Seiko VS Citizens

[Rockrolex]

Originally Posted by bankman33

Very nice stock pic, bankman. Too bad it's not your watch.

Be very careful, pal. You are skating on very thin ice here.

[timebroker]

If he falls in ... he's got a waterproof watch.

[miner]

Never had a Tag but I bought this in 1980



Works well so long as I change the battery.

This however is about the same age and works every time I put it on.

[SLRdude]

Originally Posted by BiG JeEzY

I always liked Seiko watches, my dad owned one for a while until the crystal fell off but it really went through a lot of abuse and it handled it well.

Seiko has a really good model called the Spring Drive. I havent seen them in person but I heard they come with a pretty large price tag almost that of other fine watch brands. I am interested in this watch that I have a picture of because I always liked a watch with a power reserve display on it. I think its a fun and neat feature.

I actually own that very model, but with a white face.
It came with the bracelet in the picture, but I put it on a thick black alligator with contrast stitching and butterfly deployant and never actually touched the bracelet.

Let me tell you... that is one impressive watch in person. Built quality is outstanding, and on par with just about anything I have ever touched.

It gets noticed more than any watch I have ever owned, but as soon as I say "It's a Seiko" people just say "Ah. OK." and they walk away.

I have posted those before, but here are some pics of mine.







The top watchmakers in the Seiko empire build about 100 of each model per year, pretty much by hand.

And you are right. They are NOT cheap. Last time I checked, the SNR 001 (my watch) had a MSRP around 3500 USD.
Mine is a bit over one year old, and I can easily sell it for over 2k if I want to.

James... The Spring Drive does not do one second per day.
I know Seiko claims that.
Truth is that it does LESS THAN A SECOND PER MONTH!!!

And here is a movie I took of it with a camera phone.

Click Here For Movie

[Gedanken]

A second a month? That's some serious drool factor, Chip!

I just did a bit of looking up on the Spring Drive models, and this SBDB001 is one badass piece of work - it's even got a GMT hand:

[SLRdude]

That's a MONSTER!
And it costs about 5K USD.

It's one mean looking mother!

[Gedanken]

5 grand? The sites I've been able to find on it seem to indicate that it's closer to 3 grand, or is that after discount?

My biggest question about Spring Drive at the moment is about the availability of service facilities. I would imagine that the most of the parts could easily be worked on by your average watchmaker, but what about the glide wheel?

[SLRdude]

I just looked for the diver, and you are right... I was able to find one for about 3400 or so.
Not a lot of them out there though.
I also found one like mine but in black for 2900 or so.

Those Spring Drive are very rare, especially considering that only 5 people are building them. The signature of the worker that made your watch is included with the paper work, in a Thank You note. Real signature. Not a printed one.

As far as service... I am sure that a company as large as Seiko will always have a way to work on it. They have a very good reputation in that department.

On the other hand, this watch has absolutely no back and forth movement in the escapement, so theoretically it should last a lot longer. I believe Seiko suggests a check up every ten years or so.

[timebroker]

Originally Posted by comatox

I just looked for the diver, and you are right... I was able to find one for about 3400 or so.
Not a lot of them out there though.
I also found one like mine but in black for 2900 or so.

Those Spring Drive are very rare, especially considering that only 5 people are building them. The signature of the worker that made your watch is included with the paper work, in a Thank You note. Real signature. Not a printed one.

As far as service... I am sure that a company as large as Seiko will always have a way to work on it. They have a very good reputation in that department.

On the other hand, this watch has absolutely no back and forth movement in the escapement, so theoretically it should last a lot longer. I believe Seiko suggests a check up every ten years or so.

Wow, like 2 times longer than any high grade watch company. That's always a good sign

[daunwaun]

I personally like the seiko Watches

[SLRdude]

Watch the video of my watch that I have posted above.
It was taken with a camera phone so it is kinda crappy, but you have to see the second hand to believe it. 100% smooth non stop motion.

Another thing about that Seiko is that it's probably the first watch I have worn that is not influenced at all by it's position or temperature.
You can wear it, or you can let it sit and just wind it every three days, and a month later it will still be within less than a second off from the atomic clock.

[Gedanken]

My understanding of the Spring Drive is that it uses an electromagnetic brake to regulate the speed of the glide wheel to 8 rpm, so there's no hairspring to get messed up by temperature, position or shuck, but what about magnetism? Does Seiko recommend any specific precautions?

[SLRdude]

It actually has a spring, just like any other mechanical watch.
The mechanics of it are almost identical to any standard watch. It has 276 components in the movement (280 in the small hand) and only 5 of those are non mechanical.
Even the Swiss classifies it as a mechanical watch.

The main difference comes from replacing the standard escapement, which by it's back and forth motion controls how many times per second the hand moves. In most cases, on a modern watch, the escapement moves back and fourth about 8 times a second.

In the Spring Drive, a very VERY small percentage of the energy generated by the hairspring (25 nanowatts to be exact) is converted into electricity, which runs through a coil that is thermo compensated and magnetically shielded, which acts like an electromagnetic brake for the glide wheel, regulating it to a perfect 8 per second rotations.

Seiko says that the watch is anti magnetic, anti shock, and water resistant. In my case, 100 meters. For the Prospex Divers, 600 meters.

Here are some more specs from the booklet and the DVD that comes with it.

Spring Drive is an important milestone in the history of watchmaking, and will take its place alongside other developments like the creation of the escapement, the invention of the mainspring and the harnessing of quartz, as defining moments in the story of time. The launch of Spring Drive is a breakthrough moment for the science of timekeeping. Its technological advances are many and varied, as its numerical statistics reveal:



* 0.025 mm. The thickness of each layer of alloy in the coil block.
* 1 second a day accuracy, 10 times better than the chronometer mechanical standard.
* 3 types of energy are controlled by the Tri-synchro regulator: mechanical, electrical and electro-magnetic.
* 5 craftsmen and women. Only Seiko’s 5 most skilled craftsmen and women are entrusted with the assembly of Spring Drive.
* 8 times per second. The precise speed at which the glide wheel turns within the electro-magnetic braking system.
* 13 generations of prototype were built in the development phases.
* 15 microns . The width of the wire in the Tri-synchro regulator’s coil.
* 18 layers of amorphous alloy in the coil block.
* 25 nanowatts. The minute amount of power needed to activate the regulator, less than half that needed in all other watch circuits.
* 28 years of research and development invested in the project.
* 30 percent improvement in winding efficiency achieved through the improved Magic Lever system.
* 30 jewels in the movement. 32 in the small second hand version.
* 72 hours of power reserve.
* 92 years since Seiko built its first wristwatch.
* 124 years of Seiko's expertise in time keeping.
* 230 patents have been applied for in Japan, USA and the EU.
* 276 components in the movement. 280 in the small second hand version.
* 600 actual prototypes were built between 1997 and 2004.
* 25,000. The number of times the coil is wound, for maximum energy efficiency.
* 28,800. The number of times the glide wheel turns per hour.

[Gedanken]

Cool data, Chip!

Yeah, I was aware of the mainspring in the Spring Drive. I was actually referring to the hairspring in the traditional escapement that the Spring Drive has done away with - it ought to be more sensitive to changes in condition compared to the mainspring.

[timebroker]

Originally Posted by Gedanken

Cool data, Chip!

Yeah, I was aware of the mainspring in the Spring Drive. I was actually referring to the hairspring in the traditional escapement that the Spring Drive has done away with - it ought to be more sensitive to changes in condition compared to the mainspring.

Even 500? years of improving the hairspring didn't improve it that much as the Seiko did now?

[Gedanken]

Originally Posted by timebroker

Even 500? years of improving the hairspring didn't improve it that much as the Seiko did now?

Yup. The glide wheel self-corrects in real-time, so if the circuitry spots that the wheel's going too fast, it puts the brakes on to slow it down.

[Incurable]

Originally Posted by nagano21

Hi,

I have recently been HIGHLY interested in fine watches. And have really wanted to acquire a rolex or very nice Tag, but due to being fresh out of College and putting most of my money towards my loans, I abandoned the idea of purchasing one of these watches for now.

I have moved on, and have been considering maybe buying a Citizens or a Seiko. I am just not all that sure on which watch is better. I do like more of a sporty looking watch, preferably with a Chronographic feature, but that is not too important, I just don't want something too simple, and preferably two tone cause I wear mostly gold jewelery.

My next Q is what do you all think is a better brand Tag or Movada, there are a few of these brands I like, and might be able to afford, but obv the two have totally diff. styles. My dream movado is the series 800, but that is def out of my league.

If you guys could possibly answer my two questions I would highly appreciate it. Thanks

Well, it's nice to see the fine art of hijacking and OT-ism is alive and well. Getting back to the poster's original question(s)... Firstly, I think a spring drive is probably a bit out of his budget. If nagano21 could afford $3000-> he could be looking for a used Rolex, right?

As for Seiko vs Citizen, part of that depends on whether you're looking for a quartz or automatic. Seiko has many affordable automatics, Citizen not so much. Citizen models tend to be more busy and therefore, 'impressive' if you're looking to impress or draw attention. Seiko has many models as well, many aimed at the 'sport' crowd, others more elegant. Personally, I'd go Seiko.

If you willing to explore overseas purchasing, check out a couple places like HERE or HERE as they have very large selections of both Seiko and Citizen watches for your viewing pleasure.

Between Movado and Tag, my choice would be Tag. If you're tastes lean towards tool watches, Tag... If you want the aura of 'luxury', Movado may be a better choice. I can't speak to actual 'quality' of either brand. Personally, I'll never buy an expensive quartz watch. Inside (most) is a movement worth multiple tens of dollars (if you're lucky). Ultimately, choosing a watch is a very personal choice. Some of the finest watches in the world don't look like much. Not until you look closely, that is. I wouldn't base my choice on flash. Elegance and class don't have to scream to get your attention. JMHO and good luck...

[timebroker]

Originally Posted by Incurable

Well, it's nice to see the fine art of hijacking and OT-ism is alive and well.

We try we try

[Gedanken]

Speaking of tries, how's the rugby going? Anybody know?

[timebroker]

Originally Posted by Gedanken

Speaking of tries, how's the rugby going? Anybody know?

You should ask Bull he's a big fan it seems