to do it!

DH

[Son Volt]

Duplicate post deleted.

[phillip ridley]

Hey, as far as the sweep hand "hesitating" or "lagging" here and there, the issue is that the sweep pinion tension spring was not properly installed, or adjusted. This is a very important area to pay attention to due to the age of the watch and i believe it was simply overlooked. I run into this issue at least 4 out of 10 1500 caibler movements.

As far as the lume dots, do you have a before picture? If you believe they were there before sending in, then them missing would primarly fall on watchmaker. If ones not careful, and believe me every watchmaker has been there, then those were knocked off by removing hands or mishandling of dial while taking off or installing on.

[Son Volt]

Hi Phillip, no, unfortunately, I don't have a "before" photo of the watch to prove the lume minute dots were there before. Is there any way for a non-Rolex Service Center repair person to replace these tiny markers, or is that simply impossible?

Also - I don't recall seeing the discoloration around the center shaft until it came back from repair. Is it possible that this could have appeared due to over-lubrication or something, or would that be something that could only appear over many years? It could be that I'm only seeing it now because of the clarity of the new crystal.

Thanks,
DH

[RC2]

Maybe you have some old photos to look at for the dial questions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Son Volt]

Nice thought, RC2, but my Dad wore this watch from the time I was a baby and, as such, I never paid it any real attention - it was just like a part of his body! Ironically, the only thing I do remember about the watch was how smooth the second hand moved. That said "quality" to me. Funny that the second hand is now what I notice, for the wrong reason!

DH

[phillip ridley]

Originally Posted by Son Volt

Hi Phillip, no, unfortunately, I don't have a "before" photo of the watch to prove the lume minute dots were there before. Is there any way for a non-Rolex Service Center repair person to replace these tiny markers, or is that simply impossible?

Also - I don't recall seeing the discoloration around the center shaft until it came back from repair. Is it possible that this could have appeared due to over-lubrication or something, or would that be something that could only appear over many years? It could be that I'm only seeing it now because of the clarity of the new crystal.

Thanks,
DH

Hi, as far as the lume dots being replaced, i would be able to color match the Tritium and add the dots which would not be Tritium. Just a point to add, if you want to keep the originality of the watch, then adding dots may take that away.

Regatding the dial, it would be hard to believe that so muvh oil was applied that it crept up on the dial. If you would, send me a close up photo of the area. But im betting its the latter and since the old crystal blocked certain views, that it was simply overlooked.

[Son Volt]

Just wanted to update to say that I sent the watch to Phillip at Watchmakers International and couldn't be more pleased! Phillip quickly assessed the situation, properly tensioned the spring so the second hand runs smooth as glass and was able to successfully remove the oil/grease stain from the dial. The watch looks beautiful now and runs perfectly.

All this, plus the work was done with warp speed. I couldn't be happier, and just so you know, the original jewelry store who did such sloppy work has agreed to reimburse me for Phillip's very reasonable fee for this work.

So glad I posted and and can highly recommend Phillip and Watchmakers International! Thanks to all who offered their thoughts here.

DH

[John Ireland]

All your sentimental attachment put aside, stop whatever you are doing and stop thinking about the $350 you threw out the window for sloppy work on the watch. Take several big breaths and remember your own words...to the effect...you don't know what you are doing, you don't have any documents or remember about how the watch looked when you gave it to be repaired, and you have know idea what to do next. So start by doing nothing except reading and rereading what everyone here has told you. Now, stop wearing the watch because it sounds as if you have very little idea how it works and you may make things worse. Spend a week finding and talking to first class independent Rolex repair people no matter what city they are in, and get their references and check them, and then decide who you want to send the watch to. (Forget anyone in your city at this time.) Make a list of everything you do NOT want them to do. Expect to spend about $1,000 for a full service, maybe a little more if parts are needed. Expect the watch to be out of your hands for a couple of months. Do not be penny wise and pound foolish. Any internal parts the watch needs replaced, you should have replaced. This can include main spring and gears and crown and case tube and crystal and gaskets. You do NOT want the original crystal. You should have the watch pressure tested for water tightness and made as close to original specs as possible. As for external cosmetics, those are your choices as long as they do not impact on the integrity of the moment. Flaking luminous material on the dial and hands should be gently removed so that it doesn't powder off and get inside the watch.

Your passion for your father's watch is commendable...now do it justice by taking the old carpenter's rule...measure twice and cut once.

[YuriyV]

Please, please, please post pictures!

[Son Volt]

Originally Posted by John Ireland

All your sentimental attachment put aside, stop whatever you are doing and stop thinking about the $350 you threw out the window for sloppy work on the watch. Take several big breaths and remember your own words...to the effect...you don't know what you are doing, you don't have any documents or remember about how the watch looked when you gave it to be repaired, and you have know idea what to do next. So start by doing nothing except reading and rereading what everyone here has told you. Now, stop wearing the watch because it sounds as if you have very little idea how it works and you may make things worse. Spend a week finding and talking to first class independent Rolex repair people no matter what city they are in, and get their references and check them, and then decide who you want to send the watch to. (Forget anyone in your city at this time.) Make a list of everything you do NOT want them to do. Expect to spend about $1,000 for a full service, maybe a little more if parts are needed. Expect the watch to be out of your hands for a couple of months. Do not be penny wise and pound foolish. Any internal parts the watch needs replaced, you should have replaced. This can include main spring and gears and crown and case tube and crystal and gaskets. You do NOT want the original crystal. You should have the watch pressure tested for water tightness and made as close to original specs as possible. As for external cosmetics, those are your choices as long as they do not impact on the integrity of the moment. Flaking luminous material on the dial and hands should be gently removed so that it doesn't powder off and get inside the watch.

Your passion for your father's watch is commendable...now do it justice by taking the old carpenter's rule...measure twice and cut once.

Um ... maybe you need to re-read my post directly above yours. I just received the watch back from Watchmakers International, and it's good to go and running perfectly. ... And I don't need to be a "Rolex Expert" to wear and appreciate the watch. I do know how to tell time, thanks.

[rolexjim]

Hey Son Volt, can you please post pictures of the watch since it was returned? If you still cannot post, you can send them to me and I'll post them for you.

Very nice watch and a nice story too.

[bugben]

I'm interested to see the end result too

[Son Volt]

Sorry guys, I'm in Saudi Arabia at the moment and the watch is in the US.

Bear in mind though, Watchmakers Int'l properly tensioned the second hand spring - it didn't change the look of the watch. While they did remove the grease stain visible in one of the pictures above, if you simply look at the other (first) picture , you don't see the grease stain anyway.

Besides the stain removal, the watch doesn't look different than the pics above.

DH