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Old 18 July 2020, 04:27 AM   #1
Nick9
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Stuck Spring Bars -- Oh So Stuck!

Here's a problem I've never had before...

Just bought a Rolex ref 1500 (circa 1983). The watch is in great condition, but as dirty as I've ever seen. All sorts of strange greasy crud in the bracelet links, blackish goo where the bezel meets the case. Just awful, and not your average dirt.

(By the way, no foul to the seller. He's a buddy, and we were both well aware of the crud on it.)

So, I've been trying to get the bracelet off. It's a case with holes, so you would think it would be easy enough to pop it off with my Bergeon poking tool. But no it's not.

The best I can do, so far, and with LOTS of pressure, is get just *one* of the spring bar ends to properly compress. The other three are totally immobile. I used some penetrating oil, too, but no luck.

Now I'm wondering if there is a mysterious watchmaker trick to dealing with spring bars that appear to be utterly seized. Something that I can do at home.

Advice and wisdom much appreciated; thanks in advance.
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Old 18 July 2020, 02:07 PM   #2
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Update. Tried vinegar, and then acetone. The ends of the bars are sure nice and shiny now.

As much pressure as I could muster. Still stuck. I'm reluctant to try heating it without some expert advice on that route. Is there any?

The rest of the watch is now nice and clean looking.

Once again, thanks in advance for your thoughts.
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Old 18 July 2020, 03:06 PM   #3
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You could try light tapping on a pair of opposing pin punches. Make sure the pin punches are the right diameter to be a fairly tight fit in the lug holes and position one punch in a vice so that the pin is upwards and vertical. Position the punch high enough in the vice so that the case doesn't touch the vice jaws when the pin is in the lug hole. Get somebody else to hold the case steady and put the second punch pin down in the opposing lug hole. Tap as hard as you dare on the top punch with a light hammer and see if one or both ends of the spring pin move out of the lug holes.

If this doesn't work you'll have to drill them out. Getting the bracelet off the case is the first challenge, but then you might have a similar problem getting the pins out of the end pieces. They can be drilled out but this is difficult as the alignment of the drill is crucial and the drill is quite long and fragile. If you need to do that you might decide to have a manufacturing jeweler or a machine shop do it for you and they can probably get everything apart without damaging the end pieces.
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Old 18 July 2020, 04:52 PM   #4
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Maybe two small correctly sized pins , inserted in the case holes then gently compress them together in a small vice or clamp
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Old 18 July 2020, 04:57 PM   #5
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FWIW

I was once told I’m quiet . medieval or heavy handed so you may choose to ignore the above ,

But what have you to lose ?

The issue is breaking the pins is ok ? Cheap to replace but what if you end up with some broken pieces of metal in the lugs as suggested drill them out after getting the correct size drill

Too small would be fine because you could still go bigger ....... Too big then you will need lazer welding

It can’t be that hard ,let us know how you get on
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Old 18 July 2020, 08:20 PM   #6
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It’s hammer time

I’ve also used a piercing saw before.

And in extremely rare circumstances you need to choose either to leave it fitted or to sacrifice an element (such as the end links or a leather strap if applicable) for the greater good.
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Old 18 July 2020, 08:46 PM   #7
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Sometimes you have to 'sacrifice' the spring bar. Cut and be done with it, as am sure you're not going to reuse them anyway due to their condition.
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Old 19 July 2020, 01:32 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by enjoythemusic View Post
Sometimes you have to 'sacrifice' the spring bar. Cut and be done with it, as am sure you're not going to reuse them anyway due to their condition.
This. ^ Cut them in half and pull out with pliers. If they are this bad, they are toast anyway.
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Old 19 July 2020, 01:38 AM   #9
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Thanks for all this.

Unfortunately, there's no room for me to get in to cut the spring bar. And of course I want to avoid sacrificing the end links. I'd cut the spring bar in a heartbeat if I could get at it; I have plenty.

So, I guess it's hammer or saw or drill time. But also these are things that I would ask my watchmaker to handle. LOL I know my limits.

Meanwhile, everything else is going well. Timed the watch overnight and it's keeping very good time. I reckon I'll get my watchmaker to have a peek inside and I am counting on new gaskets.

It is the strangest goo. Some kind of industrial substance, no doubt mixed with ordinary grime and sweat. Think "black chewing gum"; very weird stuff.

It will be a while, but I will update this thread in due course.

Once again, many thanks!
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Old 19 July 2020, 04:31 AM   #10
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penetrating solvent

I read an article linked from an auto forum comparing penetrating solvents used on rusted, seized fasteners. From my own experience penetrating solvents work well although they may require patience during an extended soak in period. The best results were achieved with a 50/50 mixture of acetone and transmission fluid but there are also products available in auto and hardware stores. A tiny amount fed into the springbar hole may do the trick.
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Old 19 July 2020, 06:40 AM   #11
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Put it in an ultrasonic cleaner, only the springbar area, not the entire watch!. Leave it there for an hour or so and try again. Hammer, saw, drill etc will very likely scratch a lug or endpiece of the bracelet
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Old 19 July 2020, 08:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
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Maybe two small correctly sized pins , inserted in the case holes then gently compress them together in a small vice or clamp
This is what I had to do when some idiot had use an epoxy glue which I couldn’t dissolve
I turned down 1/2” steel bar stock so a had a large area for the vice jaws to hold
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Old 19 July 2020, 10:41 PM   #13
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Lug holes are your friend - that and a very steady jig and drill press to ensure perfectly straight drilling.


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Old 20 July 2020, 01:57 AM   #14
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I wouldn't leave it like this.

Seized or corroded parts stuck together will only get worse.

Stainless Steel is only stainless because it forms an oxide on the surface that inhibits corrosion from starting. Once that film breaks down, and corrosion gets a foothold, it is like a cancer that will continue at that spot. The corrosion has to be removed, and the area cleaned for the stainless steel to be able to recover and "heal" back to normal.
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Old 20 July 2020, 03:18 AM   #15
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Quote:
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I wouldn't leave it like this.

Seized or corroded parts stuck together will only get worse.

Stainless Steel is only stainless because it forms an oxide on the surface that inhibits corrosion from starting. Once that film breaks down, and corrosion gets a foothold, it is like a cancer that will continue at that spot. The corrosion has to be removed, and the area cleaned for the stainless steel to be able to recover and "heal" back to normal.
Thanks. And just to confirm, there is NO possibility that this problem won't be fixed. I do like lots of things specifically about vintage watches--patina, honest wear, case swirlies, a little stretch in the bracelet, etc. Seized spring bars are definitely NOT on the list.

Unfortunately, the "tap, drill, pry" solutions are way beyond my skills. I will have to rely on my proven talent in extracting a credit card from my wallet and paying for professional help.

The advice here has been great and I sure appreciate the help. Thanks.
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Old 20 July 2020, 04:06 AM   #16
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Old 20 July 2020, 07:42 AM   #17
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Quote:
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This is what I had to do when some idiot had use an epoxy glue which I couldn’t dissolve
I turned down 1/2” steel bar stock so a had a large area for the vice jaws to hold

Epoxy is weak against heat. That is how i remove broken/old stock epoxied crystals from other (non rolex) watches.

30-45 secs under a heatgun and the epoxy is softened and can be scraped of easily.


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Old 21 July 2020, 12:18 AM   #18
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I didn’t want to strip and heat the case and I wasn’t sure the glue was epoxy based
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Old 22 July 2020, 11:15 AM   #19
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Guys, the saga continues. Check this out.

I was able to pry off one side of the bracelet. As you can see below, a little bending of the end piece--I can sort that out, so not a big deal. Sacrificed the pins on the spring bar, also no biggie.

But look at the spring bar! Basically, it's much wider at both ends, and it looks as if the metal piece that it goes through has been deliberately (inadvertently?) crimped where the thinner part of the spring bar fits in the middle.

There is no way that any of the solutions suggested so far would have worked, so I guess this is a problem to watch out for.

I have never seen a spring bar like this before.

FWIW, it's a 6 million serial number, so 1979/80 or thereabouts.

Here's a picture:
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Old 23 July 2020, 10:52 PM   #20
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What on earth could have caused this!?
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Old 24 July 2020, 12:54 AM   #21
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Thx for posting pic. Yeah, something is amiss :(
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Old 24 July 2020, 01:41 AM   #22
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In my travels in WatchLand, I have seen one other McGyvered Air King where the bracelet end was permanently crimped around a steel bar between the lugs. In that case, the previous owner asked for that work to be done so that the watch would NEVER fall off.

It was ugly, and weird. But at the end of the day it was fixable, and I think my watchmaker will also be able to make this right.
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Old 25 July 2020, 07:22 AM   #23
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Kroil (by Kano Labs) and let it soak for a few days. Not the entire bracelet, just squirt those end links and spring bars. It's the best penetrating oil out there.
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Old 25 July 2020, 04:26 PM   #24
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Me , I would buy a pair off end links and new pins ensure the case holes are clean and correct and refit the bracelet
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Old 6 August 2020, 06:46 AM   #25
Nick9
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Update. My watchmaker thinks that there actually is a spring in there, just totally seized. He has seen that style springbar, apparently.

He will be able to get them out and once that's done I will ask him how he managed it.

During my visit, we had a quick go at opening the back by hand, using his Rolex opener (better than mine). No success. He's going to use the bigger machine.

Obviously this watch has been neglected, so I'm expecting it will need a full service.

I do like "new firsts" in the world of vintage watch collecting, so I'll chalk this one up to the learning curve. I gave myself financial room for a service when I bought this one, so I'm okay there, too.

I guess we may never know the exact composition of the goo. My guess is that it was worn in some sort of industrial setting. For sure it's not common dirt. Actually, it's a bit of a surprise that the rest of the watch is in good shape, considering. No big dings or scratches, wears well.

Appreciate all the help here. Thanks to all.
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