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Old 15 February 2020, 06:55 PM   #1
sgwatchguy
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Patek purchase history policy

Bear with me on the long read.

I was in Vietnam and late evening I walked into the Patek showroom attached to my hotel. To my surprise I see a 5712g and a 5167 in the showcase which the the lady SA confirms are available for sale ie not reserved for a buyer.

I check prices, made a couple of phone calls home and to a friend who can tell me more about this model and am getting around to rationalizing the decision to purchase the 5712. The SA patiently goes through the process and the forms to be filled up for the tax refund claim at the airport. I have the information I think I need, numbers worked out converting from the local currency to mine and checking MSRP in Singapore, tax return amounts, exchanged messages with my pal in Singapore who’s checked with his AD contacts and been advised the waiting period for this model is very very long and I should pull the trigger if I like the watch. I give all the information to the SA for the tax refund forms she can fill up while I’m speaking to my wife.

My wife has always said yes whenever I’ve spoken about a watch I wanted to buy. This isn’t one of those times and she convinces me to sleep over it - it is a lot of money and while I’ve been actively trying to look for PP models I had never thought of actually being in this situation and needing to make a decision. So I agreed and since we are past closing time now, the SA understands the situation and assures me they will hold the piece for me as long as I walk in at opening time and conclude the purchase.

After thinking through it the prior night - and deciding which of my pieces I would let go to make way for the 5712 - I am there the next morning right at opening time and in the door the moment they unlock it. Only now there’s another guy there who’s the manager for this location and who’s telling me I can’t have the 5712 because he’s holding it for existing customers since Patek has a strict prior purchase history policy. No amount of questioning or disputing that works. He then gets around to me consider buying a basic Calatrava with the 5712 or any of the ladies watches there - but not the 5167. The lady SA apologizes saying she’s new and doesn’t know all PP policies. Long story short, after a frustrating exchange at the store, I leave.

I like the 5712, and while I would prefer to get my first nautilus in a steel bracelet, getting the same watch in WG leather bracelet wasn’t a deal killer for me - no intentions to flip the watch but at the same time an assurance that I probably won’t lose money or not too much if I didn’t like the leather bracelet experience.

I’ve been reading up and while my friend says he’s not surprised on how it turned out, and he’s been told of this before- I can’t see anywhere that this is official Patek policy. Or is it?

Hoping to get some answers here.












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Old 15 February 2020, 07:20 PM   #2
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So sorry what you’ve experienced: unacceptable!
I’ve experienced similar Patek treatment from Geneve AD. I am so against this kind of ”customer service”. Same thing with Rolex: nowadays they don’t give a *$#% about the buying experience. Patek&Rolex are letting their customers feel disappointed and stupid at the same time.
If you have certain model you want: Contact DavidSW. You’ll get the watch you want+world class customer service.


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Old 15 February 2020, 08:03 PM   #3
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In Hong Kong and Macau, you would need to have a residential or a business address submitted to the area distributor (Libertas), prior to purchasing these nautilus / aquanaut ( sports model )...

I am surprised they showcased the watches if the intention was to hold it for one of their spending clients...
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Old 15 February 2020, 08:30 PM   #4
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In Hong Kong and Macau, you would need to have a residential or a business address submitted to the area distributor (Libertas), prior to purchasing these nautilus / aquanaut ( sports model )...

I am surprised they showcased the watches if the intention was to hold it for one of their spending clients...


I was surprised as well, so I immediately checked with the lady SA if those were available for sale or on hold and display. She said for sale.

I told her at the outset I wasn’t local and which wasn’t an issue so we then proceeded to discuss doing the tax refund forms.



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Old 15 February 2020, 08:35 PM   #5
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So sorry what you’ve experienced: unacceptable!
I’ve experienced similar Patek treatment from Geneve AD. I am so against this kind of ”customer service”. Same thing with Rolex: nowadays they don’t give a *$#% about the buying experience. Patek&Rolex are letting their customers feel disappointed and stupid at the same time.
If you have certain model you want: Contact DavidSW. You’ll get the watch you want+world class customer service.


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Thank you but we are in the same boat then I guess :)

I’m not in a hurry so I can wait and try and get on lists. A few of the stores in Singapore I keep dropping into and reminding them of my interest.

To be honest, I’ve not faced this before at any other store or brand. This was a first and I don’t believe this is “official” position but I’m keen to hear on what PP experts can tell me?

If that is genuinely the case then maybe I have to reconsider and look at trusted sellers outside of their AD.



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Old 15 February 2020, 10:42 PM   #6
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These days it pays to pull the trigger when the opportunity arises. You couldn't have known what would happen the following morning. Damn shame.
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Old 15 February 2020, 11:12 PM   #7
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I felt bad after reading what happened the next day, agree , should have pulled the trigger, this scenario ( hot model being available for sale) is rare, worst case that you didnt like it, you can sell and still recoup what you paid for. Hypothetically, I wont be surprise if someone will just buy the 2 watches ( then later figure out what to do with it) since the SA said both are available .
Something similar happened to me, I was looking for rolex Sub( which was unavailable ) but then the SA showed me the Batman . I never considered the Batman ( as I know it is difficult to get but was aware that it sells for a premium) , so I end up buying it ( 1st purchase from AD) and is now a favorite of mine
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Old 15 February 2020, 11:17 PM   #8
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These days it pays to pull the trigger when the opportunity arises. You couldn't have known what would happen the following morning. Damn shame.


Exactly - this. It is super rare to see many or even any references let alone a ‘hot’ one in the case.


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Old 16 February 2020, 01:16 AM   #9
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Patek purchase history policy

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Argonaut View Post
These days it pays to pull the trigger when the opportunity arises. You couldn't have known what would happen the following morning. Damn shame.


Thanks. Yes, in hindsight you’re right. I’m not going to let that happen again!




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Old 16 February 2020, 01:19 AM   #10
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I felt bad after reading what happened the next day, agree , should have pulled the trigger, this scenario ( hot model being available for sale) is rare, worst case that you didnt like it, you can sell and still recoup what you paid for. Hypothetically, I wont be surprise if someone will just buy the 2 watches ( then later figure out what to do with it) since the SA said both are available .
Something similar happened to me, I was looking for rolex Sub( which was unavailable ) but then the SA showed me the Batman . I never considered the Batman ( as I know it is difficult to get but was aware that it sells for a premium) , so I end up buying it ( 1st purchase from AD) and is now a favorite of mine


If this was a situation you were in, yes I would do what you did. Just that this would’ve been my first PP, the total spend being demanded by the guy was very sizable and I would most def lose money selling the second piece I was being forced to buy.


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Old 16 February 2020, 01:28 AM   #11
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Oh sorry, what i meant was buying both the 2 models on display . I dont suggest you buy the calatrava or whatever model as a bundle . I personally never buy watch that I dont like .
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Old 16 February 2020, 01:33 AM   #12
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The bait and switch. They should be ashamed
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Old 16 February 2020, 01:55 AM   #13
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Normally for the VN Patek dealers they ONLY sell to locals.
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Old 16 February 2020, 02:13 AM   #14
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You get very few chances in life to come out on top against the man. When those rare opportunities arise, you don’t sleep on it. You pounce. Sorry my man but you should have pulled the trigger right then and there. We can Monday morning quarterback and all sit around and complain against the AD Patek Rolex or whoever else, and rightly so, to make our selves feel better but that doesn’t change the fact you now don’t have a watch you wanted.

Should have pulled the trigger and literally slept on in with the watch under your pillow.
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Old 16 February 2020, 02:56 AM   #15
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You get very few chances in life to come out on top against the man. When those rare opportunities arise, you don’t sleep on it. You pounce. Sorry my man but you should have pulled the trigger right then and there. We can Monday morning quarterback and all sit around and complain against the AD Patek Rolex or whoever else, and rightly so, to make our selves feel better but that doesn’t change the fact you now don’t have a watch you wanted.

Should have pulled the trigger and literally slept on in with the watch under your pillow.
This is correct, the chance to buy the watch was there. In this market on the desirable models, you have to buy immediately and think it over later.
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Old 16 February 2020, 04:01 AM   #16
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Patek purchase history policy

Poor customer service all around, by both the AD and by Patek.

We live in an interesting time. Good customer service is so important with certain industries, but poor or nonexistent with other industries. Amazon (and internet retailers, in general) have raised the bar significantly. Thousands (millions?) of products delivered to your door in 2 days. Didn’t get it? No problem, here’s another. Need to return it? No problem, here’s a shipping label. Too lazy to box it up? Take it a UPS store.

An anecdotal story, but I was wondering what kind of titanium was used to make the case on my PAM 351. Someone said grade 2 and someone else said grade 5. I called Panerai directly and someone answered immediately. No menu. I asked them about my watch and she told me that it was grade 5. She knew every detail about the watch. Didn’t even have to look it up. If I walk into a Panerai boutique asking for strap tubes, they say no problem, how many do you need. I’m not a big spender and I only have the one PAM. Say what you will about the brand, their special editions, etc, but their CS has been terrific.

I’m getting a little tired of certain brands and the way the treat the general public, even when the public has the cash.


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Old 16 February 2020, 04:20 AM   #17
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Poor customer service all around, by both the AD and by Patek.

We live in an interesting time. Good customer service is so important with certain industries, but poor or nonexistent with other industries. Amazon (and internet retailers, in general) have raised the bar significantly. Thousands (millions?) of products delivered to your door in 2 days. Didn’t get it? No problem, here’s another. Need to return it? No problem, here’s a shipping label. Too lazy to box it up? Take it a UPS store.

An anecdotal story, but I was wondering what kind of titanium was used to make the case on my PAM 351. Someone said grade 2 and someone else said grade 5. I called Panerai directly and someone answered immediately. No menu. I asked them about my watch and she told me that it was grade 5. She knew every detail about the watch. Didn’t even have to look it up. If I walk into a Panerai boutique asking for strap tubes, they say no problem, how many do you need. I’m not a big spender and I only have the one PAM. Say what you will about the brand, their special editions, etc, but their CS has been terrific.

I’m getting a little tired of certain brands and the way the treat the general public, even when the public has the cash.


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Panerai can have the best customer service in the world and I’ll still take a Patek over one any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Lol. And you can talk about customer service and lack thereof but OP should have pulled the trigger ASAP. Don’t blame Patek for wanting to sleep on a purchase of an impossible to get piece.

This incident has nothing to do with Patek. It’s the local AD. I’ve found Patek customer service to be nothing but exceptional anytime any of my watches needed servicing.

Same for my AD- while they may not have the piece I want, they work hard to get it for me. No complaints here what so ever.
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Old 16 February 2020, 04:48 AM   #18
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It would only be wrong if the policy singled out any specific person but as far as I can tell, given demand is still far greater than supply, Patek and Patek ADs broadly apply their policy to all as a general rule of thumb. It's simply the mechanics of the Pareto distribution in effect.

It may seem draconian and illogical when you're standing on the wrong side of the line, but you'll come to appreciate it once you've crossed over the line.
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Old 16 February 2020, 05:23 AM   #19
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Patek purchase history policy

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Panerai can have the best customer service in the world and I’ll still take a Patek over one any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Lol. And you can talk about customer service and lack thereof but OP should have pulled the trigger ASAP. Don’t blame Patek for wanting to sleep on a purchase of an impossible to get piece.



This incident has nothing to do with Patek. It’s the local AD. I’ve found Patek customer service to be nothing but exceptional anytime any of my watches needed servicing.



Same for my AD- while they may not have the piece I want, they work hard to get it for me. No complaints here what so ever.


Don’t get me wrong, I would also take Patek over Panerai. But as a general consumer of things, things which are both expensive and inexpensive, I really believe in first come, first served. This business of selling certain products to certain people irks me. I think good customer service and fair business practices mean something. The sales associate promised to hold it for him. OP is in the right; AD is in the wrong.

I also think that the implication here is that the AD was behaving this way because Patek demands it. If true, then Patek bares some responsibility.

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Old 16 February 2020, 05:35 AM   #20
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Is this not standard? I go to Patek ADs as I travel and often get the no I will not put you on list, this is for preferred customers. I also get this now for Rolex too.


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Old 16 February 2020, 06:07 AM   #21
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I have mixed feelings about this. I am a PP owner and could benefit from being on a preferred list. But I think first come, first served is the best. Because even as an owner there is a chance that I will get trumped by a “better” customer, so I never really know when I am going to get stuff. With first come, I know it may take years but I know exactly where I stand and how many people are in front of me. When I call the AD, they can give me a straight answer with a definitive X people in front of you.

But the other thing about preferred lists is it may push away future customers. For example, you are starting to build enough money for a certain piece, but get turned away. Then you only get only wealthier and can now afford many pieces. Spite could come in play and remember that incident and never return to the brand or AD.
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Old 16 February 2020, 06:55 AM   #22
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Patek and Rolex sports watches over the past few years have gone through some crazy valuations. This in turn has brought in a lot of flippers/speculators who were never really into watches before. The AD has no way to decipher who is a genuine watch enthusiast and who is a flipper. I am not surprised a lot of ADs have set their own policies. However time changes things. Let's see how things change in 5 or 10 years. If and when there is a major global recession, things will be different.
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Old 16 February 2020, 07:03 AM   #23
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I never understood why dealers are "evil" by prioritizing bigger repeat customers.... Which business can be faulted by doing this?

On that note though... The treatment the op received is completely unfair. The watch was already promised and sold and it's poor form to go back on the deal.... This is how you lose customers. Sometimes you take a small loss to gain the upper hand in the larger picture... Poor form from this manager to go back on his word.
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Old 16 February 2020, 07:30 AM   #24
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Patek purchase history policy

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I never understood why dealers are "evil" by prioritizing bigger repeat customers.... Which business can be faulted by doing this?

On that note though... The treatment the op received is completely unfair. The watch was already promised and sold and it's poor form to go back on the deal.... This is how you lose customers. Sometimes you take a small loss to gain the upper hand in the larger picture... Poor form from this manager to go back on his word.


I think it comes down to this: You’re either cool with some buyers getting preferential treatment, or you’re not. Keep in mind, it’s not like one guy could afford it and the other couldn’t. I fall into the not cool with preferential treatment camp. For goods and services, first come, first served is just the better option for all involved.

I also think prioritizing certain customers over others has not helped combat the Grey market. If anything, it’s made it worse. There are so many people out there who can’t walk into an AD and buy want they want. It’s created this sort of frenzied marketplace where people will pay Grey prices just because they can’t get it through the normal channels.

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Old 16 February 2020, 07:59 AM   #25
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For Veblen goods, FCFS is not the better option for everyone involved. Most retailers of Veblen goods understand that their sales closely mirror a Pareto distribution or, 80% of their sales revenue is generated by 20% of their customers (it probably scales even thinner than this).

Consequently, for these retailers, it simply makes more sense to create store programs and policies that facilitate sustainable traffic from that special class of repeat customer. It's not personal, it's business.
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Old 16 February 2020, 08:56 AM   #26
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Don’t get me wrong, I would also take Patek over Panerai. But as a general consumer of things, things which are both expensive and inexpensive, I really believe in first come, first served. This business of selling certain products to certain people irks me. I think good customer service and fair business practices mean something. The sales associate promised to hold it for him. OP is in the right; AD is in the wrong.

I also think that the implication here is that the AD was behaving this way because Patek demands it. If true, then Patek bares some responsibility.

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Two different issues being discussed here.

1- should Patek have better policies? First come first serve, no lists or real lists etc etc- sure. I agree.

2- was OP screwed by the dealer or Patek? No. op screwed himself by not pulling the trigger.
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Old 16 February 2020, 09:35 AM   #27
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I see they are selling for a healthy premium, 60K GBP so they would be bundle pieces, you were lucky to get a straight shot at that.
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Old 16 February 2020, 09:35 AM   #28
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Did the SA not allow you to purchase it since it was after hours ?
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Old 16 February 2020, 10:02 AM   #29
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I think it comes down to this: You’re either cool with some buyers getting preferential treatment, or you’re not. Keep in mind, it’s not like one guy could afford it and the other couldn’t. I fall into the not cool with preferential treatment camp. For goods and services, first come, first served is just the better option for all involved.

I also think prioritizing certain customers over others has not helped combat the Grey market. If anything, it’s made it worse. There are so many people out there who can’t walk into an AD and buy want they want. It’s created this sort of frenzied marketplace where people will pay Grey prices just because they can’t get it through the normal channels.

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It’s a difficult situation, there is a line to be drawn—which right now is very far in favour of one group over the other. Should customers who regularly spend with ADs have some preferential status? Absolutely. I see nothing wrong with rewarding clients on this basis. Should one off customers looking to try and start a relationship, or who simply wish to buy a certain piece be permitted also? Absolutely. The pendulum right now is completely in favour of established clients over walk ins, and many are likely flipping to make money. DavidSW just got in a 5712R and 5712/1A unworn. Either an AD sold them to an intermediary of DavidSW, or an established AD client did.

Until the “fever” around the social cache of SS PP and almost all Rolex watches starts to abate, the cycle will continue.


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Old 16 February 2020, 10:04 AM   #30
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For Veblen goods, FCFS is not the better option for everyone involved. Most retailers of Veblen goods understand that their sales closely mirror a Pareto distribution or, 80% of their sales revenue is generated by 20% of their customers (it probably scales even thinner than this).



Consequently, for these retailers, it simply makes more sense to create store programs and policies that facilitate sustainable traffic from that special class of repeat customer. It's not personal, it's business.

Absolutely. However, right now, that group utterly dominates the retail model. Three years ago, the 20% could still be serviced alongside the walk ins.


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